News Gotta Pay2Play: Paid FP on the way!

[lazyboy97o]

You're going to explain what you mean better than this. What exactly is 'adequate capacity in line'? Are you saying they should close lines when they reach a certain number of people in them?

There are industry norms that determine park capacity based on attendance. Disney has chosen to increase crowding instead of increasing capacity. Disney also operates by reducing existing capacity to maintain a greater level of crowding on lower attendance days.

 

[marni1971]

There are industry norms that determine park capacity based on attendance. Disney has chosen to increase crowding instead of increasing capacity. Disney also operates by reducing existing capacity to maintain a greater level of crowding on lower attendance days.

This.

Add in the original Pressler era Fastpass number one remit that FP would mean less guests in line.

And we know how that went.

 

[andysol]

You're going to explain what you mean better than this. What exactly is 'adequate capacity in line'? Are you saying they should close lines when they reach a certain number of people in them?

He means that with Fastpass and MDE, that Disney artificially inflates lines and wait times via crowd sourcing and crowd control.

Example- go to BTM in July first thing in the morning and see when they open the other side. Same with multiple rides, dumbo, safari, Soarin, dinosaur, etc. They’ll keep only one side running for hours. 20, 30 minute lines- just one side. Only when they predict it “worthy” of a certain wait time do they open the other. So if they are expecting crowds to increase at BTM by 10:30am that will swell the wait time to an hour, they’ll only run one side until then. Whereas before, they would run both sides and you could just walk on or have a 15 min wait instead of 30.

That was a very rudimentary explanation, and it’s way more complicated than that- but essentially that applies to everything. That’s why WDW doesn’t have “slow times” anymore like it used to. Is it because of crowds? No. Attendance has gone down, while revenue goes up, and profit has doubled revenue growth. Less people, paying more, and disney running more efficiently. Iger has even said that’s the goal.

As a shareholder, it’s great. No park gets close to being able to manage crowds like Disney can. In Disney’s eyes, MDE/FP is a resounding success- the numbers don’t lie. The crowd sourcing is invaluable.

But in reality, for our experiences as regular guests, it certainly hurts.

 

[BoarderPhreak]

How to deal with overcrowding? Forget reigning in AP or increasing ticket prices.

Every WDW resort guest gets in. Allow X amount of outsiders in before closing the gates. The problem is, you need to keep a close count of people coming and going (though they kind of already do this).

 

[Tinkwings]

I will always prefer the old fastpass system which allowed me multiple fastpasses for my favorite rides, sure it took more footwork but we loved it. Would I pay for more fastpasses now that I am limited? Maybe, IF my Disney Reward Dollar balance was such that I used that I would not think on it much. And how great would that be when DHS has all their new lands and rides in place? I would prefer them allowing more fastpasses period to ALL. I can see using it one day at the MK, but sounds like you are required to purchase multiple? And I second the per family member fee is a bit ridiculous.....during the Million Dreams promo castmembers walked up to us and gave US free fastpasses good for any ride....now THAT is something that felt truly magical and was deeply appreciated. Pay to play? We ARE paying to play.....

 

[matt9112]

Not surprised at all.

I could see them keeping this to just Club Level guests. I'm not sure how much capacity they have to start offering it to everyone.

just means less fastpassess for regular folks if they cared about capacity fast pass + would never have been a thing lol.

 

[xdan0920]

He means that with Fastpass and MDE, that Disney artificially inflates lines and wait times via crowd sourcing and crowd control.

Example- go to BTM in July first thing in the morning and see when they open the other side. Same with multiple rides, dumbo, safari, Soarin, dinosaur, etc. They’ll keep only one side running for hours. 20, 30 minute lines- just one side. Only when they predict it “worthy” of a certain wait time do they open the other. So if they are expecting crowds to increase at BTM by 10:30am that will swell the wait time to an hour, they’ll only run one side until then. Whereas before, they would run both sides and you could just walk on or have a 15 min wait instead of 30.

That was a very rudimentary explanation, and it’s way more complicated than that- but essentially that applies to everything. That’s why WDW doesn’t have “slow times” anymore like it used to. Is it because of crowds? No. Attendance has gone down, while revenue goes up, and profit has doubled revenue growth. Less people, paying more, and disney running more efficiently. Iger has even said that’s the goal.

As a shareholder, it’s great. No park gets close to being able to manage crowds like Disney can. In Disney’s eyes, MDE/FP is a resounding success- the numbers don’t lie. The crowd sourcing is invaluable.

But in reality, for our experiences as regular guests, it certainly hurts.

Excellent post.

 

[matt9112]

There is a simple way to deal with overcrowding, that I suspect most people on this forum wouldn't be happy about. Be careful what you wish for.

hasn't worked for the last how many years?

 

[Horizons '83]

Can't see this effecting the general public much, just the folks who have enough to pay for Club level or Suites.

