Game of Thrones: Season 7

[Princess Leia]

I have a question that maybe someone can help me with. When Arya showed up at Winterfell, the guards told her that Lady Stark was in charge. Arya asked which Lady Stark. There is only one left and I thought she knew the other Stark girls, Catelyn and Talisa, were dead. I'm probably missing something simple here.

I thought the same thing. She definitely knew that Cat and Talisa were dead (referenced both while slaughtering the Freys- which nobody in Westeros seems to be talking about). My only guess is that maybe she thought Jon became legitimized and got married?

 

[Princess Leia]

I agree that WoW will get published. I actually think there is hope that another book follows it, maybe Martin gets that written or maybe Sanderson finishes it, working off a GRRM manuscript.

What I don't see is him finishing a Song of Ice and Fire. He is 68 years old. He's over 300lbs. He has slowed down considerably writing. His life is posh, he's so rich it's hard to even comprehend. How on earth, is this man going to finish this story?

It's the reason I have not gone back for a 3rd Re-read. It's not worth it at this point. I have a sinking feeling I am not going to be getting any resolution in the written world.

I just don't see the story wrapping up in two books anymore. The Martells, Greyjoys, and Aegon VI really detracted from the overarching plot (I love Arianne Martell, but I would much rather get some character development from Sansa). Unless there is a massive massacre of POV characters in TWOW, there's no hope this story will end in a timely fashion. Even if GRRM planned for Cersei to blow up the Sept of Baelor with the Tyrells inside, that wouldn't help cut back on the POVs, because no one who died in that plot was a POV (plus Loras is potentially dying in the Reach fighting Greyjoys).

While the show has (temporarily?) screwed over Jaime and Tyrion, at least they had the courtesy of culling characters (Tyrells and Martells), as opposed to adding 500 more.

 

[RandomPrincess]

I'm guessing there are also other Starks, extended family that could get Winterfell if all the original line was gone.

I feel bad for Meera Reed. I'm hoping that wasn't her final scene.

Also how on earth was High Garden Dickon's first battle? He is like 30. How did he not fight in the War of the 5 Kings?

I'm guessing Jamie and Bronn will be captured. Dickon as well? I really don't care about him.

Bran basically lets Little Finger know he was on to him with the "chaos is a ladder" line. I didn't realize it at the time but that is a direct quote from Little Finger in season 4. I'm hoping something happens with Bran soon. He needs to get the plot moving with a vision or what is his point?

Some people are mad about the Brianne/Arya fight but it thought it was fun and Brianne was not going full strength.

Some stuff to check out from episode 4

Watching this is like watching behind the scenes on a movie. I can't believe this is a tv show!



Also some of the callbacks to earlier episodes - https://www.buzzfeed.com/jennaguillaume/spoils-of-war?utm_term=.nqOkaBmBd#.xeP1x7r7K

 

[flynnibus]

Tyrion, the man who saved King's Landing at the Battle of the Blackwater, is now reduced to a witty man with family problems and drinking issues. I think Dany's anger in him his majorly misplaced, because without spies (or Varys's little birds), how was Tyrion supposed to know that Euron was planning a surprised boat attack? Or that the Lannister army was to march on Highgarden? Honestly, Dany should be angrier with Varys for not setting up a spy system yet.

I think you are being too hard on them here. Tyrion was lost.. serving Danni has given him new focus and purpose. His time under the slavers was the transition to a more human role. He's bounded by his role now... trapped in running the city, or now being by the queen's side. No longer free to float around. He's still in character... as you wonder if the mission to take the rock was more a personal vendetta vs a true strategic objective. He knew of the debts to the Iron Bank, and that that The Rock wasn't the gold mine it used to be. He's still playing the middle-man and sage advisor.. and using his education/knowledge to advise where others are less versed.

As for his responsibility... yes, he still bears it even when outplayed by the enemy. They made several classic military mistakes. Dispersing their forces... failure to secure the sea/route.. decisions without adequate intelligence. Basically the jist was they tried to be too tricky... that isn't something you can do at scale and get away with it. In an effort to have all the surprise, they failed to adequately look ahead or secure their means. Now, as I said before, I think the Euron stuff was way overplayed (and stacked the deck to him..) but the underlying mistakes Tyrion made are rooted in true military failures.

But outside of Tyrion's over eager mistakes.. I think the show was too lopsided in how they made everything work so the Lannisters won. And again this week... with an entire Dothraki horde moving across the land without any warning? Come on...

 

[Princess Leia]

I'm guessing there are also other Starks, extended family that could get Winterfell if all the original line was gone.

I feel bad for Meera Reed. I'm hoping that wasn't her final scene.

Also how on earth was High Garden Dickon's first battle? He is like 30. How did he not fight in the War of the 5 Kings?

I'm guessing Jamie and Bronn will be captured. Dickon as well? I really don't care about him.

Bran basically lets Little Finger know he was on to him with the "chaos is a ladder" line. I didn't realize it at the time but that is a direct quote from Little Finger in season 4. I'm hoping something happens with Bran soon. He needs to get the plot moving with a vision or what is his point?

