Frozen ride replacing Maelstrom?

[Magenta Panther]

The WDI ppl working on this are surprised that guest feedback has been kinda angry at the notion of Maelstrom being replaced by a Frozen ride. I suspect they feel that most of their guests will be agreeing with you in the end. They might be right.

Sorry - I actually deleted that post when I fully realized where the conversation was going.

I would NOT be pleased with Maelstrom being replaced by Frozen, FWIW. I'm horrified by it, frankly. Not just because I thought Frozen was meh, but because I think Maelstrom is a great little ride and should not be replaced by ANYTHING. It's the first thing I hit when I visit WS. It's the main reason I go there. Hey, I'm all for a Frozen attraction - in Fantasyland, where it belongs. But in WS? Replacing Maelstrom? That sucks!!!!!

 

[Cesar R M]

Well this thread has been fun. Sorry I haven't been keeping tabs on all developments here, but I usually only post things here when, you know, I actually have something worthwhile to say.

Frozen for Maelstrom is not a rumor. It is a confirmed attraction with a budget that was reduced by 40% before receiving approval to go ahead. Epcot is preparing to close Maelstrom in short order to make way for it. This is reality. This is what Disney is doing.

With respect to re-theming Norway into whatever the kingdom was from Frozen, this is an issue they are going to have to deal with. Whether or not they want to half- this or refresh the land and do it right, Norway is finished when Maelstrom closes. Again, reality. This is what Disney is choosing to do with their theme parks.

Still unbelievable..
I wonder if these guys who had this idea are patting each other's back.

 

[pheneix]

People ask your questions and rather than giving a simple answer, you give them smarmy dodges. I'm just trying to figure out what it is that you are claiming that the rumor is. Earlier, you claimed that they would be removing all reference to Norway from the WS pavilion and retheming the entire pavilion as Arendelle. I'm merely asking you whether you still assert that this is the plan or not.

Yes, right now this is the plan that they are dealing with. Pulling a Fiesta Tour on this attraction while leaving the rest of the pavilion as-is; simply not an option.

I'm only being snarky with my replies because I know they will be examined under a microscope by my new favorite fan on here. If someone is gonna get all hot and bothered over something I write, I might as well give them good reason to.

 

[pheneix]

Bold statement, right there...

Lol I see what you did...

 

[pheneix]

Still unbelievable..
I wonder if these guys who had this idea are patting each other's back.

Probably not. These pitches are some last ditch efforts at saving jobs. If you guys recall, around this time last year was when all the crazy DHS work was pitched and fought for. It's that time of the year again!

 

[Pieter]

At the very least Maelstrom needs to be updated. I go to EPCOT a few times a year and only ride Maelstrom every couple of years. So I am usually skipping it because it feels so outdated. And that movie at the end…..

Frozen should probably stay in the Magic Kingdom, but update Maelstrom too.

 

[Lee]

At the very least Maelstrom needs to be updated. I go to EPCOT a few times a year and only ride Maelstrom every couple of years. So I am usually skipping it because it feels so outdated. And that movie at the end…..

Frozen should probably stay in the Magic Kingdom, but update Maelstrom too.

There was a proposal for a Maelstrom refresh a few years ago. Didn't make the cut.

 

[pheneix]

One last bit of from me for today, and this has nothing to do with theme park rides.

A wise bit of philosophy that I have picked up when talking to people on the internet is, "love everybody, hate everything."

And I leave it at that.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Get ready to get ed dude.

Good thing Ive been studying the force. Dark side, here I come!

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Geeze, so much bad news and spirit is barely even around lately (besides one basic post that set this crazy train off), I am not looking forward to reading this site in the coming weeks and months. Even less happy to be a WDW fan in the coming years if both imagineers and executives are both beginning to run together in how they view and care about the parks...

So anyone want to take bets on how many RPMs Walt is reaching in his grave now?

 

[Gomer]

Yes, right now this is the plan that they are dealing with. Pulling a Fiesta Tour on this attraction while leaving the rest of the pavilion as-is; simply not an option.

Without getting into too much privileged information, can you give us any insight into why you think it is impossible to take the Mexico route and just add the ride. Maybe I’m grasping at straws here, but I don’t see the ride overlay as being significantly different in WDI’s eyes than the Anna and Elsa meet and greet or the princess character meal. I wouldn’t like it, but it wouldn’t kill the existing remainder of the pavilion if the sign in back said Frozen instead of Maelstrom.
Not doubting you, just desperately trying to understand the justification for re-theming the entire pavilion.

 

[bhg469]

Geeze, so much bad news and spirit is barely even around lately (besides one basic post that set this crazy train off), I am not looking forward to reading this site in the coming weeks and months. Even less happy to be a WDW fan in the coming years if both imagineers and executives are both beginning to run together in how they view and care about the parks...

Like i have said on other threads. In the 20 years since I've visited universal I truly believe they are more Disney, than Disney is these days. Springfield, and moe's tavern struck an emotional chord with me and even though its cheesey and not many people rave about it but I was transported to moe's tavern. New Fantasy land transported me to a crowded mash up of disney cartoons.

 

[NormC]

... just desperately trying to understand the justification for re-theming the entire pavilion.

