Grand Floridian Villas - semi confirmed?

[awilliams4]

Walt Disney World isn't a museum but it isnt supposed to be some timeshare slum either. The whole "not a museum" thing is such a dumb blanket statement to justify every single thing disney does even if its bad. That quote should be used to defend POSTIVE upgrades to the resort like Star Tours II and the reinvestment into downtown disney and not to ruining the beautiful look of the area with more timeshares buildings.

Darn it! Slum, that was the word I was looking for to describe our ownership in our vacation homes at WDW. That's right, they are slums!

Geez, does it make you feel better to bash on them because you can't stay in them?

 

[puntagordabob]

If they match, it would be the same as the expansions they have done previously except the way that the units are classified. WDW is not a museum or historic site, it will be expanded.

I have created a mockup for adding a dvc area to poly, and like what disney would create, it matched the theme. disney isn't going to just plop a 4 story hotel building that does not fit.

Never going to happen like that.... would destroy the view of the resort.....

 

[RandySavage]

Geez, does it make you feel better to bash on them because you can't stay in them?

The concern is Seven Seas Lagoon &/or Bay Lake getting over-developed, ringed with resort buildings, standing shoulder to shoulder. The argument being made is that the MK resort area is far more attractive with plenty of separation between the hotels and wide, natural vistas. This helps sell the feeling that you are in some place special, extraordinary: the South Seas or a western national park or the early 20th C. Floridian coast before it was covered in mid-rise condo blocks.

It's a compelling argument (anti-overdevelopment, view preservation, greenfields), particularly if you are a DVC owner.

 

[_Scar]

The concern is Seven Seas Lagoon &/or Bay Lake getting over-developed, ringed with resort buildings, standing shoulder to shoulder. The argument being made is that the MK resort area is far more attractive with plenty of separation between the hotels and wide, natural vistas. This helps sell the feeling that you are in some place special, extraordinary: the South Seas or a western national park or the early 20th C. Floridian coast before it was covered in mid-rise condo blocks.

It's a compelling argument (anti-overdevelopment, view preservation, greenfields), particularly if you are a DVC owner.

Shwat?

So GF/Contemporary/Poly are high rises? Contemporary, I get... but it's classic. But seriously? High rises? I wouldn't go to that extreme. BTW, villas are 10x nicer than standard rooms. And the added DVC units at BCV, VWL, BWV, etc only add to the experience. Most likely if you were staying at the original then you'd never realize there was DVC there anyways. This is all imo of course.

 

[RandySavage]

Shwat?

So GF/Contemporary/Poly are high rises? Contemporary, I get... but it's classic. But seriously? High rises? I wouldn't go to that extreme. BTW, villas are 10x nicer than standard rooms. And the added DVC units at BCV, VWL, BWV, etc only add to the experience. Most likely if you were staying at the original then you'd never realize there was DVC there anyways. This is all imo of course.

Not sure where in my post you think I referred to the MK hotels as being high-rises (I mentioned pre-midrise coastal Florida with respect to the GF because that's the theme the hotel is trying to evoke, whereas a view of BayLakeTower (or even the Contemp, to be fair) is more representational of a post-modern, mid-rise coastal condo... so there is that).

But low-rise, mid-rise or high-rise, my point is the same: the whole area is more valuable aesthetically (IMO) to DVC owners, visitors, everyone, if it's not overcrowded with hotels built on top of each other. It may not be there yet, but I imagine the near future (next 15 years) will see a 2nd Bay Lake Tower over the other wing, as well as the rumored Grand Floridian, River Country and Poly DVCs... maybe another hotel (with DVC) on Bay Lake, the Four Seasons hotel and Golden Oak homes going up behind Bay Lake (thankfully not on its shores). One can't know without seeing, but the potential is there to significantly alter (diminish in my view) the natural and built environment, vistas, etc. of the Seven Seas Lagoon and Bay Lake areas.