Some people are mad about the Brianne/Arya fight but it thought it was fun and Brianne was not going full strength.

Some stuff to check out from episode 4

Watching this is like watching behind the scenes on a movie. I can't believe this is a tv show!



Also some of the callbacks to earlier episodes - https://www.buzzfeed.com/jennaguillaume/spoils-of-war?utm_term=.nqOkaBmBd#.xeP1x7r7K

Dickon's casting has been a problem. This is supposed to be Sam's little brother... and both times he was cast, the show picked older actors. If Sam is around Jon's age (early-mid 20s), Dickon should be a teenager...

 

[RandomPrincess]

Dickon's casting has been a problem. This is supposed to be Sam's little brother... and both times he was cast, the show picked older actors. If Sam is around Jon's age (early-mid 20s), Dickon should be a teenager...

Exactly!

 

[xdan0920]

But outside of Tyrion's over eager mistakes.. I think the show was too lopsided in how they made everything work so the Lannisters won. And again this week... with an entire Dothraki horde moving across the land without any warning? Come on..

The Lannisters pay their debts, but not their scouts.

 

[flynnibus]

I think what is making the 'post-book' show stand out so much.. the world before was so involved and intertwined... and largely CONSISTENT. Now, we are losing much of that consistency in the drive for quick action and having things working out for convenience. This lack of consistency compared to what we are used to is why I think it's popping out so much.

 

[RandomPrincess]

I think you are being too hard on them here. Tyrion was lost.. serving Danni has given him new focus and purpose. His time under the slavers was the transition to a more human role. He's bounded by his role now... trapped in running the city, or now being by the queen's side. No longer free to float around. He's still in character... as you wonder if the mission to take the rock was more a personal vendetta vs a true strategic objective. He knew of the debts to the Iron Bank, and that that The Rock wasn't the gold mine it used to be. He's still playing the middle-man and sage advisor.. and using his education/knowledge to advise where others are less versed.

As for his responsibility... yes, he still bears it even when outplayed by the enemy. They made several classic military mistakes. Dispersing their forces... failure to secure the sea/route.. decisions without adequate intelligence. Basically the jist was they tried to be too tricky... that isn't something you can do at scale and get away with it. In an effort to have all the surprise, they failed to adequately look ahead or secure their means. Now, as I said before, I think the Euron stuff was way overplayed (and stacked the deck to him..) but the underlying mistakes Tyrion made are rooted in true military failures.

But outside of Tyrion's over eager mistakes.. I think the show was too lopsided in how they made everything work so the Lannisters won. And again this week... with an entire Dothraki horde moving across the land without any warning? Come on...

They were near King's Landing when they attacked. The gold at the front of the line had been safely delivered through the gates, we are seeing the tail end of the wagon train a few miles away from the city. The Dothraki would have come by ship from Dragonstone. King's Landing is near the water so they made land fall somewhere nearby. My thought is where is Euron? I guess this is happening at the same timeish that Euron was on the other side of the country attacking the Unsullied's ships? It's hard to tell the time line. We know at least 2 weeks have passed since Cersi told Mycroft she would be paying him back. I wish we had more time markers. The book does this too. Scenes are not alway taking place in order. I looked at a chronological chapter list once and it's all over the place.

 

[Princess Leia]

They were near King's Landing when they attacked. The gold at the front of the line had been safely delivered through the gates, we are seeing the tail end of the wagon train a few miles away from the city. The Dothraki would have come by ship from Dragonstone. King's Landing is near the water so they made land fall somewhere nearby. My thought is where is Euron? I guess this is happening at the same timeish that Euron was on the other side of the country attacking the Unsullied's ships? It's hard to tell the time line. We know at least 2 weeks have passed since Cersi told Mycroft she would be paying him back. I wish we had more time markers. The book does this too. Scenes are not alway taking place in order. I looked at a chronological chapter list once and it's all over the place.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZsY3lcDDtTdBWp1Gx6mfkdtZT6-Gk0kdTGeSC_Dj7WM/edit#gid=8 is this what you were talking about? Because holy flip, it's everywhere (though I don't think the month/day really matters since this is a different continent with different months). However, seeing this in great detail pleases the major nerd in me

 

[RandomPrincess]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZsY3lcDDtTdBWp1Gx6mfkdtZT6-Gk0kdTGeSC_Dj7WM/edit#gid=8 is this what you were talking about? Because holy flip, it's everywhere (though I don't think the month/day really matters since this is a different continent with different months). However, seeing this in great detail pleases the major nerd in me

This is the list I've seen before. I was following along with a linear reread podcast for awhile but had to give up. The differences between the show and the books were starting to confuse me. Now I'm waiting until after the shows ends to do a reread.

 

[flynnibus]

They were near King's Landing when they attacked. The gold at the front of the line had been safely delivered through the gates, we are seeing the tail end of the wagon train a few miles away from the city. The Dothraki would have come by ship from Dragonstone. King's Landing is near the water so they made land fall somewhere nearby. My thought is where is Euron? I guess this is happening at the same timeish that Euron was on the other side of the country attacking the Unsullied's ships? It's hard to tell the time line. We know at least 2 weeks have passed since Cersi told Mycroft she would be paying him back. I wish we had more time markers. The book does this too. Scenes are not alway taking place in order. I looked at a chronological chapter list once and it's all over the place.

