News Guardians of the Galaxy Cosmic Rewind attraction confirmed for Epcot

doctornick

Well-Known Member
According to permits, the retention pond is being expanded in that area. That is all. No insider has ever said anything about plussing the train ride.

Actually, I do remember WDW194 hinting a while ago (back when he was still around here, obviously) that the RR was going to be plussed as part of the 50th plans. People took that to mean some sort of diorama but I don't think he ever went into any details.
 

Missing20K

Well-Known Member
I disagree. I think the best themed environments do very much follow on “form ever follows function,” with the function of the space not being a restaurant or store or ride, but telling the story. Superfluous props and “theming” muddle the story or become a crutch to distract from the lack of a cogent story by assaulting the viewer with quantity. Too many themed environments assume the world is only populated by hoarders.
Fair. I, personally, don't associate "Less is a bore" and Venturi with superfluousness though. Their work was certainly in your face and ostentatious at times, but never without reason. It may have been to hit you over the head with it's intent, but I'd say it was also never muddled. For better or worse.

But to the extent that the function is the story (I'd disagree to an extent here, as there are far more elements in the program of the building than the "show" the guest experiences, particularly with accessibility, life safety, constructability, that also play a part of the function) then sure, I can see the argument for form follows function. However, I think the technical "show" elements of an attraction rarely translate through to the rest of the architecture. The "story" and theme, absolutely, but the physical dimensions of the elements, their materiality and construction, their outright function, perhaps not so much. I'm also not of the belief that "theming" equates directly to the amount of "stuff" reinforcing said theme (I'm pretty sure you agree and we may have misread each other a bit). I think an argument could be made for themed entertainment that the form may not follow function but is an extension of the function (particularly when we refer to function as the "story") and can take on whatever form is needed to best tell the story, i.e. function. I might argue this is a quite loose interpretation of Sullivan's original proclamation. ;)

It's an interesting case because so much of themed entertainment architecture is more decorated shed than duck, generally speaking. And, from a cost standpoint, they really should build pre-engineered structures with pastiche theming, as no guest will ever (or should ever) see an "unthemed" space.
 

cindy_k

Well-Known Member
I think more guests are going to notice this box of largeness in the parks than they do Soarin' because the enormity of the box up front and center when they arrived. When you are in the parking lot it kind of smacks you in the face... with a "Good Gravy What is THAT thing?!"

That first impression almost calls for you to search for it in the sky as you go around the world.. Yep I Can still see it!

With Soarin' its back there but you are never faced with its shear size up front and personal, so you are not as drawn to look for it.
 

ChewbaccaYourMum

Well-Known Member
I bet they made this building so big just so they can finally silence all the people mad about the barely visible Soarin' building. I can imagine the Imagineers like.. "they want something they can see I'LL GIVE EM SOMETHING THEY CAN SEE!"

I can't wait till they clone Crush's Coaster here and place it next to the Seas Pavilion in an even BIGGER show building so they can FINALLY shut up all the people mad about the GOTG building! ;):p
 

KBLovedDisney

Well-Known Member
What if they made the building stand out so much that TDC will one day replace the SSE icon with it? They wouldn't do something so terrible...would they?☹
 

DanielBB8

Well-Known Member
Doing more reading, Sullivan falls on one end of Utilitarianism architecture (Utilitarianism in architecture becomes functionalism, which stresses that the design for a building should be based on its purpose, a principle that many 21st century architectures follow.) Then you have Bauhaus (the Bauhaus house often has flat roofs, smooth façades, and cubic shapes to eliminate any unnecessary decorative details and to maximize utility).

