GAC to Become DAS

[arko]

Your view on Disney is different then mine. I LOVE WDW! I can go for a week and not ride anything and still feel like I had an amazing vacation. It is my happy place. I love the resorts and how beautiful they are. I love walking around world showcase and watching all of the entertainment they have. I love that when I go as a single woman that I feel safe there even walking around the resorts at night. There is so much more to WDW then just rides IMO. It is the Disney magic, as they say. It does not sound as if you have that, which is fine but understand that for others it is not all about how many rides we go on. You sound as if you would be fine going anywhere there are rides of any kind but just preferred Disney because of the GAC they provided. I am not saying this to be mean or rude but just to point out the differences between us and why I will keep going to WDW even if I never go on another ride ever again.

How I view Disney has nothing to do with the limits placed on us by my sons disability. The GAC just made the stress of trying to get around the park a little easier, it wasn't the only reason we went to Disney. But it certainly made it an easier decision when it came to deciding whether to renew or not.

Understand my point is not that I am threatening to go to Universal, its that when I make a decision on how to spend my money, DIsney simply has to fight for my money based on its merits as a theme park because its services for the disabled are no better than anyone else now.

 

[DISNEYCASTAWAY]

Possible locations for DAS kiosks:

1. Guest Relations
2. The Tangled Rest Area
3. Agrabah Bazaar
4. The FP tent for Storybook Circus
5. Somewhere near Big Thunder
6. Near the border of Frontierland and Liberty Square
7. Near the carousel
8. Rockettower Plaza

Done.

Kiosks don't work well for people with a mobility disability.To much traveling. My family does not use the wheel chairs or ecv's while at Disney because we find them to hard to navigate the parks with. Like running into people or them running into you.

I like the idea of in the future linking it some how to the Magic Bands and My Disney Experience. But can we make sure that system is fully functional before we add more to the mix. As i stated in a previous post we did encounter some issues with Magic Bands and the My Disney Experience, all be it small ones. If you added the DAS to that and had problems, it could really ruin a vacation for a family with a disabled member in their party.

 

[JerseyDad]

....the bottom line is just that ...THE bottom line. If you feel that a venue is not going to meet your needs with regards to ease of navigation, and value ...or diminished value due to how said place is operated ...then you opt out and find a more suitable destination. That's EVERYONE'S option ....

....our recent trip to WDW was an eye opener with regards to value. We won't do ADR's at TS restaurants because the value isn't there. Granted ...someone with a disability sees a trip to WDW with a different point viewpoint ...but ...."is it worth it" will always be a part of the decision making process.

....heck ...we did an off-site day at Universal in 2011 to just see the whole Harry Potter thing ....but ...after doing that ...seeing some of the other rides / attractions ....and shelling out +$400 for the day there ...we decided that the 'value" isn't there to warrant a repeat trip.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Uoh

Oh heck yeah!

FOOD DISCOUNTS!!!!!!!!

That and special events. I'm surprised WDW doesn't offer special events.

 

[BroganMc]

How I view Disney has nothing to do with the limits placed on us by my sons disability. The GAC just made the stress of trying to get around the park a little easier, it wasn't the only reason we went to Disney. But it certainly made it an easier decision when it came to deciding whether to renew or not.

Understand my point is not that I am threatening to go to Universal, its that when I make a decision on how to spend my money, DIsney simply has to fight for my money based on its merits as a theme park because its services for the disabled are no better than anyone else now.

Right. The elephant in the room here is that GAC's stress-free access to attractions (i.e. where you didn't have to plan your day around hunting down FPs) was an incentive for the disabled to spend their money at Disney. Even if they could only manage a few hours (let's say 4) in a park, they would pay the full price ticket as everyone else and feel they got their money's worth.

That incentive is gone now. Explains why Disney was doing projective studies on how many AP holders they'd lose in DisneyLand because of the change.

There are other parks and attractions which incentivize the disabled to come. They do it with ticket price breaks. Every summer I go to Colonial Williamsburg and pay for an annual pass. I do so knowing I won't be able to go in more than half the historic buildings. It makes monetary sense to me because they offer me the ticket at half price. It's compensation for me not being able to partake in all they offer due to my disability.

