From the OS: Gator drags child into Seven Seas Lagoon

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englanddg

englanddg

One Little Spark...
DancingPhoenix said:
The title of that article bugs me, it's so click bait-y.

"Gator Attack: Disney Knew of Problems, Staffer Asked for Fence at Lagoon (Exclusive)"

I mean yeah, they probably should put up fences or more than a few warning signs but the phrasing of that article almost makes it sound like Disney was being neglectful, when I'm pretty sure that isn't the case. At the end of the day it's a horrible accident, and I don't think putting the blame on anyone in particular will help at all. Nature is nature :\
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The mass media isn't about truth, it's about attention.
 
csmat99

csmat99

Well-Known Member
flynnibus said:
Read the earlier posted articles. There is plenty of case law limiting liability when it comes to situations with native wildlife. There is interpretation areas when it comes to warnings... But there is also case law against having to do so in fl because they are a known native issue. They wouldn't be liable for the gators actions, or be negelent because it was there... But how much warning is needed would be tested.

The kid died... Let's be serious - Disney is going to offer a huge settlement right up front. The only question is will a lawyer push for more
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The law is quite clear on this and why like you said Disney won't let it get to court. They would lose and it won't even be close. It not just about the warning. Disney has an obligation to protect it's guests from harm that they are aware of. And Disney of course knows there are gators in the water because they remove them frequently. So as far as the law is concerned the fact that a gator came and grabbed a child on a beach that didn't have a fence to guard against such an attack is enough to have them lose the case.
 
englanddg

englanddg

One Little Spark...
csmat99 said:
The law is quite clear on this and why like you said Disney won't let it get to court. They would lose and it won't even be close. It not just about the warning. Disney is an obligation to protect it's guests from harm that they are aware of. And Disney of course knows there are gators in the water because they remove them frequently. So as far as the law is concerned the fact that a gator came and grabbed a child on a beach that didn't have a fence to guard against such an attack is enough to have them lose the case.
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Actually, yes, the law is quite clear on this. And, it's questionable if Disney has any civil liability, and they clearly do not have any criminal liability. Do your research before you spout off.
 
TLtron

TLtron

Well-Known Member
To keep other families in the future from suffering the same heartbreak as the family of this little boy, everyone needs to speak up if you witness someone feeding an alligator. Feeding gators is a crime in the state of Florida just like shoplifting or any other illegal activity. It should not be overlooked as tourists just being tourists. Report it! In this day & age of cameras on every phone...take a picture or record the offenders in action. Report to local law enforcement: (407) 847-0176
 
Matt_Black

Matt_Black

Well-Known Member
englanddg said:
It hasn't been allowed there for decades.

Plus, anyone in their right mind would look at the untended waters just a few inches into SSL and say, no, no thanks. They are filled with nasty swamp grass and the color of the water is disgusting, not to mention the smell...

I still can't picture how anyone would let their child wade into that, even a few inches. The Disney beach areas, even around SSL, smell like the decomposing swamp bog they consist of.
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Well, it was dark. Maybe they didn't see how nasty it was. Of course, not being able to see what's in the water should be MORE incentive not to go into it, I would think....
 
englanddg

englanddg

One Little Spark...
TLtron said:
To keep other families in the future from suffering the same heartbreak as the family of this little boy, everyone needs to speak up if you witness someone feeding an alligator. Feeding gators is a crime in the state of Florida just like shoplifting or any other illegal activity. It should not be overlooked as tourists just being tourists. Report it! In this day & age of cameras on every phone...take a picture or record the offenders in action. Report to local law enforcement: (407) 847-0176
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I'll be sure to say something if I see something. I'll send an email to flag@whitehouse.gov...I'm sure it will be reviewed promptly and acted upon.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2009/08/04/facts-are-stubborn-things

(just in case you thought that was a joke, it wasn't)

Jeezus. The best thing to do is to shame them publically, not report it to some nameless organization that has no legal power (or even if they do won't do crap about it, as the powers that DID have authority over crocodile populations at Disney did crap, by their own admission). What do you think they are gonna do?

"I saw some dude down by the docks near this place feeding a croc"

"Ok sir, what place?"

"I dunno, the place near the bridge over the disneyland, where my kid wanted to ride the spiderman ride"

"Yes, we are on that immediately, we'll dispatch our crack teams in helicopters paid by taxpayers to track them down!"

Don't be stupid.
 
englanddg

englanddg

One Little Spark...
Matt_Black said:
Well, it was dark. Maybe they didn't see how nasty it was. Of course, not being able to see what's in the water should be MORE incentive not to go into it, I would think....
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Well, you've seen it I'm sure. The water there IS nasty. I wouldn't let my kid near it even at smaller water spots like CBR. It set off all sorts of "snakes and other critters" alarms...which, if you live in the south, you look at those largely stagnant waterways and see nothing but trouble.
 
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englanddg

englanddg

One Little Spark...
csmat99 said:
I'm sorry you couldn't be more wrong. A gator coming out of water to attack small prey is common occurrence.