 

[SeaCastle]

Not sure where in my post you think I referred to the MK hotels as being high-rises (I mentioned pre-midrise coastal Florida with respect to the GF because that's the theme the hotel is trying to evoke, whereas a view of BayLakeTower (or even the Contemp, to be fair) is more representational of a post-modern, mid-rise coastal condo... so there is that).

But low-rise, mid-rise or high-rise, my point is the same: the whole area is more valuable aesthetically (IMO) to DVC owners, visitors, everyone, if it's not overcrowded with hotels built on top of each other (i.e., the wedding pavilion encroaching on what was a more secluded beach at the Poly (as visible in Flavious' sat photo).

While I agree, let's not forget that if the original WDW planners had their way, sightlines would be just as crowded as they are now. Remember that the Poly was supposed to be a high rise, as well as the Venetian Resort. Let's not forget the "Kingdom Towers" that were planned for the plot of land in front of the Contemporary.

 

[RandySavage]

While I agree, let's not forget that if the original WDW planners had their way, sightlines would be just as crowded as they are now. Remember that the Poly was supposed to be a high rise, as well as the Venetian Resort. Let's not forget the "Kingdom Towers" that were planned for the plot of land in front of the Contemporary.

You're right... and there are a number of things that turned out differently from Walt's (and others) original designs that I think were for the better. For example, I like the original EPCOT Center - the theme park. Not sure if I'd be as compelled by a 1970s-style "progress city" with actual residents and all the things they need like commercial and retail facilities, albeit connected with peoplemovers. It was Walt's passion to leave the world with his vision to fixing urban problems, but his EPCOT didn't really have anything to do with vacation or recreation (other than for its residents). After Walt's death, I think management (rightly) understood that people go to WDW to vacation, be entertained, to learn, to escape, and they took the theme park route with EPCOT.

I also think the more WDW develops, the more it looks and feels like the rest of Orlando/America. I believe Walt wanted to develop the vast majority of the land, but that was a different, less crowded time in our history. Today, I think there is great value in limiting development and preserving more green-acres, investing in monorail or PRT lines, etc. Essentially, the Kiawah Island model vs. general sprawl model. If building and building all around WDW goes too far (some (me) say it already has), it is akin to poisoning the well.

My opinion.

 

[lazyboy97o]

While I agree, let's not forget that if the original WDW planners had their way, sightlines would be just as crowded as they are now. Remember that the Poly was supposed to be a high rise, as well as the Venetian Resort. Let's not forget the "Kingdom Towers" that were planned for the plot of land in front of the Contemporary.

Planned at a different time under very different circumstances. Aside from the EPCOT Hotel, planning a hotel elsewhere on property, especially a themed hotel, would have raised considerable doubts about the seriousness to which Disney was actually pursuing EPCOT. While it eventually became a non-issue, the powers granted to Disney through the Reedy Creek Improvement District were considered to be quite considerable and controversial.

 

[flavious27]

Walt Disney World isn't a museum but it isnt supposed to be some timeshare slum either. The whole "not a museum" thing is such a dumb blanket statement to justify every single thing disney does even if its bad. That quote should be used to defend POSTIVE upgrades to the resort like Star Tours II and the reinvestment into downtown disney and not to ruining the beautiful look of the area with more timeshares buildings.

I'll disregard the statement that seed and mulch is a positive upgrade, but the look that we love of the seven seas lagoon is due to disney building that lake and the buildings and the grounds. If more buildings are built and they match, nothing is lost nor will it be any different than more hotel units being added. Now if disney added a copy of Aulani, that would be different because it does not match what is already in place.

 

[flavious27]

Never going to happen like that.... would destroy the view of the resort.....

well it is why is a mockup. stilt houses fit into the look of poly, but there would need to be a bunch of work for it to work.

the problem and why it is unlikely that we will see dvc units at poly is the lack of land. the only way there will be dvc units is if disney just converts a few of the buildings into dvc units.

