From the OS: Gator drags child into Seven Seas Lagoon

[Bairstow]

What if no one is "at fault"?

Have we, as a litigious society, reached the point that such a concept is morally unacceptable?

 

[natatomic]

While I do share your opinion that it is not the parent's fault in this alligator case and I can understand your interpretation of the Cincinnati Zoo incident as not being the parents fault either, I do take issue with your comment that "we have all made that same mistake." No. As a matter of fact I have not. Am I perfect parent? Probably not, but I have never once been outside of my house and not known where either two of my children are at all times. We have gone to a great many places that I would have preferred to be able to spend time paying attention to the sites and sounds around me. Unfortunately, my children take precedent. They are my focus 100% of the time. That's what I signed up for when we decided to have children. You pay attention to your children. Again, do I think this father was at fault for not watching his child next to the lake? No. He was watching his child. There's nothing he could have done about this short of not allowing his child near the water. But I understand that this is a terrible accident. I'm not faulting the father or the mother. The Cincinnati Zoo issue, well, that's a whole other bag of oranges to your apples. But please don't lump everybody else into the same basket as you when you say that we've all done this. Because no, we have not ALL done this.

Okay, I don't want to derail this thread...

But, well, here I go.

You say you have kidS. More than one, then? How on earth do you keep BOTH eyes on BOTH kids 100% of the time? Do you glue them together when you take them to a playground? They NEVER play on two separate sructures? One goes down the slide while the other one climbs up the ladder? Heck, in the time it takes to SNEEZE a kid can dart off without you realizing it.
You say you're not perfect, but you're describing yourself as if you are.

 

[LAKid53]

They could, and should, have issued a more lenient catch and release policy for WDW properties (and other lake properties, like Universal) due to the nature of tourists unfamiliar with the wildlife dangers of the area, etc.

This is not the case.

So, Huh, Yes.

Uh, no again. FWC regulations regarding wildlife must comply with both Florida statute and US FWS regulations of said species as governed by federal law. So, FWC just cannot change their rules without statutory changes, since their authority derives from said statute.

Oh, and all changes to agency rules must go through extensive public review and comment as per Chapter 120, F.A.C.

 

[EngineJoe]

What's sick is all these creatures who are blaming Disney and angling for a legal resolution in this time of tragedy from a freak accident. The Sharks can't even wait a day before treating humans as $$$ or law exercises.

If you don't like Disney just boycott it and don't go instead of complaining.

 

[flynnibus]

Are there any surveillance video cameras pointed toward the incident location? People tend to think that WDW has more security cameras than they actually have.

Night vision detail doesn't really work well at long distances.. you lose a lot of resolution/detail with low-light stuff. Your common IR illuminated stuff isn't going to work well over large outdoor areas.

 

[Andrew C]

original poster wayyyyy not cool, but i had to repost this i found on my Fb feed
View attachment 146120

this is what gets you fired... A Disney World tragedy, joked about by a DISNEY employee, using a still from a Disney movie

That person is definitely gone...horrible

 

[thomas998]

Not sure if this has been mentioned in the wake of this horrible event, but I think Disney being held responsible may just be dependent on it being a Disney Sanctioned movie night on their resort's beach. This was organized and arranged by them. This was advertised by them. We're not talking about it being random guests setting up a projector that works on an iphone to watch a movie on the beach and others congregating. The only reason these people were on that beach, at that time of night, was for this event. It was up to Disney to properly secure it or just err on the side of safety and move it elsewhere, like poolside. Especially if this is a known time for gators to feed. This poor family.

Well I might agree if Disney set up the movie night so that visitor needed to be on the beach near the edge of the water to see the movie.... but I don't think that was how it was done.... I'm not familiar with every location they do the movies at but ones that I have seen were not positioned so that you needed to be where these people were they were closer to the resort than they were to the water.... but again I don't know where all of them happen so it is possible.

 

[Blairnicol]

Yeah, that could work. It would look pretty nice too, and could be themed to each resort.

The shoreline is ugly anyway, so I don't see why anyone would want to go near SSL's waterline...

When I first read the story, that was all I could think of...WHY would someone want to wade or allow their child to wade in THAT water? Gators aside...