I have done my research and wasn't spouting off. Like I said I know Disney's legal team and it will never get to court. But they wouldn't win.
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No, you haven't done your research. This was an attack by a wild animal on property.

You are correct, it will never get to court. But you are wrong that Disney has some serious civil liability.
 
TLtron

TLtron

Well-Known Member
englanddg said:
I'll be sure to say something if I see something. I'll send an email to flag@whitehouse.gov...I'm sure it will be reviewed promptly and acted upon.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2009/08/04/facts-are-stubborn-things

(just in case you thought that was a joke, it wasn't)

Jeezus. The best thing to do is to shame them publically, not report it to some nameless organization that has no legal power. What do you think they are gonna do?

"I saw some dude down by the docks near this place feeding a croc"

"Ok sir, what place?"

"I dunno, the place near the bridge over the disneyland, where my kid wanted to ride the spiderman ride"

"Yes, we are on that immediately, we'll dispatch our teams to track them down!"

Don't be stupid.
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You are talking to someone who, for the last 20-years has lived less than 135 steps from one of America's National Parks. Feeding wildlife, especially wildlife which can become dangerous to humans if it begins to associate us with free handouts, is something that is taken very seriously. Not too many years ago, a black bear in my area had to be put down due to idiot tourists feeding it, and ultimately, it bit a hiker because it was frustrated that said hiker didn't offer goodies like other humans it had encountered.

My home away from home includes many of Florida's hidden & not-so-hidden state parks. I can tell you first hand that nobody in law enforcement or the parks & rec dept. will laugh at, get angry at, or scoff at someone calling in a report of dangerous wildlife being fed. There is nothing "stupid" about it.

If you would like phone numbers or contacts to my local national park, or any of the various state parks I frequent in Fla...I will gladly PM them to you. Staff at any of these locations will gladly tell you how seriously they take the issue of dangerous wildlife being fed. The seriousness of this, as we sadly learned this week, does not change on Disney property.
 
Stripes

Stripes

Premium Member
What a terrible and tragic week for Orlando. RIP little guy. It really is amazing to me that someone with their whole life ahead of them could have something like this happen to them. Sad, very sad.

Legally, Disney will settle this, without a doubt, even if they feel they would win (don't want the bad press). I don't think anyone SHOULD be liable, but I'm no expert. Heaven forbid, if this were to happen to my child (shudder), I don't think I would blame any establishment for what happened, given the rarity and the odds being so small, it could've happened anywhere, at any time. Those who proclaim what Disney could've done are focusing solely on the circumstances under which the events unfolded, which is very simple minded. What if the gator came out of the water to get the child? The poor thing still wouldn't stand a chance. And a fence? It is completely inappropriate(and disgusting of me), but I have to laugh. https://twitter.com/sttbs73/status/743182953635667970
Obviously they don't know the slightest thing about gators. About the only thing Disney could've done is have patrols with shotguns ready, which isn't exactly what you want from a family-friendly environment, not to mention the outrage from animal rights groups (who are already upset by the death of at least 4 gators).

Again, assigning blame either to the parents or to Disney, is a terrible way of looking at this. The blame lies with the gator/the people who fed the sucker, and nothing else. The world has lost a poor youngster, who had an entire life in front of him. I can't fathom being one of the parents right now, I'd be racing through my mind, thinking of what I could've done that would have prevented this. I'd probably go insane, to be honest.

Edit: Reading some earlier comments sicken me. This thread should close.
 
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Marco226

Marco226

Well-Known Member
wgransone said:
We should probably close this thread- theres no point to argue anymore. Whats done is done and at the end of the day we can't bring back this child's life. Its terrible and its bringing out the worst of us and I wish I could take back a lot of the thing's I've said.
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Yeah I agree. I said a lot of mean stuff about the parents because I was really angry and didn't know who should be held accountable. In my mind, as I was getting information, it sounded like the parents allowed their kid to play in the dark murky water at night. I really think that's why a lot of people were upset at them and passed judgement so quickly. To us, we already knew about the dangerous animals of Florida that lurk in the water at night, but then as people on the thread started to give possible explanations as to why the parents did what they did, then my mind started to open up a little and suddenly there was a lot of gray area. I wasn't really angry at the parents. I was mad because a two year old kid lost his life so soon...

Until the parents or their representative officially come out with a statement, we will never truly know why this happened. After 80 pages of everyone's opinions, all that we have done, including myself, was assume. Whether you were in defense of the parents or against them, everyone who had an opinion about this tragedy based it on assumptions (except the details provided by eyewitnesses).

I say this because we really don't know if signs that said "Beware - alligators in water" would have saved anyone because we don't know if the parents even saw the signs to begin with (or do we?). We don't know if a fence or wall could have prevented this since we can't read people's minds and know if they (or alligators) would climb over them or not. We don't know if they were oblivious to danger or if they knowingly took a risk and ignored the signs. We don't know how THEY even interpreted the no swimming signs if they saw them. We don't know.