Epcot lacks ornamentation in FW buildings and seem modern with glass and concrete. Disney has to decide what utility the building symbolizes. It could be Energy or Space Travel or both. Maybe they already decided. We just don’t see the endgame yet. Covering it up with stainless steel shingles to match the Energy building will pay homage to its previous incarnation might be sufficient.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Covering it up with stainless steel shingles to match the Energy building will pay homage to its previous incarnation might be sufficient.
Aren’t they covering the building with metal panels already? They are blue or green and I think they are a finished material so unlikely that something gets added on top. The best they can do is plant some trees, but it’s hard to hide a 130ft building. Could help from certain viewing areas.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Fair. I, personally, don't associate "Less is a bore" and Venturi with superfluousness though. Their work was certainly in your face and ostentatious at times, but never without reason. It may have been to hit you over the head with it's intent, but I'd say it was also never muddled. For better or worse.
I do not think Venturi was one who over did it, my comment of superfluous elements was directly related to themed design in the context of themed entertainment.

But to the extent that the function is the story (I'd disagree to an extent here, as there are far more elements in the program of the building than the "show" the guest experiences, particularly with accessibility, life safety, constructability, that also play a part of the function) then sure, I can see the argument for form follows function. However, I think the technical "show" elements of an attraction rarely translate through to the rest of the architecture. The "story" and theme, absolutely, but the physical dimensions of the elements, their materiality and construction, their outright function, perhaps not so much. I'm also not of the belief that "theming" equates directly to the amount of "stuff" reinforcing said theme (I'm pretty sure you agree and we may have misread each other a bit). I think an argument could be made for themed entertainment that the form may not follow function but is an extension of the function (particularly when we refer to function as the "story") and can take on whatever form is needed to best tell the story, i.e. function. I might argue this is a quite loose interpretation of Sullivan's original proclamation. ;)
I think you may be assuming a more narrow definition of 'show' than how I am using the term. I am using it more synonymously with 'story' and 'theme,' all aspects of the intended guest experience from what they see to what they feel. In well executed spaces, the dimensions, materiality and tectonics do all support that experience as much as possible. Yes, something like a Victorian storefront with in-swing doors will likely not be allowed but the elements that can be shaped should be shaped by the story.

Much of The Autobiography of an Idea focuses on emotion as a key, if not the key, function of architecture, and much of themed design is about creating emotion. Story does not seem to be much of a stretch.
 

Missing20K

Well-Known Member
I do not think Venturi was one who over did it, my comment of superfluous elements was directly related to themed design in the context of themed entertainment.
My mistake. I certainly agree in that regard then.

I think you may be assuming a more narrow definition of 'show' than how I am using the term. I am using it more synonymously with 'story' and 'theme,' all aspects of the intended guest experience from what they see to what they feel. In well executed spaces, the dimensions, materiality and tectonics do all support that experience as much as possible. Yes, something like a Victorian storefront with in-swing doors will likely not be allowed but the elements that can be shaped should be shaped by the story.

Much of The Autobiography of an Idea focuses on emotion as a key, if not the key, function of architecture, and much of themed design is about creating emotion. Story does not seem to be much of a stretch.
Perhaps I am. I may have not conveyed my thoughts very well. I was speaking to how the program, in the architectural sense of the word, contains more than simply the guest experience. Aspects of constructability, accessibility, etc., are critical to an adequate architectural design, but are also elements of the architecture the guest does not experience in the same manner as the "show".

To use your storefront example, they may or may not be functional doors, they may or may not have the proper panic hardware or clearances, etc., but they would be used if they are able to convey the story to the guest better than out-swinging aluminum storefront system with closers and panic devices. (EDIT: sorry I think I misunderstood your point on this. But as you said, elements should be shaped by story, but sometimes can't. This reinforces my idea that the architecture of the building and the architecture of the guest experience are linked but not necessarily inextricably so).

I wouldn't ever disagree that having an emotive experience is the pinnacle of great architecture. But in creating great architecture, one must focus on all of the elements needed to have the user experience the space as intended, and safely, which moves beyond those aspects whose goal is only getting the guest (in a themed experience) to emote. AA's add to the story, but aren't crucial to life safety. There are certainly countless egress paths that the typical guest has never, and will never, experience (which is a good thing, unless you're a big architecture nerd like some of us here).