We can argue all day about whether GAC made it fair to other guests. Personally, I think the question of GAC's "fairness" dismisses the reasons it was implemented in the first place. It was never about being fair. It was about being just. This illustration sums up perfectly what is provided to what was:

\

Now some here may say "equality" in that photo is the goal and the little boy who misses out on the view just has to deal with life's disappointments. Others will look at the image and think "Hey, everyone should be able to see, how rude!"

Unfortunately with the way GAC was issued so indiscriminately you had the taller kids who didn't need it hopping on the little boy's boxes and blocking the view for everyone behind him. And then you have Disney trying to deploy more "boxes" (i.e. more FP+ users, more disabled guests overall) and realizing it was running out, so they changed the rules to be more "equal" than "just". The hope is by providing a box that at least it helps most of the people who need one (i.e. the tall and middle kids).

My hunch is that the little kid will not get served and decide to go elsewhere, or else Disney will quietly tweak its services to provide that extra box for him and hope the tall kids (i.e. cheaters) don't figure it out.

 

[Belowthesurface]

The "problem" is that those who used to get GAC cards are mad they can't just walk right onto attractions anymore. Either you want to be treated equally or you expect to be treated better than everyone else, make up your mind!

Welcome to the rules the rest of the world follows. The system was always designed to giver easier access, NOT IMMEDIATE! Disney is still giving easy access, but you now have to actually wait for it. I'm so sorry you have to live like everyone else does. It must be so hard.

I don't want to wait in a line full of people I don't know in a space that is hot or boring. DAS allows you to do whatever you want without waiting in line. Sounds like accommodation to me!

 

[BroganMc]

The "problem" is that those who used to get GAC cards are mad they can't just walk right onto attractions anymore. Either you want to be treated equally or you expect to be treated better than everyone else, make up your mind!

Welcome to the rules the rest of the world follows. The system was always designed to giver easier access, NOT IMMEDIATE! Disney is still giving easy access, but you now have to actually wait for it. I'm so sorry you have to live like everyone else does. It must be so hard.

I don't want to wait in a line full of people I don't know in a space that is hot or boring. DAS allows you to do whatever you want without waiting in line. Sounds like accommodation to me!

You're still not getting it. You're assuming GAC was always used as the cheater used it... unlimited FP entry for 12-14 hours a day that let them on a ride in the amount of time it took to walk thru the FP queue. What I'm saying is that for the people who genuinely needed the GAC that was never HOW it was used.

You need to step outside yourself and consider what limitations a disabled person has and how that affects how they experience Disney.

Consider that for someone like me with a wheelchair and boarding issues (i.e. needs wheelchair vehicles), I always waited to board a ride and was subject to limited availability. I have been turned away from theater seating because there were no spots left for my wheelchair while they still had plenty of room left for the ambulatory folks. I always wait for the wheelchair car to cycle through the ride to a place I can board it, regardless of whether there's another wheelchair user waiting in line before me. If it's a ride vehicle I need to transfer into, then I have to wait for a ride stoppage to give me time to board. GAC never allowed me to just get on a ride without waiting. What it did allow was for me to not have to depend on someone to help me get a FP from a machine, or stick me in a crowded queue with careless people who inadvertently hurt me, or have to skip a ride because the wait of Standby + wheelchair car was beyond my stamina limit.

Now consider someone who has stamina issues and can only manage a few hours a day in a park. They'll have half the time to do what a person without stamina issues can do. Pretty much everyone with a disability (physical or cognitive) has a limit to what they can handle in a day that is less than a non-disabled person. Less time equals less opportunity to do things.

DAS does not properly address all these concerns. What it does do is prohibit the cheaters and abuse from mucking up the system. Yeah Disney! But what about that person who now deals with a less than equal experience?

 

[asianway]

Right. The elephant in the room here is that GAC's stress-free access to attractions (i.e. where you didn't have to plan your day around hunting down FPs) was an incentive for the disabled to spend their money at Disney. Even if they could only manage a few hours (let's say 4) in a park, they would pay the full price ticket as everyone else and feel they got their money's worth.

