Grand Avenue and Baseline Tap House

[Phicinfan]

Sounds like they are trying to make this area(grand ave) the DHS version of main street. I doubt it means the end of Muppets though.

 

[rocketraccoon]

The Muppets related theming on Pizza Rizzo is very light so the theming could easily be removed.

It'd be a shame to lose that great neon, though.

 

[MisterPenguin]

See here and following for following Grand Ave construction: http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...ch-no-longer-demo.914974/page-57#post-7858045

 

[YodaMan]

All I know is it doesn't bode well for the Muppets. How did we go from a new restaurant at Studios and a new show at MK and the return of Labs at Epcot all around the same month last year, to removing "Muppets Courtyard" from the map by the end of this year? And if anything, the change is interesting about future expansions. It makes sense having all off the Hollywood/CA-themed things near the entrance (like Echo Lake, Sunset, and Hollywood Boulevard), but having Muppets Courtyard go away and be part of the Grand section means there's a weird gap on the map going forward. And if Indy/Star Tours is the next expansion area for a themed land, Grand Ave will feel even more out of place. I really wish they'd gone full-blown Muppets with the whole area and keep with the IP-driven land idea of SWGE and TSL.

 

[JohnD]

All I know is it doesn't bode well for the Muppets. How did we go from a new restaurant at Studios and a new show at MK and the return of Labs at Epcot all around the same month last year, to removing "Muppets Courtyard" from the map by the end of this year? And if anything, the change is interesting about future expansions. It makes sense having all off the Hollywood/CA-themed things near the entrance (like Echo Lake, Sunset, and Hollywood Boulevard), but having Muppets Courtyard go away and be part of the Grand section means there's a weird gap on the map going forward. And if Indy/Star Tours is the next expansion area for a themed land, Grand Ave will feel even more out of place. I really wish they'd gone full-blown Muppets with the whole area and keep with the IP-driven land idea of SWGE and TSL.

If that's the case, why bother with retheming Pizza Planet to PizzeRizzo? Why didn't they re-theme it to Grand Park Pies or something if The Muppets were going the way of UoE?

 

[MisterPenguin]

All I know is it doesn't bode well for the Muppets. How did we go from a new restaurant at Studios and a new show at MK and the return of Labs at Epcot all around the same month last year, to removing "Muppets Courtyard" from the map by the end of this year? And if anything, the change is interesting about future expansions. It makes sense having all off the Hollywood/CA-themed things near the entrance (like Echo Lake, Sunset, and Hollywood Boulevard), but having Muppets Courtyard go away and be part of the Grand section means there's a weird gap on the map going forward. And if Indy/Star Tours is the next expansion area for a themed land, Grand Ave will feel even more out of place. I really wish they'd gone full-blown Muppets with the whole area and keep with the IP-driven land idea of SWGE and TSL.

Well, "Muppets Courtyard" only became a thing last year. So, it's not like a great legacy has been removed.

Yes, the new sign on MV3D looks like it can have its letters changed quickly to make way for something temporary (movie previews) or even permanent. However, those aren't removable letters... they're bolted in. And God help WDW if they replace MV3D with just movie previews... that would be one less real attraction in a dearth of attractions.

I'm loathe to mention it since it's a Jim Hill rumor, but there's supposedly a plan for a Muppets streetmosphere to entertain guests queuing for SW:GE.

If WDW has some secret plan to replace the Muppets, then it would have to be something that fits with the new Grand Avenue theming. But what IP would fit with that? Certainly not an expansion of Indy.

This is all tea leaves reading, but, for everything that's a sign that the Muppets are in danger, there's another sign saying they aren't.

 

[JohnD]

Well, "Muppets Courtyard" only became a thing last year. So, it's not like a great legacy has been removed.

Yes, the new sign on MV3D looks like it can have its letters changed quickly to make way for something temporary (movie previews) or even permanent. However, those aren't removable letters... they're bolted in. And God help WDW if they replace MV3D with just movie previews... that would be one less real attraction in a dearth of attractions.

I'm loathe to mention it since it's a Jim Hill rumor, but there's supposedly a plan for a Muppets streetmosphere to entertain guests queuing for SW:GE.

If WDW has some secret plan to replace the Muppets, then it would have to be something that fits with the new Grand Avenue theming. But what IP would fit with that? Certainly not an expansion of Indy.

This is all tea leaves reading, but, for everything that's a sign that the Muppets are in danger, there's another sign saying they aren't.

