General Star Wars News

[Disney Irish]

The big miss in the sequels was not reuniting the big three in one scene.

The bigger miss was not filming them before the prequels.

I'll agree with both, and say that the latter rather than the former is the biggest travesty of anything in modern SW.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I'll agree with both, and say that the latter rather than the former is the biggest travesty of anything in modern SW.

Wonder how much blame for that goes to Harrison Ford.

 

[brideck]

I'll agree with both, and say that the latter rather than the former is the biggest travesty of anything in modern SW.

I really think the ability to do anything in the space of episode 7+ got completely handcuffed the minute the Zahn trilogy came out in the '90s and was insanely popular. Any movies made after that point would've had to either just be adaptations of existing EU material or figure out a way to play nicely with it, which doesn't strike me as something Lucas ever would have been particularly keen on doing. Which is to say, yeah... Lucas should've really just started making more movies around 1990 if he actually believed in his trilogy of trilogies spiel.

Disney's alienating choice to pitch out the majority of the EU was kind of the only way to make original movies in that timeframe. The death of the EU would probably have been more broadly forgiven, if they'd really built something great to replace it for 7-9.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The big miss in the sequels was not reuniting the big three in one scene.

There were 3 big Mistakes:
Reboot
Reinventing the wheel
Retcon

The bigger miss was not filming them before the prequels.

Agreed. That was George…he wanted no part of paying - particularly fords - price at that time

But if you look at the late 90s…there’s a couple of afi tributes out there featuring the 3…they were the perfect ages to pass it off and still be heroes.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Wonder how much blame for that goes to Harrison Ford.

Almost all blame was ford and George…knowing what we know now

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I really think the ability to do anything in the space of episode 7+ got completely handcuffed the minute the Zahn trilogy came out in the '90s and was insanely popular. Any movies made after that point would've had to either just be adaptations of existing EU material or figure out a way to play nicely with it, which doesn't strike me as something Lucas ever would have been particularly keen on doing. Which is to say, yeah... Lucas should've really just started making more movies around 1990 if he actually believed in his trilogy of trilogies spiel.

Disney's alienating choice to pitch out the majority of the EU was kind of the only way to make original movies in that timeframe. The death of the EU would probably have been more broadly forgiven, if they'd really built something great to replace it for 7-9.

Yeah but the zahn books were 100% fan service…and would have been so repetitive

But it really showed the power of the franchise and the thirst for it…after the dark ages.

Disney saying “we know better” and canning the EU - was a mistake though. The EU was filled with a lot of crap…no doubt…but that’s not why they canned it.

It was because they had a “strategic” decision to reinvent it to “expand the fanbase” while still selling the same merchandise and tie ins with the originals on the periphery.

What genius…And pretty easy to autopsy now.

But then I see thrawn on a 2024 streaming show…so they couldn’t even backup the proclamation.

Ugh

 

[brideck]

Yeah but the zahn books were 100% fan service…and would have been so repetitive

Not sure I understand this complaint, especially re: a franchise where its fans pretty much complain if they aren't served exactly what they want. Me and my pre-teen circle of friends loved them, though, and we would have loved them had they been movies instead (or had they been other movies that Lucas made in lieu of them).

But it really showed the power of the franchise and the thirst for it…after the dark ages.

It's interesting how this period feels different depending on how old you are. We were a little too young when the OT came out to have seen it in theaters, so the gap between '87 (when I probably first saw Jedi) & '91 wasn't hard to bridge with periodically watching the movies taped off of TV, etc.

After that, the Zahn trilogy + X-Wing, Dark Forces, and their ilk + the Dark Horse comics really did a great job of creating/reinforcing a slightly delayed younger wave of fandom among my peers.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Not sure I understand this complaint, especially re: a franchise where its fans pretty much complain if they aren't served exactly what they want. Me and my pre-teen circle of friends loved them, though, and we would have loved them had they been movies instead (or had they been other movies that Lucas made in lieu of them).

That was prior to the call for fan service…which is really a Disney thing because of how far off course. Older fans didn’t want repetition/referrals to the OT at that time…which was a lot of the pages of the zahn books.

Now they’d give anything for it.

What are the two most widely regarded scenes of the Disney era? I say it’s the Vader scene of rogue one and the rescue in the last episode of season 2 of Mando…everyone else can pick the field

It's interesting how this period feels different depending on how old you are. We were a little too young when the OT came out to have seen it in theaters, so the gap between '87 (when I probably first saw Jedi) & '91 wasn't hard to bridge with periodically watching the movies taped off of TV, etc.

After that, the Zahn trilogy + X-Wing, Dark Forces, and their ilk + the Dark Horse comics really did a great job of creating/reinforcing a slightly delayed younger wave of fandom among my peers.

I remember thinking we were just getting “a taste” in the early days of the EU you speak of.