 

[jakeman]

He means that with Fastpass and MDE, that Disney artificially inflates lines and wait times via crowd sourcing and crowd control.

Example- go to BTM in July first thing in the morning and see when they open the other side. Same with multiple rides, dumbo, safari, Soarin, dinosaur, etc. They’ll keep only one side running for hours. 20, 30 minute lines- just one side. Only when they predict it “worthy” of a certain wait time do they open the other. So if they are expecting crowds to increase at BTM by 10:30am that will swell the wait time to an hour, they’ll only run one side until then. Whereas before, they would run both sides and you could just walk on or have a 15 min wait instead of 30.

That was a very rudimentary explanation, and it’s way more complicated than that- but essentially that applies to everything. That’s why WDW doesn’t have “slow times” anymore like it used to. Is it because of crowds? No. Attendance has gone down, while revenue goes up, and profit has doubled revenue growth. Less people, paying more, and disney running more efficiently. Iger has even said that’s the goal.

As a shareholder, it’s great. No park gets close to being able to manage crowds like Disney can. In Disney’s eyes, MDE/FP is a resounding success- the numbers don’t lie. The crowd sourcing is invaluable.

But in reality, for our experiences as regular guests, it certainly hurts.

Only caveat based on my extremely dated experience, it is based more on labor levels set by anticipated park attendance that day.

So if you schedule labor for a 50k day and 70k show up, you are screwed.

It was hit and miss 20 years ago. I'm sure it is expertly refined to teeter on the edge at all times now.

 

[Master Yoda]

hasn't worked for the last how many years?

Possibly because they have not increased prices enough.

Make an AP $2k and one day ticket $250 and go up from there and the crowds would die down.

 

[wendysue]

If everyone's in the FP+ line, does the FP+ line become the standby line?

Exactly.

 

[Master Yoda]

Only caveat based on my extremely dated experience, it is based more on labor levels set by anticipated park attendance that day.

So if you schedule labor for a 50k day and 70k show up, you are screwed.

It was hit and miss 20 years ago. I'm sure it is expertly refined to teeter on the edge at all times now.

There is also the fact that pretty much every business on the planet does this. I had to do it back in 1990 when I managed a quick lube. It just makes financial sense to staff based on predicted need.

 

[BoarderPhreak]

...one day ticket $250 and go up from there and the crowds would die down.

Yeah, I'll say.

 

[wendysue]

Just one more reason of many NOT to renew our AP's. There is no reason to pay over $100 bucks a day just to walk into the park, only to have to pay extra for every move you make once you get in there. Doesn't matter whether you are "mad at your money" and can throw it away on a ride....The question is Why Should You Have To????

 

[jmmc]

You know, I try not to care that much when some special events, experiences, etc, are introduced that people with more money can pay for. It's not a big deal. I don't need a private cabana or a private fireworks show to enjoy the place. Knowing how much it costs people to go to WDW, I get annoyed when their TV commercials show you the single most expensive hotel to stay at. But as long as there's some cheaper hotels, so what? But this, paying more for something that's potentially taking Fastpasses away from those who can't afford more? Come on, Disney! You're welcome to try and make as much money off people as you can, but at least try to make it less obvious and blatant.

 

[rfc0001]

Full details:

http://www.wdwmagic.com/other/theme...in-guests-to-purchase-additional-fastpass.htm

Any idea if this is for DVC guests at Poly Bungalows, CCV Cabins, and AKL Kilimanjaro Club or just cash guests?

 

[Bob Harlem]

You're going to explain what you mean better than this. What exactly is 'adequate capacity in line'? Are you saying they should close lines when they reach a certain number of people in them?

I'd assume capacity (staffing) manipulation by using fast pass numbers (such as opening up one side of a ride, or reduced vehicle count, or fewer shows) which means reduced staffing, which then inflates wait times.

And the other big option is just adding new attractions, which they went to sleep on the last decade and only woke up lately (But still nowhere near where needed, particularly outside the Magic Kingdom), DHS in particular is going to be a cluster because it won't have the capacity (Even with Toy Story land and Mickey Railway) that it needs to get people in for SWGE. It'll be tough in Disneyland which has a ton of capacity, but absolutely out of control in Orlando.

It's just flat out bad long term management.

 

[DisneyJoe]

How to deal with overcrowding? Forget reigning in AP or increasing ticket prices.

Every WDW resort guest gets in. Allow X amount of outsiders in before closing the gates. The problem is, you need to keep a close count of people coming and going (though they kind of already do this).

So how do you time that? What about the WDW resort guests that don't roll out of bed until 11am to go to the parks, or the convention goers that don't get to a park until after 4pm? What if they have already allowed enough outsiders in to hit their max for the day?

 

[wdwmagic]

Any idea if this is for DVC guest at Poly Bungalows, CCV Cabins, and AKL Kilimanjaro Club or just cash guests?

Unsure at this point.

Also worth noting there is a 3 day minimum requirement to purchase.