GAC to Become DAS

[duchess1]

It has been stated a few times that there is a check code that will be added to the end of the documented return time on the DAS to ensure that this doesn't happen.

I thought they were switching to stamps eventually to prevent this kind of abuse.

 

[arko]

It has been stated a few times that there is a check code that will be added to the end of the documented return time on the DAS to ensure that this doesn't happen.

There is no check code, I am holding the one we used today and yesterday and there is

Attraction
Current Time
Wait Time
Return Time
Cast initials (I guess this is about as close to a check code as you will get)

Basically any member of your party can get it filled in, and when you return they mark a line through the entry.
One thing that was encouraged was to use fastpass in conjunction with the DAS and not feel guilty about it.

MK seemed to be taking wait time and substracting 15 minutes, Epcot was doing wait time minus 10 minutes.


And as was noticed standby wait times were just as bad as they have always been, soarin was 90 minutes, and the FP entrance was empty when we got there and we basically walked to the merge point alone. So there was no backup of fastpass+ at least on Soarin.

The biggest change I noticed with this policy is wheelchairs and scooters basically all being sent to standby as they will not give you a DAS for just being in a wheelchair, basically its get a fastpass or get in standby. Except for rides that indeed require an alternative entrance like SSE or POTC.

Edit: For those in wheelchairs that have other issues that would make the DAS a requirement be prepared to explain what you need to the CM at guest relations and that it is not because of the wheelchair or simply because you are in a wheelchair.

 

[BroganMc]

It has been stated a few times that there is a check code that will be added to the end of the documented return time on the DAS to ensure that this doesn't happen.

As has been said none of that is happening. It's just the CM initials. One of my rides (TSM) they used a green marker to write in the times. That's as "special" as it got.

I'd like to see those DAS cards scanned periodically so they can capture the data of exactly how it's being used. Also would be good if CMs wrote the date as well as time. Makes for some confusion if you got a time one day and didn't use it then go back the next. I could have ridden Test Track without obtaining any Return Time if I'd just gone back the next day at the time I was issued one the day before.

These are all issues to be worked out. It does concern me that so many people are reporting continuing issues with EPCOT Guest Relations. Every day I check there are more stories of guests being denied a DAS and specifically told the reason why is because it is only for autistic kids. I would have thought they straightened it out by now.

Also you do need to be clear about what your needs are if you are using a wheelchair. There's a bias against providing any further services with the assumption wheels solve everything. Ironic since before DAS was implemented and I questioned the CMs at rides I used GAC for they all assumed I'd just come back with a DAS card and get a return time. They didn't believe me when I said the way the policy was written I thought I'd have trouble getting one from Guest Relations. (I was actually surprised when the manager decided to give me one at EPCOT. I didn't say anything different to him than I did the initial CM. And the manager was adamant about telling me it wouldn't keep me away from all waiting or lines. It actually sounded like he was reading some of the posting here assuming the GAC was my "golden ticket". But I guess I effectively explained the reasons for my request.)

Honestly I think by the time they'e done tweaking the new system it will have a lot in common with the old. The issues I'm seeing and their resolutions create more harm than the old system did. Who thinks telling a guest to just "push their way thru a line" is a good idea? Seriously!

 

[pddmom]

Getting into a tussle with autistic people who don't know their own strength is not fun. They can do a lot of damage. People unfortunately do not want to do harm to the aggressor though as they know its not their fault. I've been in situations like that before and it is not something I want to repeat. But when the fight is on, fight is on.

Umm really???? That has to be the stupidest yet on this thread, and that is saying A LOT! There have been many negative comments, misinformed comments (especially the ones how we, parents, should discipline away the autism, people yelling bad stuff at our kids, KIDS!!) Are you really encouraging fighting with a person with autism?

 

[Aurora1]

Umm really???? That has to be the stupidest yet on this thread, and that is saying A LOT! There have been many negative comments, misinformed comments (especially the ones how we, parents, should discipline away the autism, people yelling bad stuff at our kids, KIDS!!) Are you really encouraging fighting with a person with autism?