 

[flavious27]

Not sure where in my post you think I referred to the MK hotels as being high-rises (I mentioned pre-midrise coastal Florida with respect to the GF because that's the theme the hotel is trying to evoke, whereas a view of BayLakeTower (or even the Contemp, to be fair) is more representational of a post-modern, mid-rise coastal condo... so there is that).

But low-rise, mid-rise or high-rise, my point is the same: the whole area is more valuable aesthetically (IMO) to DVC owners, visitors, everyone, if it's not overcrowded with hotels built on top of each other. It may not be there yet, but I imagine the near future (next 15 years) will see a 2nd Bay Lake Tower over the other wing, as well as the rumored Grand Floridian, River Country and Poly DVCs... maybe another hotel (with DVC) on Bay Lake, the Four Seasons hotel and Golden Oak homes going up behind Bay Lake (thankfully not on its shores). One can't know without seeing, but the potential is there to significantly alter (diminish in my view) the natural and built environment, vistas, etc. of the Seven Seas Lagoon and Bay Lake areas.

I don't really see a resort with a new theme being added to bay lake. Yes we can see another wilderness hotel/dvc added, but it fits and is existing. I see disney adding a larger south wing, but not another dvc tower. As for the northern portion of the shoreline, disney really can't get a road out to that area, practically anyway.

 

[googilycub]

Darn it! Slum, that was the word I was looking for to describe our ownership in our vacation homes at WDW. That's right, they are slums!

Geez, does it make you feel better to bash on them because you can't stay in them?

I think you you nailed it with that comment. I wonder if the same poster would refer to it as "resort slum" if Disney decided to add a regular resort building to the Grand Floridian.......:animwink:

 

[MarkTwain]

The concern is Seven Seas Lagoon &/or Bay Lake getting over-developed, ringed with resort buildings, standing shoulder to shoulder. The argument being made is that the MK resort area is far more attractive with plenty of separation between the hotels and wide, natural vistas. This helps sell the feeling that you are in some place special, extraordinary: the South Seas or a western national park or the early 20th C. Floridian coast before it was covered in mid-rise condo blocks.

It's a compelling argument (anti-overdevelopment, view preservation, greenfields), particularly if you are a DVC owner.

Excellently put. The Seven Seas Lagoon presently has a beautiful skyline, which somehow arranges three very different themes (Polynesian, Modern, Victorian) side-by-side in a visually pleasing and coherent fashion. But it works because of the large buffer areas in between, the expanses of landscaping and beach which let you mentally transition from one theme to the other - whether you're walking from one hotel to the other, riding a monorail, or simply looking out at them from the other side of the lagoon.

But with Bay Lake Tower and now the imminent likelihood of the Grand Floridian Villas, those buffer areas are being filled in with the same solid, continuous development you see driving through Orlando. But unlike the individual owners of all the individual plots of land in Orlando, Disney controls the entirety of the property, and they should have the sense to know how to use it smartly.

Anyone who's ridden the monorail at nighttime from one hotel to the next surely knows what I'm talking about. There's no feeling quite like taking the monorail from the bright lights of one hotel to over the dark expanses of dense growth and landscaping beneath you for several minutes, with the opportunity to admire the quiet nature (nature! in Orlando!!) and to look out at the lagoon with an unobstructed view, before that wonderful feeling of being engulfed in the bright lights and rich theming of a completely different hotel. How would that same monorail ride feel if you were just surrounded by solid development the whole time? Because that's what we're approaching...

I'm a proud DVC member. It's only because of DVC I can go to WDW as often as twice a year. Between family members owning in the Boardwalk, Wilderness Lodge, and Saratoga Springs, we own some 500+ points in DVC, But I'm also a designer, who cares a lot about architecture and design as a whole, and particularly in Imagineering. And it saddens me to see 30+ years of smart, inspired, and very careful land development being cheapened by what's obviously a simple cash grab.