My opinion on this (not factual) is that because Norway no longer supports the pavilion Disney can do what they like with it. Frozen is based on Norway (even if the book wasn't) so it is an easy refurbishment to ride the Frozen frenzy.

 

[Lee]

Without getting into it too much privileged information, can you give us any insight into why you think it is impossible to take the Mexico route and just add the ride. Maybe I’m grasping at straws here, but I don’t see the ride overlay as being significantly different in WDI’s eyes than the Anna and Elsa meet and greet or the princess character meal. I wouldn’t like it, but it wouldn’t kill the existing remainder of the pavilion if the sign in back said Frozen instead of Maelstrom.
Not doubting you, just desperately trying to understand the justification for re-theming the entire pavilion.

My guess is that if the ride gets Frozen, the gift shop will have to be transformed into a Frozen/character shop. Then you would have the ride, the shop, the M&G, the stuff in the church and the princess meal. What's left of Norway at that point?

In Mexico, the 'toons are confined to the ride, and even there are only a small part. Aside from the occasional Mexican Donald foam-head, the pavilion still keeps its identity.

 

[bhg469]

My guess is that if the ride gets Frozen, the gift shop will have to be transformed into a Frozen/character shop. Then you would have the ride, the shop, the M&G, the stuff in the church and the princess meal. What's left of Norway at that point?

In Mexico, the 'toons are confined to the ride, and even there are only a small part. Aside from the occasional Mexican Donald foam-head, the pavilion still keeps its identity.

Pastry and the interational CMs...

 

[Kman101]

It's because WDW and TDO know they can phone it in and it will be seen as "good enough". And people will still pay, and will still visit. That's why the magic is being lost, that's why attractions are value-engineered. Just look at Under The Sea. DCA is fixing it. TDO likely sees no need to because it's "good enough" and people will still ride it (FYI, I'm seeing more and more simple 20 minute lines than the insane 50-60 minute lines of the past). That is where the problem lies and that ride is the perfect example.

And then you will have the guests who insist everything is wonderful and amazing and we should shut up and be grateful. Don't get me wrong, I do still go to the parks, but it has been a very long hiatus for me in going to them, for the simple fact that nothing new was developed there. Period. And not that what was done now was some big huge draw but I still care about the parks and want them to be the best that they can be.

They continue to rip away the little things (and those little things add up to someone wanting to repeat visit, so while you may say it's "not a big deal" in the long run, it is). People went out of their way to look for Push, to look for certain entertainment offerings, to look for those little things that people rave about. What happens when all of that's gone? That's what made Disney stand out. That's what put them above the rest, the clear care that went into things.

Now they slap up some ridiculous paint scheme in EPCOT and I have to be lectured on "oh well, at least they're painting". Um, no. It should never be "oh well ... good enough".

Would you say that with your car? Oh well, they fixed it up good enough. No, you want your car to be in perfect condition and enjoyable to drive. You can only paint lipstick on a pig for so long.

And I personally don't think parents give their kids enough credit where the theme parks are concerned. Kids to me seem very interested in the culture and the experience and the rides their parents went on, not because it's overlayed with characters. That's the parents believing it will make it more appealing. Why were so many rides and experiences just fine for practically 20 some odd years (and still are around the world and at Disneyland?).

Sorry for the rant but I felt it needed to be said.

 

[doctornick]

I know a lot of Norway CM's don't like it when parents show their kids the Norway pavilion and instead telling them about Norway they just say "This is where Anna and Elsa live"

Yeah, that's silly. In actuality, Norway is where one eyed gods, vikings and trolls live. Duh. (kidding, of course, and it's sad if guests do refer to Norway only in the context of Frozen.)

 

[Gomer]

My guess is that if the ride gets Frozen, the gift shop will have to be transformed into a Frozen/character shop. Then you would have the ride, the shop, the M&G, the stuff in the church and the princess meal. What's left of Norway at that point?

In Mexico, the 'toons are confined to the ride, and even there are only a small part. Aside from the occasional Mexican Donald foam-head, the pavilion still keeps its identity.

I see what you are saying. We aren’t necessarily talking plopping a giant ice castle on the rooftop between Mexico and China, but more of a dilution of the Norwegian theming into a purely fantastical Frozen village theme. That at least makes more sense to me, whether I like it or not. I still don’t see how Disney changes the name from Norway to Arrendale (or however its spelled) without committing to changing all of WS though. It would stick out like a sore thumb to have a fictional land flanked by 11 real countries.

All in all though, it does seem rather short sighted by Disney to take that route. Frozen may stick, but its current popularity will fade. All things do. And in ten years when frozen merch can’t sustain an entire pavilion, they’ll be forced to re-theme again, whereas adding just a ride and some merch would be easily lifted out to replace with whatever new version of Norway a new generation of imagineers could come up with. Someone will end up spending in the future to fix this when it quickly becomes dated, just like Tiki Room.

 

[Gomer]

Pastry and the interational CMs...

Great pastries though. Honestly, the loss of the bakery would sting for me personally more than the loss of Maelstrom. But I acknowledge that I have an unhealthy love of Lefse that not all share.

 

[Texas84]

On a side note, I just noticed the sign in the queue that says you will see a movie about modern Norway.