I think you're reading his comment wrong. He's not encouraging a fight with an autistic person, but if an autistic child/adult comes towards you fighting, he's not just going to stand there and take the beating. I teach autistic children, and our school has us go through very specific training for dealing with physical outbursts from our students. We've seen teachers end up with black eyes, bites, and a few broken fingers before in the process of trying to stop a child from doing more damage to themselves, to classmates and to the teachers. Rereading that comment may help you.

 

[Goofyernmost]

...me thinks that exceeding what is required to the point that it is "better" than what those that "don't need it" ...is in fact a violation ...so, technically, ADA can be violated "in the reverse" ...



....I think a fairly key word in the above is "equal" ....only 5 letters but pretty powerful in the eyes of the law. That said ....Disney has endeavored to provide a "better experience" for those that claim that they cannot ...EVER ...stand on line. With an attempt to make the line "experience" only last 10 minutes or so (as part of a DAS 'get a return time" system) ...they have accommodated the disabled. Yet ...even that is not enough for those that are rallying against the change. The ADA Law does allow for positive 'modifications' of the law to help those that need help ...but there is clearly an inferred limitation of what or how far you can, or need to go.

....there are those that will debate the above sections of the law and it's 'true' meaning. I think anything can be subject to debate. What cannot be debated is the fact that Disney has attempted to correct a situation that has for quite some time ...been spiraling out of control.

What is written and what is enforced are commonly two different things. Even a court of law would look at something like this as frivolous. I mean, let's see, someone is suing Disney because they gave a disabled person a three minute jump on the line or a way to make their access a bit easier? I bet Disney would love that publicity.

 

[networkpro]

Umm really???? That has to be the stupidest yet on this thread, and that is saying A LOT! ?

I'd tack yours up near the top as you've just glossed over the content in favor of your preconceived agenda. The poster referred to self defense if physically attacked by a cognitively impaired human. IMHO that's reasonable and well within the self defense statues of the law. Its the civil and criminal exposure that's assumed by the guardian when they knowingly bring their ward into contact with the public.

Frankly this thread has devolved into two camps which are heck bent on planting their flags and tearing down the other.

 

[unkadug]

Umm really???? That has to be the stupidest yet on this thread, and that is saying A LOT! There have been many negative comments, misinformed comments (especially the ones how we, parents, should discipline away the autism, people yelling bad stuff at our kids, KIDS!!) Are you really encouraging fighting with a person with autism?

You don't realize that he is a police officer. You don't expect a police officer to stand by and allow their gun to be taken, now do you?

 

[pais]

...this flipped on a light-bulb over my dome. I saw a section of the ADA Law that pertains to situations such as this ....it is as follows:



....just something to ponder ....particularly if you are going to publicly state that person(s) may get harmed by a person of substantial physical stature should they become volatile or agitated.

Interesting, Jerseydad. Another thing she needs to think about--the only 'lines' her son will have to wait in will be the 5-10 minute Fast Pass lines. The people that her son might hurt could be cancer stricken children, children with brittle bones (etc etc etc) also in that FP line with a DAS card.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Yes I thought about that too. I think Autism Hippie was just so riled about about her cause she didn't think everything through.

Which leaves me to believe that the kid wasn't violent at all, but, that is what she was saying for justifying HER ability to get to the front of the line when she really didn't have a good reason. In other words, she's lying through her teeth. (If she has any)

 

[JerseyDad]

What is written and what is enforced are commonly two different things. Even a court of law would look at something like this as frivolous. I mean, let's see, someone is suing Disney because they gave a disabled person a three minute jump on the line or a way to make their access a bit easier? I bet Disney would love that publicity.

....well ...I doubt ...as you probably do too ...that there are numerous 'code enforcement' agents roaming the Disney grounds looking to hand out a violation.

....however ...because Disney is "big business" ...I do think that any lawsuit brought against them for a 'reverse discrimination' operation policy that may affect ADA Law ...wouldn't be immediately thrown out. I would also guess that any lawsuit would have to be brought as a class action, since it affects hundreds of thousands of non-disabled guests. You are probably right that the named plaintiff wouldn't be very "popular" ...but in matters of the law and lawsuits ...no one is trying to become the prom king or queen ...it's about money.