 

[PhilharMagician]

Excellently put. The Seven Seas Lagoon presently has a beautiful skyline, which somehow arranges three very different themes (Polynesian, Modern, Victorian) side-by-side in a visually pleasing and coherent fashion. But it works because of the large buffer areas in between, the expanses of landscaping and beach which let you mentally transition from one theme to the other - whether you're walking from one hotel to the other, riding a monorail, or simply looking out at them from the other side of the lagoon.

But with Bay Lake Tower and now the imminent likelihood of the Grand Floridian Villas, those buffer areas are being filled in with the same solid, continuous development you see driving through Orlando. But unlike the individual owners of all the individual plots of land in Orlando, Disney controls the entirety of the property, and they should have the sense to know how to use it smartly.

Anyone who's ridden the monorail at nighttime from one hotel to the next surely knows what I'm talking about. There's no feeling quite like taking the monorail from the bright lights of one hotel to over the dark expanses of dense growth and landscaping beneath you for several minutes, with the opportunity to admire the quiet nature (nature! in Orlando!!) and to look out at the lagoon with an unobstructed view, before that wonderful feeling of being engulfed in the bright lights and rich theming of a completely different hotel. How would that same monorail ride feel if you were just surrounded by solid development the whole time? Because that's what we're approaching...

I'm a proud DVC member. It's only because of DVC I can go to WDW as often as twice a year. Between family members owning in the Boardwalk, Wilderness Lodge, and Saratoga Springs, we own some 500+ points in DVC, But I'm also a designer, who cares a lot about architecture and design as a whole, and particularly in Imagineering. And it saddens me to see 30+ years of smart, inspired, and very careful land development being cheapened by what's obviously a simple cash grab.

There was other much larger devlopement scheduled to happen around the Seven Seas Lagoon and Bay Lake. These projects go back to the original expansion plans of the resort and were cancelled for various reasons. These go way back before the "simple cash grab" years.

DVC is a good product and it sells. Expect it to be expanded into the Poly sometime in the future and most likely FW area. I would just hope the future resort expansions (including the GF) blend in without compromising the theme.

I cannot say if I like it or not until I see the finished product. It is impossible to draw a conclusion on what this will look like with the info that we have seen. Location of it? Yes, if nothing changes.

I also feel that there is not enough transition between resorts now. The worst in my opinion is the Poly. This resort is touching the TTC and you go from concrete and bright lghts to torches in the blink of an eye. I have always thought that the Contemporarey and Poly should have had their locations switched. The Poly would have felt more like a Polynesian island with water surrounding 3 sides and being isolated where the CR sits now. The CR sitting where the Poly is now could have tied theme wise better with the TTC. :shrug:

 

[jwm]

As everyone probably knows, the Seven Seas lagoon was originally conceived to have a ring of resorts as well as some on Bay Lake. The site for the Grand Floridian was originally planned to be an 'Asian' resort. The Contemporary and BLT area was originally theme as the 'Tempo Bay' resort. North of BLT near the monorail shops would have be 'Persian'. Finally, the piece of land due west of the present Wilderness lodge resort that juts out into Seven Seas Lagoon would be Venice.

From what little I have read, the plan for Seven Seas was similar in thought to the execution of the World Showcase. Different cultures all visible around the lake for all to see.

In addition, there were rumors that after the GFV project is well into development and sales, a two-stage Poly DVC addition is being explored. First, the addition of a few smaller buildings being added between the Tuvalu building and the GF wedding chapel. Next, a series of elevated 'huts' on stilts in the water off of Tahiti and near the ferry dock. Anyone who has taken the Staten Island ferry knows the potential here but I still think that these huts would be the best villas on property.

I say, go ahead, add the new locations. The additional revenue stream could theoretically allow for more moderately priced rooms within the WDW resort. In addition, I think that the Venice Resort, with monorail, and the Rialto Bridge connecting the resort to an entertainment district on the island in Seven Sea lagoon would be killer.

 

[jwm]

Sorry, I just realized that I missed a post with some info that I just duplicated.