That incentive is gone now. Explains why Disney was doing projective studies on how many AP holders they'd lose in DisneyLand because of the change.

There are other parks and attractions which incentivize the disabled to come. They do it with ticket price breaks. Every summer I go to Colonial Williamsburg and pay for an annual pass. I do so knowing I won't be able to go in more than half the historic buildings. It makes monetary sense to me because they offer me the ticket at half price. It's compensation for me not being able to partake in all they offer due to my disability.

We can argue all day about whether GAC made it fair to other guests. Personally, I think the question of GAC's "fairness" dismisses the reasons it was implemented in the first place. It was never about being fair. It was about being just. This illustration sums up perfectly what is provided to what was:

\

Now some here may say "equality" in that photo is the goal and the little boy who misses out on the view just has to deal with life's disappointments. Others will look at the image and think "Hey, everyone should be able to see, how rude!"

Unfortunately with the way GAC was issued so indiscriminately you had the taller kids who didn't need it hopping on the little boy's boxes and blocking the view for everyone behind him. And then you have Disney trying to deploy more "boxes" (i.e. more FP+ users, more disabled guests overall) and realizing it was running out, so they changed the rules to be more "equal" than "just". The hope is by providing a box that at least it helps most of the people who need one (i.e. the tall and middle kids).

My hunch is that the little kid will not get served and decide to go elsewhere, or else Disney will quietly tweak its services to provide that extra box for him and hope the tall kids (i.e. cheaters) don't figure it out.

Someone call TDO - they need to build a taller fence, cant be giving anything away for free.

 

[BroganMc]

Keep in mind guys, I was one of those responsible GAC users who wasn't whipping out her card every chance she got. In 2.5 weeks I used my GAC 4 times. That was for attractions where the Standby queue was congested and harmful to me. And I waited several ride cycles before I was able to board each time.

I cope with my stamina issues by buying an Annual Pass and taking long trips to Disney (thank goodness for timeshares). So I can be in a park for 2 hours, do nothing but eat an ice cream, and feel satisfied.

DAS should work fine for me, provided they can keep those wheelchair return times spaced out enough to not then have a long wait when I return. Would suck if I came back 90 minutes later with a promise of getting on the ride within 10 mins and have to wait an additional 30-40.

That's one of the issues being reported in DisneyLand. They aren't tracking who needs the wheelchair vehicles so they're sending people away only to have them come back and deal with an even longer line.

 

[JerseyDad]

The "problem" is that those who used to get GAC cards are mad they can't just walk right onto attractions anymore. Either you want to be treated equally or you expect to be treated better than everyone else, make up your mind!

Welcome to the rules the rest of the world follows. The system was always designed to giver easier access, NOT IMMEDIATE! Disney is still giving easy access, but you now have to actually wait for it. I'm so sorry you have to live like everyone else does. It must be so hard.

I don't want to wait in a line full of people I don't know in a space that is hot or boring. DAS allows you to do whatever you want without waiting in line. Sounds like accommodation to me!

.....yes, I think the biggest outcry is coming from those that have used the GAC in the past ...but they also have yet to try out the new system. They see a, "go there, get time, and wait" process ...without thinking about the ability to use the FP system (also available to them to get 2 other FP times). So all they see is "wait" ...even though the actual wait is targeted to be 10 minutes or less.

....the key is "planning" ...and I've seen some positive feedback from those that have used the DAS ...and literally attacked the park with a battle plan related to FP and the DAS used together so that they complimented each other.

...heck ...we had the MagicBands this past trip ...with the FP+ .....and did same type of planning that I mentioned (ps: I didn't care to have to plan THAT much ...but ...we tried it out)

 

[mr spalding]

Does anyone know if a DAS return time is counted as a FP because there are reports that paper FPs are running out very early throughout the parks? If CMs are reporting each DAS RT as a FP in the system, then that might explain the shortage. This wasn't an issue with GAC because they just walked on.