....and, it's not really a 3 minute "jump" ....it's all about "the wait on the line" ....(ie: 10 minutes vs 90 minutes) or who's getting to skip the line completely ...etc. Granted, what Disney is putting into place ...is ...I think ...very much in compliance with ADA and doesn't constitute a reverse discrimination violation (at this time) ...however ...if they slip backwards upon getting outside pressure ...who knows where they will go with policy?

.....I do think that the previous GAC, and how it was regulated ....or ...not regulated ...in many ways did violate the ADA Law. I also feel that is why (Much to the objection of persons in the handicapped crowd ) ...that Disney has pretty clearly added the word "disabled" to the card. They are now falling into rather strict compliance with the ADA Laws ....and in doing so ...added "disabled" to the passes name to assist them in defending their position against lawsuits from disability advocacy groups. It also helps them defend themselves in a case where they may refuse to issue the card / or revoke it ...in instances of abuse / fraud (ie: non disabled person using it, etc.).

...as far as poor publicity related to a suit against Disney? I think they'd smell like a rose no matter what. Let's say that a suit was brought NOW based on past actions related to poor management of the GAC ...and the non-disabled folks who had been discriminated against. Disney's defense position would be that "we were only trying to be / were guilty of ...being overly sensitive / helpful to the disabled" ....and ..."if being 'overly nice' is wrong ...so be it". They'd never lose face in that battle.

 

[JerseyDad]

Which leaves me to believe that the kid wasn't violent at all, but, that is what she was saying for justifying HER ability to get to the front of the line when she really didn't have a good reason. In other words, she's lying through her teeth. (If she has any)

....I don't doubt her "stretching the truth" (I'm being nice ....my cruel shoes got wet and are drying out on the back porch)

....she does however have a blog post that indicated that he once needed to be removed from another venue in handcuffs. So ...from her lips to the world's ears ...she said it ....we didn't...

 

[pais]

....well ...I doubt ...as you probably do too ...that there are numerous 'code enforcement' agents roaming the Disney grounds looking to hand out a violation.

....however ...because Disney is "big business" ...I do think that any lawsuit brought against them for a 'reverse discrimination' operation policy that may affect ADA Law ...wouldn't be immediately thrown out. I would also guess that any lawsuit would have to be brought as a class action, since it affects hundreds of thousands of non-disabled guests. You are probably right that the named plaintiff wouldn't be very "popular" ...but in matters of the law and lawsuits ...no one is trying to become the prom king or queen ...it's about money.

....and, it's not really a 3 minute "jump" ....it's all about "the wait on the line" ....(ie: 10 minutes vs 90 minutes) or who's getting to skip the line completely ...etc. Granted, what Disney is putting into place ...is ...I think ...very much in compliance with ADA and doesn't constitute a reverse discrimination violation (at this time) ...however ...if they slip backwards upon getting outside pressure ...who knows where they will go with policy?

.....I do think that the previous GAC, and how it was regulated ....or ...not regulated ...in many ways did violate the ADA Law. I also feel that is why (Much to the objection of persons in the handicapped crowd ) ...that Disney has pretty clearly added the word "disabled" to the card. They are now falling into rather strict compliance with the ADA Laws ....and in doing so ...added "disabled" to the passes name to assist them in defending their position against lawsuits from disability advocacy groups. It also helps them defend themselves in a case where they may refuse to issue the card / or revoke it ...in instances of abuse / fraud (ie: non disabled person using it, etc.).

...as far as poor publicity related to a suit against Disney? I think they'd smell like a rose no matter what. Let's say that a suit was brought NOW based on past actions related to poor management of the GAC ...and the non-disabled folks who had been discriminated against. Disney's defense position would be that "we were only trying to be / were guilty of ...being overly sensitive / helpful to the disabled" ....and ..."if being 'overly nice' is wrong ...so be it". They'd never lose face in that battle.