Considering that the Muppets Theater is in LA, and Grand Avenue is in LA, the perfect IP is . .. wait for it. . . . The Muppets: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1204342/synopsis?ref_=ttpl_pl_syn

 

[YodaMan]

If that's the case, why bother with retheming Pizza Planet to PizzeRizzo? Why didn't they re-theme it to Grand Park Pies or something if The Muppets were going the way of UoE?

I imagine something has shifted. When Pizza Planet was closed, the Muppets still had their show on ABC. And the permit for PizzeRizzo would have allowed them to re-theme Mama Melrose as well. And at least one insider mentioned that there were at least some discussions of adding a Muppets flat-ride to the Courtyard.

But then the show got cancelled while PizzeRizzo was being worked on. And the restaurant ended up far more lightly-themed than most of us had expected (and had been lead to believe based on some press releases). And now it's almost two years later and what was supposed to be a Muppet-centric area of the park is instead becoming a large DTLA section with just a Muppets film and a restaurant that can't remove all traces of Muppets by taking framed pictures off of a wall.

 

[FerretAfros]

I know that Disney just spent a bunch of money turning Pizza Planet into PizzaRizzo, but does this mean that the Muppet's have a limited future in what will be known as Grand Park?

The "Muppets Courtyard" branding was always a temporary placeholder during construction; they're just tying up loose ends at this point. That area had previously been considered part of Streets of America, but with SOA's removal it became a vestigial land with no connection to its surroundings. Muppets Courtyard gave it a title to use on park maps until it could be reconnected with the remainder of the park in a meaningful way.

The trouble with using Muppets as a theme for a land is similar to the problem of using Marvel characters for a land: the best theme park lands evoke distinct eras and locations, while these stories are character-based and can take place in virtually any setting. The Muppets can exist in a big city, small town, tropical island, historical era, or outer space; it's the characters and their interactions that make their media interesting, and it's those same elements that just don't translate to a built environment.

As a result, Muppets Courtyard was no more about the Muppets than the previous back-of-SOA "land", and all references to the characters were merely decorations applied on the surface of the underlying setting, however vague that setting may be. Muppets isn't a theme, it's a brand. In practice, the Muppets Courtyard really isn't any more or less about the Muppets than it was prior to the renaming.

The area known as Muppets Courtyard was always too insignificant to be a land of its own. It only has two restaurants and a nearly 30 year old 3D movie, tenuously tied together by the most superficial of "themes". Heck, several World Showcase pavilions are more fully realized (though smaller square footage) than the Courtyard area on its own, and have a much stronger sense of place. Reconnecting it with the remnants of Streets of America should put more "there" there, and will also alleviate the awkward crowdflow issues in/out of the plaza that have existed since it first opened

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

You have to wonder what the Henson family is trying to do for their Father's Legacy with Disney. It's like they just continue to push it further out that it won't be a big existance in the parks 5-10 more years down the road....

 

[Amidala]

The "Muppets Courtyard" branding was always a temporary placeholder during construction; they're just tying up loose ends at this point. That area had previously been considered part of Streets of America, but with SOA's removal it became a vestigial land with no connection to its surroundings. Muppets Courtyard gave it a title to use on park maps until it could be reconnected with the remainder of the park in a meaningful way.

The trouble with using Muppets as a theme for a land is similar to the problem of using Marvel characters for a land: the best theme park lands evoke distinct eras and locations, while these stories are character-based and can take place in virtually any setting. The Muppets can exist in a big city, small town, tropical island, historical era, or outer space; it's the characters and their interactions that make their media interesting, and it's those same elements that just don't translate to a built environment.

As a result, Muppets Courtyard was no more about the Muppets than the previous back-of-SOA "land", and all references to the characters were merely decorations applied on the surface of the underlying setting, however vague that setting may be. Muppets isn't a theme, it's a brand. In practice, the Muppets Courtyard really isn't any more or less about the Muppets than it was prior to the renaming.