 

[Gomer]

Either you want to be treated equally or you expect to be treated better than everyone else, make up your mind!

That is a false choice. I can expect to be treated equally and want to be treated differently.

My local movie theater offers discounts to senior citizens, but not to the disabled. Do I expect that I should be entitled to the same discount because of my hardship? Absolutely not. Would I like it if they extended the offer to those with disabilities and probably use that theater more often? Sure, why not. I don't complain about the disparity in accomodation, I am happy for those who get to take advantage of it, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't want it for my own situation.

The vast majority of the people on this board have not reflected that vilified image you put forth in your post. It’s a projection of a few "lowest common denominator" points out on the internet by people of extreme opinions that have been dragged here as they are easy to argue against and mock. The people posting here for the most part, have been mostly supportive of change (with reservations) and not the entitled whiners you present us to be. And since Disney obviously has chosen to continue accomdations in a new form, I don't think its whining for people to bring to light legitimate reasons why it isn't working for them and suggest alternatives like @BroganMc has in relation to his/her specific needs. Bringing these issues to light is exactly how a system like this will be refined to keep as many happy as possible.

 

[Weather_Lady]

.....yes, I think the biggest outcry is coming from those that have used the GAC in the past ...but they also have yet to try out the new system. They see a, "go there, get time, and wait" process ...without thinking about the ability to use the FP system (also available to them to get 2 other FP times). So all they see is "wait" ...even though the actual wait is targeted to be 10 minutes or less.

....the key is "planning" ...and I've seen some positive feedback from those that have used the DAS ...and literally attacked the park with a battle plan related to FP and the DAS used together so that they complimented each other.

...heck ...we had the MagicBands this past trip ...with the FP+ .....and did same type of planning that I mentioned (ps: I didn't care to have to plan THAT much ...but ...we tried it out)

I concur! I think some of the DAS (former GAC) users are scared because they don't realize how well they can ameliorate those waits with a little bit of forethought and planning. Those of us who've never had access to anything but Fastpasses and rope drop to shorten our waits are used to it: former GAC users haven't had to develop those skills before, and may not realize how effective they can be. I have attempted, as much as I could, to reassure startled DAS users that it is possible to minimize your wait times with nothing more than a few simple planning tools -- the same tools that the non-disabled population uses constantly at WDW. But it's still unfamiliar territory and it's natural to be scared of change: until people try it out for themselves, some will undoubtedly continue to worry that DAS is going to "ruin" their vacation.

(Also, from the tone of some of the posts, I wonder if the DAS/GAC crowd honestly thinks that the rest of us enjoy, or don't mind, waiting in long lines, simply because we are physically and mentally capable of it. Heck, during our most recent trip in October 2012, in which our family never waited more than 10 minutes or so for anything thanks to rope drop arrivals and Fastpass, I caught myself wondering if the same was true about folks who were willing to enter a standby line with a 30-minute or longer wait when there were myriad ways to avoid it!) It all comes down to touring style and the time of year of your visit. Willingness to adjust those factors makes all the difference in the quality of your visit regardless of whether you are a DAS user, if you are one who measures quality in terms of wait time.

 

[JerseyDad]

Does anyone know if a DAS return time is counted as a FP because there are reports that paper FPs are running out very early throughout the parks? If CMs are reporting each DAS RT as a FP in the system, then that might explain the shortage. This wasn't an issue with GAC because they just walked on.

......I'm pretty confident that the DAS return time that's placed on the card is not a FP, nor does it register in the FP system. Perhaps there is a greater usage of the FP system now because persons are actually trying the utilize the "down time" in a manner that was envisioned by the DAS creators?

 

[JerseyDad]

That is a false choice. I can expect to be treated equally and want to be treated differently.

My local movie theater offers discounts to senior citizens, but not to the disabled. Do I expect that I should be entitled to the same discount because of my hardship? Absolutely not. Would I like it if they extended the offer to those with disabilities and probably use that theater more often? Sure, why not. I don't complain about the disparity in accomodation, I am happy for those who get to take advantage of it, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't want it for my own situation.