Beautifully put. I also believe that the media is to be blamed for much of the hysteria over the demise of the GAC. Early headlines screamed things like the disabled are no longer welcome, the disabled will have to wait. I don't recall exactly but when the news first came out some of the headlines were downright slanderous. No wonder some people got extremely upset. It was extremely unfair to Disney, a company which has bent over backwards to be inclusive of all.

 

[Goofyernmost]

....well ...I doubt ...as you probably do too ...that there are numerous 'code enforcement' agents roaming the Disney grounds looking to hand out a violation.

....however ...because Disney is "big business" ...I do think that any lawsuit brought against them for a 'reverse discrimination' operation policy that may affect ADA Law ...wouldn't be immediately thrown out. I would also guess that any lawsuit would have to be brought as a class action, since it affects hundreds of thousands of non-disabled guests. You are probably right that the named plaintiff wouldn't be very "popular" ...but in matters of the law and lawsuits ...no one is trying to become the prom king or queen ...it's about money.

....and, it's not really a 3 minute "jump" ....it's all about "the wait on the line" ....(ie: 10 minutes vs 90 minutes) or who's getting to skip the line completely ...etc. Granted, what Disney is putting into place ...is ...I think ...very much in compliance with ADA and doesn't constitute a reverse discrimination violation (at this time) ...however ...if they slip backwards upon getting outside pressure ...who knows where they will go with policy?

.....I do think that the previous GAC, and how it was regulated ....or ...not regulated ...in many ways did violate the ADA Law. I also feel that is why (Much to the objection of persons in the handicapped crowd ) ...that Disney has pretty clearly added the word "disabled" to the card. They are now falling into rather strict compliance with the ADA Laws ....and in doing so ...added "disabled" to the passes name to assist them in defending their position against lawsuits from disability advocacy groups. It also helps them defend themselves in a case where they may refuse to issue the card / or revoke it ...in instances of abuse / fraud (ie: non disabled person using it, etc.).

...as far as poor publicity related to a suit against Disney? I think they'd smell like a rose no matter what. Let's say that a suit was brought NOW based on past actions related to poor management of the GAC ...and the non-disabled folks who had been discriminated against. Disney's defense position would be that "we were only trying to be / were guilty of ...being overly sensitive / helpful to the disabled" ....and ..."if being 'overly nice' is wrong ...so be it". They'd never lose face in that battle.

That was what I meant when I said that Disney would love it, but, I have to disagree with you as to the idea that a lawsuit would ever get heard. We must remember that in spite of Disney being a big company, they are not providing an essential service. It's a luxury when you throw out all the emotional baggage, that a court would, just look at it for what is being deprived and for whom.

No, to my knowledge there are not ADA agents in existence. It's mostly just a law that comes under some other jurisdiction (I'm not sure which one) and they would only investigate if they received a complaint about someone not receiving the regulated provisions. My opinion is that anyone in charge of that would probably just roll over, yawn and go back to sleep. For them to enforce that provision it would mean that those that are truly, deservedly benefiting would be once again cut short.

 

[Goofyernmost]

....I don't doubt her "stretching the truth" (I'm being nice ....my cruel shoes got wet and are drying out on the back porch)

....she does however have a blog post that indicated that he once needed to be removed from another venue in handcuffs. So ...from her lips to the world's ears ...she said it ....we didn't...

He was probably beating up on her because he was sick of her crap. If that were the case let me be the first in line to hand him a shovel to whack her with.

If true, that woman should be fined and charged with public endangerment and soon before someone gets seriously hurt.

 

[JerseyDad]

He was probably beating up on her because he was sick of her crap. If that were the case let me be the first in line to hand him a shovel to whack her with.

If true, that woman should be fined and charged with public endangerment and soon before someone gets seriously hurt.

......found the link to her blog post: http://autismhippie.blogspot.com/2013/09/lockup-raw-strawberry-festival.html

......for anyone interested.

 

[duchess1]

He was probably beating up on her because he was sick of her crap. If that were the case let me be the first in line to hand him a shovel to whack her with.