Open plenum, black painted ceilings. This is something the guest shouldn't "experience", or certainly something the designer wouldn't want the guest to notice, but is quite obviously an important and necessary element to the architecture and to the guest experience. Building elements and the architectural design of such, that are "unnoticed" by guests, but still critical to the function of the space, are more about what I was, at least attempting, to speak to, when discussing how "story" is reflected in the architecture. I don't believe we quite saw eye to eye when referring to "story".

As a related aside, finding how they theme or "hide" such things as exit signs, sprinkler heads, HVAC vents, etc., is one of my most favorite past times at the parks, or any themed environment for that matter. Again, architectural elements required by code, but those that which the designer would feel best to avoid drawing attention to, as they can easily break the story. Like the Avoid the Penny lecture you posted (great link, btw, very informative).
 

Missing20K

Well-Known Member
Doing more reading, Sullivan falls on one end of Utilitarianism architecture (Utilitarianism in architecture becomes functionalism, which stresses that the design for a building should be based on its purpose, a principle that many 21st century architectures follow.) Then you have Bauhaus (the Bauhaus house often has flat roofs, smooth façades, and cubic shapes to eliminate any unnecessary decorative details and to maximize utility).

Epcot lacks ornamentation in FW buildings and seem modern with glass and concrete. Disney has to decide what utility the building symbolizes. It could be Energy or Space Travel or both. Maybe they already decided. We just don’t see the endgame yet. Covering it up with stainless steel shingles to match the Energy building will pay homage to its previous incarnation might be sufficient.
The utility in the strictest sense, imo, would be to house a themed environment/attraction.

Now, as @lazyboy97o and I have discussed, there may be differing opinions as to where the line is drawn on the utility of such a structure. Is the utility simply housing an attraction? Or is the utility the entire guest experience? I quite honestly am unsure as to the answer. Some themed environment structures are ducks (SSE, Tree of Life), and some are decorated sheds (HM, all of WS). Some take the guest experience all the way to the full exterior of the structure, some only take it to where the guest could reasonably experience the exterior, leaving backstage areas unthemed.
 

rocketraccoon

Well-Known Member
I bet they made this building so big just so they can finally silence all the people mad about the barely visible Soarin' building. I can imagine the Imagineers like.. "they want something they can see I'LL GIVE EM SOMETHING THEY CAN SEE!"

I can't wait till they clone Crush's Coaster here and place it next to the Seas Pavilion in an even BIGGER show building so they can FINALLY shut up all the people mad about the GOTG building! ;):p
It's genius, really. They keep building bigger and bigger show buildings around the park to wall it in, and then all you need to do is slap a roof on it and boom, you got the original EPCOT except with more coasters.
 

Lensman

Well-Known Member
It seems that a lot of people here don't fully understand the strategy of painting the building sky blue. Most of the posts about the building's impact on sight-lines are treating the color as an unsuccessful attempt at tricking the eyes (i.e. because the color is similar to the sky in the background, guests' eyes won't be able to discern the building when they look at it). This is obviously ridiculous - the building is massive and will never perfectly match the color of the sky. However, that's not how this strategy is meant to work. In actuality, it's meant to play a trick on the brain - your brain is conditioned to expect certain shades of blue in the background, and so it subconsciously filters out things of those colors.

This is a very similar phenomenon to how your brain works in regards to your nose. Whenever your eyes are open, you can technically see your nose, but your brain filters is out so you don't notice it. Of course, when you try to look at your nose, you will see it clearly. That's why anyone looking at the GotG building to determine how much of a monstrosity it is is inherently getting a biased view. The color is meant to prevent guests from intentionally looking at the building, not to prevent them from seeing it when they do. Most guests outside of these forums do not visit the park with the intention of looking at the GotG show building, so the illusion works much better on them. That's not to say that those on here who find the building to be a major obstruction are wrong, but just that they should recognize that they are immune from an illusion that should be quite effective on most guests.
I liked this post a lot and wanted to share these classic examples.
348491