The vast majority of the people on this board have not reflected that vilified image you put forth in your post. It’s a projection of a few "lowest common denominator" points out on the internet by people of extreme opinions that have been dragged here as they are easy to argue against and mock. The people posting here for the most part, have been mostly supportive of change (with reservations) and not the entitled whiners you present us to be. And since Disney obviously has chosen to continue accomdations in a new form, I don't think its whining for people to bring to light legitimate reasons why it isn't working for them and suggest alternatives like @BroganMc has in relation to his/her specific needs. Bringing these issues to light is exactly how a system like this will be refined to keep as many happy as possible.

....well ...the senior citizen discounts that are thrown out there are for one reason only ...money. The senior citizen populous has perhaps the greatest quantity of disposable income in this country ...and business owners want some of it ...seniors don't want to spend all of it ...and it's a compromise between the two.

....if a comparable discount to the disabled community were put out there ...a movie theater will likely need to add more disabled seating / viewing areas ....and that cuts into their profit margin ....and depletes seating for the regular full-price movie-goer .

....at the end on all the break-in period ...Disney will look at what people are saying .....because it's somewhat in their best interest to do so ...but they will also put the financial impacts of any 'tweaks' under a micro-scope.

 

[Gomer]

....well ...the senior citizen discounts that are thrown out there are for on reason only ...money. The senior citizen populous has perhaps the greatest quantity of disposable income in this country ...and business owners want some of it ...seniors don't want to spend all of it ...and it's a compromise between the two.

....if a comparable discount to the disabled community were put out there ...a movie theater will likely need to add more disabled seating / viewing areas ....and that cuts into their profit margin ....and depletes seating for the regular full-price movie-goer .

....at the end on all the break-in period ...Disney will look at what people are saying .....because it's somewhat in their best interest to do so ...but they will also put the financial impacts of any 'tweaks' under a micro-scope.

I agree, but do you think GAC/DAS isn't about money to Disney? Disney's reputation for accommodating disabilities drives a lot of business for them. One of the few demographics they had a stranglehold on even against Universal. Much like senior citizens, people with disabilities tend to have less disposable income due to therapies, medications, etc... Being known as an easily accessible, or in the case of some disabilities a recommended therapy, drives people to their parks that might not have been. This is the primary reason DAS/GAC exists in its current and former form. If Disney was only concerned with meeting legal requirements then it would be a far more restrictive program. GAC existed to entice the disabled to go to Disney where they typically might not have bothered with the trouble it would cause for them. DAS is their compromise to try to keep those ties with their disabled demographic while limiting the accommodation in the wake of FP+.

*Edited to add...IMO

 

[networkpro]

That's completely untrue about Epcot not celebrating Christmas. Epcot is completely decorated for Christmas and beautiful. You are missing out!

Not as muc

You're still not getting it. You're assuming GAC was always used as the cheater used it... unlimited FP entry for 12-14 hours a day that let them on a ride in the amount of time it took to walk thru the FP queue. What I'm saying is that for the people who genuinely needed the GAC that was never HOW it was used.

You need to step outside yourself and consider what limitations a disabled person has and how that affects how they experience Disney.

DAS does not properly address all these concerns. What it does do is prohibit the cheaters and abuse from mucking up the system. Yeah Disney! But what about that person who now deals with a less than equal experience?

I won't wander into the morass of "justice" that was brought up, its pointless, subjective and no one will ever agree on a common definition on a board.

We're quibbling about semantics. Everyone does not have the same abilities or disabilities so any one size fits all will never take into account every possible combination or permutation until we are all just heads floating in jars. What works for one might not work for everyone else. If there was a standard plug in ride vehicle "pod" for every attraction I could see the point if and only if it could be engineered to meet the same safety standards of having every possible seat equipped for accommodating any sort of guest. But people are not modules ...they come in all shapes, sizes, and abilities.

Disney actively discriminates economically .. those who cannot purchase admission are denied entry.