This is my thing...this is a shot of the beach from the GFV. That water/shoreline is GROSS! And there is plenty of room for things to hide. The sand is lovely & I love going out there and sitting on the sand, but I would never go in the water. And it's super dark down there at night. Maybe I've just had one too many run-ins with water moccasins...

 

[flynnibus]

What if no one is "at fault"?

Have we, as a litigious society, reached the point that such a concept is morally unacceptable?

Sometimes just getting things 'into the rear view mirror' is worth the cost alone for companies. They want these kinds of images and thoughts to fade into the past.. not be constantly brought up.

 

[englanddg]

Uh, no again. FWC regulations regarding wildlife must comply with both Florida statute and US FWS regulations of said species as governed by federal law. So, FWC just cannot change their rules without statutory changes, since their authority derives from said statute.

I should clarify. I'm not speaking to their civil or criminal liability, merely their ethical one.

The Federal and State bureaucracy, and their monopoly on the treatment of these animals, whilst a good idea in concept, in practice, makes it difficult to deal with these sorts of situations proactively. And THAT is what I meant by their joint liability.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ests-about-alligators/?utm_term=.bf7a71a29fbe

 

[Daveeeeed]

This was an absolute terrible tragic event, but it could have been avoided. I stay at the Shade's of Green almost every time. Sure it isn't owned or operated by Disney anymore, but it is literally walking distance from where this happened. There are signs that say DO NOT FEED or go near the gators. Non of the resorts on Seven Seas Lagoon say anything besides "No Swimming." Disney is screwed...

 

[Bairstow]

Sometimes just getting things 'into the rear view mirror' is worth the cost alone for companies. They want these kinds of images and thoughts to fade into the past.. not be constantly brought up.

I was referring more to the tenor of the conversation here than what the family or the company may choose to do.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I understand completely. I often feel guilty when I doubt certain stories at first blush but there have been so many charlatans creating drama out of whole cloth or exaggerating the events that, in the early phases at least, there is a small part of me that can't help but wonder.

If there's physical evidence of an attack, I'm sold.

These things are so insanely rare.... So many questions that I want answered.

 

[Baltar]

Disney will definitely rather pay 10-20 million than the negativity of a trial putting them against this family during this tragedy. A jury definitely gives big rewards under similar circumstances. But on the other hand, if I was a family, I wouldn't want to relive this as well.

 

[flynnibus]

Well I might agree if Disney set up the movie night so that visitor needed to be on the beach near the edge of the water to see the movie.... but I don't think that was how it was done.... I'm not familiar with every location they do the movies at but ones that I have seen were not positioned so that you needed to be where these people were they were closer to the resort than they were to the water.... but again I don't know where all of them happen so it is possible.

Some of them are more up on the lawns near the property... some are right along the water.
Poly...

 

[englanddg]

Night vision detail doesn't really work well at long distances.. you lose a lot of resolution/detail with low-light stuff. Your common IR illuminated stuff isn't going to work well over large outdoor areas.

Yeap.

You'd need an IR flashlight to cast a strong beam on the targets. Not really something that surveillance cams do very well, and if you are in a mixed lighting environment, it can throw off other things...

 

[LAKid53]

I should clarify. I'm not speaking to their civil or criminal liability, merely their ethical one.

The Federal and State bureaucracy, and their monopoly on the treatment of these animals, whilst a good idea in concept, in practice, makes it difficult to deal with these sorts of situations proactively. And THAT is what I meant by their joint liability.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ests-about-alligators/?utm_term=.bf7a71a29fbe

And I'm sure at the next meeting of the FWC Commission, there will be a discussion of this very issue.

 

[Baltar]

Simple changes would be closing the beaches at night and give more specific signage and warnings in check in documents.. Movies are at the pool areas at many resorts so that is a simple change as well.

 

[flynnibus]

I was referring more to the tenor of the conversation here than what the family or the company may choose to do.

When topics are emotional - it helps to actually remove that from it if you want to have an actual discussion about the facts and realities.

Rational and emotional are often like oil and water

 

[WDWBryan]

Granted you would've had to find the toddler within minutes for him to not have drown but sad that he was only yards away from the beach and they searched all night and day and couldn't find him