The area known as Muppets Courtyard was always too insignificant to be a land of its own. It only has two restaurants and a nearly 30 year old 3D movie, tenuously tied together by the most superficial of "themes". Heck, several World Showcase pavilions are more fully realized (though smaller square footage) than the Courtyard area on its own, and have a much stronger sense of place. Reconnecting it with the remnants of Streets of America should put more "there" there, and will also alleviate the awkward crowdflow issues in/out of the plaza that have existed since it first opened

I completely agree w/ all of this and think a lot of us would–I'm just concerned that the presence of the Muppets at DHS (and WDW in general) may lapse after this area gets rethemed. I know we're shaky in general on Hill's predictions, but I'm really hoping he's right about the Muppets performing some kind of show on Grand Avenue (a la Great Moments in History) whether it's about SW:GE or not. It's not a huge $$$ or space commitment and as people have said, it's already been proven over at MK that people really enjoy these kinds of shows, and will stop to watch. If not that, then maybe some very light Muppet "easter eggs" will be planted throughout this area (?) Who knows

 

[Fox&Hound]

The "Muppets Courtyard" branding was always a temporary placeholder during construction; they're just tying up loose ends at this point. That area had previously been considered part of Streets of America, but with SOA's removal it became a vestigial land with no connection to its surroundings. Muppets Courtyard gave it a title to use on park maps until it could be reconnected with the remainder of the park in a meaningful way.

The trouble with using Muppets as a theme for a land is similar to the problem of using Marvel characters for a land: the best theme park lands evoke distinct eras and locations, while these stories are character-based and can take place in virtually any setting. The Muppets can exist in a big city, small town, tropical island, historical era, or outer space; it's the characters and their interactions that make their media interesting, and it's those same elements that just don't translate to a built environment.

As a result, Muppets Courtyard was no more about the Muppets than the previous back-of-SOA "land", and all references to the characters were merely decorations applied on the surface of the underlying setting, however vague that setting may be. Muppets isn't a theme, it's a brand. In practice, the Muppets Courtyard really isn't any more or less about the Muppets than it was prior to the renaming.

The area known as Muppets Courtyard was always too insignificant to be a land of its own. It only has two restaurants and a nearly 30 year old 3D movie, tenuously tied together by the most superficial of "themes". Heck, several World Showcase pavilions are more fully realized (though smaller square footage) than the Courtyard area on its own, and have a much stronger sense of place. Reconnecting it with the remnants of Streets of America should put more "there" there, and will also alleviate the awkward crowdflow issues in/out of the plaza that have existed since it first opened

Very well stated! Good points...

 

[ABQ]

21st Amendment (Fireside Chat!)
Sierra Nevada (Otra Vez!)
Anderson Valley (Blood Orange Gose!)
The Bruery
Anchor
AleSmith

Just a small sampling of beers that have at least a bottle presence on the East Coast.

I'd be happy to see any of these represented with a tap handle.

Speaking of bottle presences on the East Coast, DC will get something even more soon from The Bruery. http://www.thebruery.com/the-bruery-dc/

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Somehow I missed all the Grand Ave news until now. I love Los Angeles but themeing anything to contemporary, "revitalized" DTLA is one step removed from the beige soundstages of yore in terms of dullness. Maybe there will be a walkthrough attraction of tech offices and unaffordable condos. But since there won't be much else to do at DHS for a few years, I'm happy to kill a few hours at a craft beer bar.

Somebody should've said this at some point in the decision making process.

Overpriced trendy drinks in a revitalised post-industrial hipster liar. It's all very hip and trendy and what every contemporary designer copies from all the others, but what has any of this got to do with a theme park?

 

[WDWtraveler]

Photo update as of Thursday, August 17. Unless I missed a previous post, the last construction scrim has been removed around the Tap House. Work progresses on windows and doors in nearby buildings.

 

[aladdin2007]

Somebody should've said this at some point in the decision making process.

Overpriced trendy drinks in a revitalised post-industrial hipster liar. It's all very hip and trendy and what every contemporary designer copies from all the others, but what has any of this got to do with a theme park?

THIS, all of it is just completely uninspiring.

 

[DisneyJayL]

Well, at least The muppets isn't leaving.

 

[c-one]

"Guests will soon see facades for “merchants” appearing in this area for a music shop, loft apartments, a tailor and more, with each window on the street featuring charming displays."

Good lord. I hope the loft apartment one has too-large banners with generic stock photos of attractive young white people, like any good condo opening would.

 

[roj2323]

I'll post this in this thread as well to help people visualize just what they have planned.

 

[PizzaPlanet]

The fact that they specifically stated MV3D is staying put in the blog post makes me confident it isn't going anywhere. Grand Avenue was the plan all along, with Muppets Courtyard being a temporary name until the new street was finished. Don't forget that Muppet*Vision resided in the generically named "New York Street/Streets of America" for almost 25 years.