Disney IMHO has and will still try to reasonably accommodate most of their guests reasonable requests. But they are not going to replace all meat products with tofu, all gluten containing items with non gluten substitutes, or replace the beloved rodent and the menagerie of his other companions with substitutes.

 

[JerseyDad]

Not as muc


I won't wander into the morass of "justice" that was brought up, its pointless, subjective and no one will ever agree on a common definition on a board.

We're quibbling about semantics. Everyone does not have the same abilities or disabilities so any one size fits all will never take into account every possible combination or permutation until we are all just heads floating in jars. What works for one might not work for everyone else. If there was a standard plug in ride vehicle "pod" for every attraction I could see the point if and only if it could be engineered to meet the same safety standards of having every possible seat equipped for accommodating any sort of guest. But people are not modules ...they come in all shapes, sizes, and abilities.

Disney actively discriminates economically .. those who cannot purchase admission are denied entry.

Disney IMHO has and will still try to reasonably accommodate most of their guests reasonable requests. But they are not going to replace all meat products with tofu, all gluten containing items with non gluten substitutes, or replace the beloved rodent and the menagerie of his other companions with substitutes.

....reasonable. Important word ...particularly with regards to the ADA Laws. It's in the text more than just a few times ....because that's what's expected ...reasonable accommodations made for some guests.

....but ...for those that object to the changes ...it means something completely different.

....Disney will ...it seems ...try to keep as close to what that 'legal' definition of reasonable is ...while still trying to appear to be bending in favor of the disabled guest. If that guest however doesn't ascribe to the same definition ...that's where the friction will be generated.

 

[jaklgreen]

How I view Disney has nothing to do with the limits placed on us by my sons disability. The GAC just made the stress of trying to get around the park a little easier, it wasn't the only reason we went to Disney. But it certainly made it an easier decision when it came to deciding whether to renew or not.

Understand my point is not that I am threatening to go to Universal, its that when I make a decision on how to spend my money, DIsney simply has to fight for my money based on its merits as a theme park because its services for the disabled are no better than anyone else now.

Ah, see now that is my point. Disney will never have to "fight for my money" because to me, they have the "magic" that other parks do not have. I have been to the others and like them but they are not the same as WDW, to me. There is no other place that gives us the variety of entertainment for everyone at any age.

 

[rct247]

This illustration sums up perfectly what is provided to what was:

\

Equality at a Disney theme park would be that each person no matter what age, height, sex, weight, health, disability or ability would have to pay the same price and have no other choice but to use Fastpass or wait in the standby line. All given the same equal opportunity, but their personal limitations limited how they could enjoy the park. Even if all guests were given 2 freebie instant Fastpasses that would be equal, but not always justice.

Disney is already providing "justice". Although based on age, children's prices are lower because they typically can't ride as many attractions due to height restrictions. Babies are free because they are extremely limited. As for guest with disabilities, the DAS gives you the extra boost your need to possibly get in a few more attractions that Fastpass wouldn't. It shaves off a bit of the wait time to account for waiting when you return based on the Fastpass line or boarding procedures, and it also doesn't force you to stand or sit in an actual line. You are free to move about and possibly go do other things. All those things are the "crates" used in the picture, however, you notice, the people are getting the same experience (the ride and even a bit of the wait which is part of visiting a busy theme park).

What's also important to note is that the picture is in an ideal situation where the differences in the heights are equal to the generic crates used to make everyone the same height. In reality, the crates would have to be custom to built to every single person and even then, the height level can change if you are slouching or wearing different shoes or you can't even stand and need a chair. Disney can evaluate each person's needs and do their best to accommodate, but in the end all 45,000 guests that MK gets on an average day will not be 100% equal nor get 100% justice, but Disney provides the tools to help and the rest is actually in your hands on how prepared you are. It isn't perfect and won't be a perfect fit for everyone, but it is a good accommodation just not as overly great as it was before. It's up to you on if you choose to have a good time rather than expect that it won't work because you don't even try.

On a side note, many attractions cast members have told me that it seems to be going very smoothly other than a rare outburst at a high wait attraction. Most of the issues are at guest relations and even then it doesn't sound overly crazy.