While the ships could have sailed further vs just ferrying the Dothraki to the mainland... we know how much they hate the ships.. So wouldn't they minimize the sea portion of their trip? You also can't have a huge fleet stay hidden when you can't control who sees you from afar.

The timeline has some anchors because we now have anchors where Danni sends out the unsullied... and we know the attack on the unsullied is complete. Jon has arrived in that gap... and somehow in that same gap Euron has attacked the greyjoy fleet (lets assume that happened close to dragonstone...)... then went BACK to Kings Landing... and then left and somehow caught up to the unsullied. Following that... Euron should be all the way on the other side of the continent.. which should be 3-4 weeks worth of sailing at least from kings landing.

So the battle at lannisport would explain why the Dothraki could move on the sea unchallenged. But that too seems glaringly out of character since Euron would know there is another big fleet around... why leave the eastern shores undefended?

The consistency is just wack

 

[RandomPrincess]

While the ships could have sailed further vs just ferrying the Dothraki to the mainland... we know how much they hate the ships.. So wouldn't they minimize the sea portion of their trip? You also can't have a huge fleet stay hidden when you can't control who sees you from afar.

The timeline has some anchors because we now have anchors where Danni sends out the unsullied... and we know the attack on the unsullied is complete. Jon has arrived in that gap... and somehow in that same gap Euron has attacked the greyjoy fleet (lets assume that happened close to dragonstone...)... then went BACK to Kings Landing... and then left and somehow caught up to the unsullied. Following that... Euron should be all the way on the other side of the continent.. which should be 3-4 weeks worth of sailing at least from kings landing.

So the battle at lannisport would explain why the Dothraki could move on the sea unchallenged. But that too seems glaringly out of character since Euron would know there is another big fleet around... why leave the eastern shores undefended?

The consistency is just wack

Yeah I'm trying to figure it out. Kings Landing should have a small fleet too, to guard the port. They aren't showing us any of the planning steps so we can't really see how it's supposed to make sense.

 

[The_Jobu]

I just don't see the story wrapping up in two books anymore.

I'd love it if he'd quit writing compendiums and side-stories for now and just focus on finishing the main story.

 

[Princess Leia]

I'd like to see the Stark kids conversing with each other. Like, having real, honest to goodness conversations about what they went through, what they learned, and who they were with.

Arya: "I walked a lot. Served as Tywin Lannister's cupbearer, met the Brotherhood without Banners, was kidnapped by the Hound, sailed to Braavos, became a Faceless Man, got stabbed, wiped out the Frey male line- you're welcome by the way- and now I'm home."

Sansa: "I got emotionally and physically abused by like everyone. Was married to Tyrion Lannister, he was kind, then ran off after Joffrey was poisoned. Our Aunt Lysa tried to kill me, then Littlefinger killed her. Pretended to be his daughter for a little while, then got married to Ramsay Bolton. Theon eventually helped me escape the hell that was home, went to the Wall, got our home back, and now we're all together. Bran?"

Bran: "I already knew everything you two told me-"

Arya: "Shut up and tell us, we don't know anything about what happened to you."

Bran's going to need a lot of family interaction to get back to normal, poor kid.

 

[flynnibus]

Unfortunately a-hole Bran seems to be the character going forward. As the girl said.. 'you died in that cave'

Now they are making Bran into some emotionless, detached, Oracle character

 

[Princess Leia]

Unfortunately a-hole Bran seems to be the character going forward. As the girl said.. 'you died in that cave'

Now they are making Bran into some emotionless, detached, Oracle character

I think Bran's got a lot to learn still. He wasn't ready to be the 3 Eyed Raven when his training ended.

 

[Princess Leia]

Okay, if IMDB is correct (I know it can get some things wrong since ordinary people can edit it), these are the run times for the final 3 episodes of the season.

I'll give you a moment to let it sink in that there are only 3 left and then we have to wait a year (or potentially more)

Eastwatch: 59 minutes
Episode 6: 71 minutes
Episode 7: 81 minutes

The final two episodes are going to be the longest in Game of Thrones history, so friendly reminder that if you're like me, and don't start watching the show immediately at 9 EST, it could be a long night.

 

[RandomPrincess]

Unfortunately a-hole Bran seems to be the character going forward. As the girl said.. 'you died in that cave'

Now they are making Bran into some emotionless, detached, Oracle character

I think Bran has all this knowledge in his head without being able to properly access it. The entire history of Westeros in his head. I think they had to do this otherwise he's too powerful.

 

[xdan0920]

I think Bran has all this knowledge in his head without being able to properly access it. The entire history of Westeros in his head. I think they had to do this otherwise he's too powerful.

When you have the memories and by extension, feelings of an entire civilization...the day to day emotions are muted. How could a reunion with your sister be important when you have seen tragedy and joy on such grand scales? These little things are nothing to him, he has seen too much.