Lastly, I still think it's important to find out who or what is responsible. People now might think "What for? It's not gonna help the kid," or, "Why blame anyone? It's no one's fault." Of course it's someone's fault, whether it was someone today or the park designers 45 years ago. Finding out why this happened is important unless you all want more tragedies like this to keep happening. And I am not going to accept some people's point of view that bad stuff just happens because they do. They happen for a reason, and having such a passive stance on issues like these is dangerous because it means that a person is not willing to figure out why something is happening, which then allows the problem to continue. Those reasons need to be dealt with in order to prevent more loss of life.

Was it the parent's bad judgement? Lack of video surveillance? Lack of cast members to enforce the rules? Movie night on the beach?Like I said in my earlier posts, we can't fix a problem unless we first find out what caused the problem to begin with. And @The Mom and @LAM378, putting blame or finding out who or what is responsible isn't always necessarily because others are thinking "It can't happen to me or my family" like they're in denial or something. I mean, I can't speak for anyone else, so that might be the case sometimes for a lot of people. From what I learned in the Marine Corps, when someone is being blamed for something, it's about finding out the truth, correcting the behavior, and figuring out preventative solutions to problems so that it doesn't happen again and cause a bigger mess. I guess it really depends on what the issue is about for what I described to matter.

But, like I said, we're all just assuming things whether you're for the parents or not until the parents come out and explain their side of the story. One thing that we can assume, though, is the pain that they're in. So out of respect, I, too, think we should probably just stop talking about this until more official announcements are made.
 
G00fyDad

G00fyDad

Well-Known Member
natatomic said:
Okay, I don't want to derail this thread...

But, well, here I go.

You say you have kidS. More than one, then? How on earth do you keep BOTH eyes on BOTH kids 100% of the time? Do you glue them together when you take them to a playground? They NEVER play on two separate sructures? One goes down the slide while the other one climbs up the ladder? Heck, in the time it takes to SNEEZE a kid can dart off without you realizing it.
You say you're not perfect, but you're describing yourself as if you are.
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First, dial back the attitude. Second, Yes, I have two kids. One is 21 and the other is 12. So it was kind of easy watching one of my kids at that age at all times. No. I am not describing myself as perfect. I am describing myself as a responsible parent. I get so damn sick of hearing from parents like yourself that are so lazy that you allow your children to run off and do what they want while you are checking your Twitter feed. I see it all the time. Kids running around like s***less heathens under nobody's control/watch and where are the parents? Standing off to the side shooting the breeze or playing with their phones. That kid could get hurt and that parent would sit back and say the same stupid things you are saying. "He/she just ran off out of my eyesight for a second! That's just what kids do." Yes. The kids will try it, but it is YOUR JOB AS A PARENT to not allow them out of your sight. Especially in a situation that could cause them harm. So, if you don't want to be a real parent and keep an eye on your kids then fine, but don't project your own bad parenting onto others and act like they should be the same way with their children.
 
BigRedDad

BigRedDad

Well-Known Member
englanddg said:
No, you haven't done your research. This was an attack by a wild animal on property.

You are correct, it will never get to court. But you are wrong that Disney has some serious civil liability.
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If there is a lawsuit, Disney's lawyers will submit for immediate dismissal. The laws in FL are that the Fish and Wildlife Commission are responsible for the wildlife, this is a fact and not speculation. They are responsible for the waterways and areas on Disney's property, NOT Disney. The FWC cannot be sued because of actions of wildlife. Another entity cannot be held liable because the responsible entity cannot be sued.

The insurance company for Disney will not pay and put their lawyers to work simply because they know they have no liability. The fault of this is a WILD ALLIGATOR and nothing more. We can blame parents, the child, Disney, or whatever your heart or mind desires. The fact is the alligator is at fault and nothing else. It is also coming out that the boy was not in ankle deep water as specualted. The boy was found about the exact place where the alligator attacked...10-15 feet from shore. If you look at the pictures, the bottom of the lakes, especially at the GF, is filled with junk, you can't see anything in the muck. It gets even worse as it is stirred up. Most likely, the gator took him as food, got him under water, and tucked him into something for tenderizing (sorry, this is was they do) to come eat later.
 
Cosmic Commando

Cosmic Commando

Well-Known Member
dstrawn9889 said:
original poster wayyyyy not cool, but i had to repost this i found on my Fb feed
View attachment 146120

this is what gets you fired... A Disney World tragedy, joked about by a DISNEY employee, using a still from a Disney movie
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Not a Disney employee. That station is not owned by ABC.

jaklgreen said:
Makes sense. Maybe the sign meaning is different depending on where you are from. Growing up in the suburbs of Chicago, we went to the lake and were always told if the no swimming sign was up then you don't go into the water at all. Maybe that is what Disney assumed people would take it as when they posted it. I am sure they will be changing their signs to say stay out of water. I am still shocked how anyone can even get close to that nasty stuff.
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Given where you're from, that sounds like sewer overflow. Slightly different problem.
 
JohnD

JohnD

Well-Known Member
WEDwaydatamover

WEDwaydatamover

Well-Known Member
DisneyDreamer08- I read the story as well.

Yesterday I also heard a speaker essentially say that there have been no other RECENT gator attacks in the SAME MANNER.

Those were well-parced red flag words that indicated that this has happened before. Word games.

Sure enough.
 
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