Wouldn’t never have guessed we’d have such a twisted, convoluted road since

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think the difference is Lucas had ideas, he didn't write the scripts first, and things shifted as it went. But there were ideas there for him to go from. Compared to zero plans, no idea for the direction things would go. And then play choose your own adventure with the next director. I think that's the difference. No one starts a novel, movie, a video game... And has it figured out 100% before they start. That's not how it generally works. Even a basic framework will guide you through the process. And it should change, it should evolve, that's just the creative process. Lucas started out with ideas. He had an idea in his head of how he wanted it to go. Disney had nothing. The only thing they planned was to move away from the OT characters.

There is a lot of documentation that shows just how little of even a basic framework Lucas had with both trilogies. The Secret History of Star Wars goes through it in great detail.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There is a lot of documentation that shows just how little of even a basic framework Lucas had with both trilogies. The Secret History of Star Wars goes through it in great detail.

I think neither Lucas nor Disney were capable of making good material anymore in that universe…as weird as that sounds

But the reason is the same: it didn’t serve their financial motives the way it was established…
…and you can’t fight the universe

 

[Heppenheimer]

Absolutely. All true. My only quibble with Lucas (and the MCU is kind of the same way) in this space is when he would mythologize things as having all being planned from the start, when that is, as you say, not generally the way that creative works are produced. And when there's plenty of evidence in his own creations that it wasn't the case.

I have no problem with Lucas' rather minor retcons to change Luke's father, etc. because they worked, uh, pretty well I'd say, within the story he was telling.

I remember watching all the made-for-TV documentaries about Star Wars from the 1980s, including 'The Making of the Saga", and I don't think he ever made that claim. It was pretty clear that Lucas changed his mind on a lot of details as the trilogy progressed.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I remember watching all the made-for-TV documentaries about Star Wars from the 1980s, including 'The Making of the Saga", and I don't think he ever made that claim. It was pretty clear that Lucas changed his mind on a lot of details as the trilogy progressed.

Because that’s not when he was making those claims. It came more with the prequels, insisting that Star Wars was only ever six movies (not nine or twelve) and was specifically about Anakin Skywalker.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Because that’s not when he was making those claims. It came more with the prequels, insisting that Star Wars was only ever six movies (not nine or twelve) and was specifically about Anakin Skywalker.

It was always 9 according to Bantha Tracks in the 80’s.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It was always 9 according to Bantha Tracks in the 80’s.

And before that it was an anthology of twelve. And after that it was six, before becoming nine again. Lucas was inconsistent. It depended on when he was asked and how he felt about things. He was always done with Star Wars to do other things but also kept going back.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I remember watching all the made-for-TV documentaries about Star Wars from the 1980s, including 'The Making of the Saga", and I don't think he ever made that claim. It was pretty clear that Lucas changed his mind on a lot of details as the trilogy progressed.

Watch’s the Icons Unearthed series available on prime and/or peacock

They do a great job of showing the good and bad sides of the the film series…without going too far in either direction.

I’ve watched the Star Wars, Batman, bond and marvel ones…they’re excellent

They are harsh on Star Wars…but you can’t dispute it. I’d LOVE to see them extend the series to the Disney era

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Because that’s not when he was making those claims. It came more with the prequels, insisting that Star Wars was only ever six movies (not nine or twelve) and was specifically about Anakin Skywalker.

It was always 9 according to Bantha Tracks in the 80’s.

And before that it was an anthology of twelve. And after that it was six, before becoming nine again. Lucas was inconsistent. It depended on when he was asked and how he felt about things. He was always done with Star Wars to do other things but also kept going back.

Lucas has consistently lied his @&! Off about Star Wars from the start. The reality is he was a terrible “master planner” and the OT was what it was largely from the collective that worked under him.

It’s pretty clear.

That 9 film idea was from his mouth though…In print between empire and Jedi

 

[Hawkeye_2018]

Yeah, Lucas contradicts himself all the time.

He seemed exhausted with the franchise but was also too protective of it at the same time to let others run with it. Finally decided to sell it and then seemed to immediately regret it when it didn't go exactly how he envisioned it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yeah, Lucas contradicts himself all the time.

He seemed exhausted with the franchise but was also too protective of it at the same time to let others run with it. Finally decided to sell it and then seemed to immediately regret it when it didn't go exactly how he envisioned it.

…dead on

 

[brideck]

He seemed exhausted with the franchise but was also too protective of it at the same time to let others run with it. Finally decided to sell it and then seemed to immediately regret it when it didn't go exactly how he envisioned it.

Which is kind of crazy considering all of the hokum he allowed in '77-'78 in order to promote the thing in the first place. I just started reading Steve Kozak's A Disturbance in the Force (a history of the Holiday Special) a couple days ago, and some of the stuff that hit the air in '77 was wild. I'd never seen the Richard Pryor, Donny & Marie, or Bob Hope bits before.

Bad things start happening when you start taking your toy-spinning franchise too seriously as a creator.

 

[Phroobar]

Yeah, Lucas contradicts himself all the time.

He seemed exhausted with the franchise but was also too protective of it at the same time to let others run with it. Finally decided to sell it and then seemed to immediately regret it when it didn't go exactly how he envisioned it.

We he was right about selling his children to slave traders.