If true, that woman should be fined and charged with public endangerment and soon before someone gets seriously hurt.

I think she was trying to provoke him into acting out in front of the CM because it would get her what she wanted - a FOTL pass. She probably told the poor kid that he couldn't come to Disney anymore. Her story just doesn't add up at all. She says now that she had an aide with her during the trip to help with him, so why didn't she leave him outside GR while she got his DAS - oh yeah, because then she couldn't put on her show for the CM.

Her blog belies her recent statements. She said that her son was taken away in handcuffs because he couldn't learn how to act properly at the fair, but he can't seem to learn that when it comes to Disney? Someone wants some publicity and free stuff.

 

[flynnibus]

No, I doubt ADA will ever care as long as the accommodations exceed regulations. They are not going to fight a battle with no violations. More is always better then just what is necessary. They can only violate ADA in a negative sense. There is no guideline for exceeding those lines. Think of it as an "at least equal mandate" nothing less.

No, to my knowledge there are not ADA agents in existence. It's mostly just a law that comes under some other jurisdiction (I'm not sure which one) and they would only investigate if they received a complaint about someone not receiving the regulated provisions. My opinion is that anyone in charge of that would probably just roll over, yawn and go back to sleep. For them to enforce that provision it would mean that those that are truly, deservedly benefiting would be once again cut short.

You can't 'exceed' standard of accommodation and get in trouble. The only place you could get in trouble with any such 'reverse..' whatever is you are forbidden from forcing a disabled person to take your accommodation. Basically, the disabled have the right to chose to pick the normal path, or your accommodation -- you can't force them to take the 'disabled path'. The whole idea the GAC violated the ADA by giving 'too much' and hence discriminating against the non-disabled is complete rubbish.

But you must treat a disability in a uniform manner. IE, I can't give special accommodation 'alpha' to 'Molly' for her disability and then not offer the same accommodation to someone else with the same issue. The problem here is you contradict yourself in what you set the definition of for the minimum reasonable accommodation you can offer. If I say, the minimum I can do for Molly is 'alpha' ... and then turn around and offer less to someone else - you've opened yourself to be challenged. Even if you do it as an 'above and beyond...' you open yourself up to a troublemaker challenging you. They could argue they need nothing less than 'alpha' to meet their limitations.. and you would have a hard time arguing you can't offer 'alpha' when you just did to someone else with the same issue. It's very difficult to defend what is the 'least' someone can get by with.. especially when the law favors the disabled. This situation of offering varied solutions undermines a business' position to defend their choice of accommodations - so you must be careful.

and there are no 'ADA agents'. Compliance is defined only in the court of law. The Dept of Justice is responsible for interpreting the standards and will investigate and issue their findings.. but it's enforceable only in civil courts. The DoJ would send letters, publish the findings, etc and call you not in compliance. But a defendant could challenge the DoJ's findings and interpretations in court as part of their defense of any lawsuit brought up regarding discrimination under the ADA.

Where people get confused is... 3rd parties (even local government in places) will offer compliance reviews and businesses use them as fodder to help defend against any claims... but it still boils down to civil court. The other area of confusion is the incorporation of ADA design standards into building codes. Since the ADA standards are incorporated into most building codes now... and building codes ARE checked and issued permits based on compliance with the building code.. many people would define a BUILDING or space as 'compliant' based on their ability to pass the building inspectors. However, compliance is not just about your physical spaces.. so saying a building is compliant is only part of the story.

 

[BaconPancakes]

Autism Harpy is a piece of trash. Can we please stop giving this worthless pile any more attention she so greatly craves?

 

[duchess1]

Autism Harpy is a piece of trash. Can we please stop giving this worthless pile any more attention she so greatly craves?

I was just over at the WDW Facebook page (read the reviews). It's like an epidemic of entitlement and selfishness over there and I had to stop because it was making me sick to my stomach. There's a woman who is upset about losing her perk of looping. If it was raining, she would let her son ride the GMR over and over again (and probably whatever other ride he was on) until the rain stopped because he cannot stand to get wet. Yet, she takes him to Florida during the rainy season...