348489


One thing that strikes me about hiding objects in plain sight is that a lot of tricks only work for a few seconds as they take advantage of visual processing shortcuts in our brain. Also, almost all of them will fail in the face of active scanning, as one might do when one is specifically looking for a feature and certainly when one has seen the feature before in the same context and "knows what to look for". And I'll throw in my own hypothesis that if we have a series of strong emotional reactions to the feature, we will over time become sensitized to it and train our brains to recognize the feature faster than your prefrontal cortex could. lol

So in a way, reading this thread and looking at the pictures may be be deleterious to our emotional health. I don't think it'll come to PTSD, but with some of us (hopefully not me), it could ruin the entire WDW experience. /s
 

Incomudro

Well-Known Member
It seems that a lot of people here don't fully understand the strategy of painting the building sky blue. Most of the posts about the building's impact on sight-lines are treating the color as an unsuccessful attempt at tricking the eyes (i.e. because the color is similar to the sky in the background, guests' eyes won't be able to discern the building when they look at it). This is obviously ridiculous - the building is massive and will never perfectly match the color of the sky. However, that's not how this strategy is meant to work. In actuality, it's meant to play a trick on the brain - your brain is conditioned to expect certain shades of blue in the background, and so it subconsciously filters out things of those colors.

This is a very similar phenomenon to how your brain works in regards to your nose. Whenever your eyes are open, you can technically see your nose, but your brain filters is out so you don't notice it. Of course, when you try to look at your nose, you will see it clearly. That's why anyone looking at the GotG building to determine how much of a monstrosity it is is inherently getting a biased view. The color is meant to prevent guests from intentionally looking at the building, not to prevent them from seeing it when they do. Most guests outside of these forums do not visit the park with the intention of looking at the GotG show building, so the illusion works much better on them. That's not to say that those on here who find the building to be a major obstruction are wrong, but just that they should recognize that they are immune from an illusion that should be quite effective on most guests.

Yes, the ride building is meant to be tuned out of the show scenes by guests.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
I liked this post a lot and wanted to share these classic examples.
View attachment 348491
View attachment 348489

One thing that strikes me about hiding objects in plain sight is that a lot of tricks only work for a few seconds as they take advantage of visual processing shortcuts in our brain. Also, almost all of them will fail in the face of active scanning, as one might do when one is specifically looking for a feature and certainly when one has seen the feature before in the same context and "knows what to look for". And I'll throw in my own hypothesis that if we have a series of strong emotional reactions to the feature, we will over time become sensitized to it and train our brains to recognize the feature faster than your prefrontal cortex could. lol

So in a way, reading this thread and looking at the pictures may be be deleterious to our emotional health. I don't think it'll come to PTSD, but with some of us (hopefully not me), it could ruin the entire WDW experience. /s

Why is the car in the intersection on the left side of the road? This is 'Merica!
 

OG Runner

Well-Known Member
Hi All, I am really bad with computers, so I do not have a link, but I watched a YouTube video, by Midway Mayhem.
It said it was in reference to the construction of Universal's 4th Park. They took video from a rather high vantage point
in Orlando. (long story, even longer) From the vantage point you could see into Universal, Space Mountain and the
Contemporary at Disney, and then Spaceship Earth and the GotG show building. You really get a new prespective
of how big that building looks, even from a distance.
 

Bob Harlem

Well-Known Member
Hi All, I am really bad with computers, so I do not have a link, but I watched a YouTube video, by Midway Mayhem.
It said it was in reference to the construction of Universal's 4th Park. They took video from a rather high vantage point
in Orlando. (long story, even longer) From the vantage point you could see into Universal, Space Mountain and the
Contemporary at Disney, and then Spaceship Earth and the GotG show building. You really get a new prespective
of how big that building looks, even from a distance.
This?
348742

From
 

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