JimboJones123
Well-Known Member
If the tourism industry drops, that will free up slots for locals and other walkups to get in
I'm not touching that one....
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Free Dining Plans = No avaliability
- Thread starter PhotoDave219
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I'm not touching that one....
Tiggerfanatic
Well-Known Member
I have a reservation for 2 for 745PM @ the Rose & Crown for Nov. 22nd. I am assuming the tables seat 4. If I were willing to share my table with someone who was a walk-up, would that be allowed? Do I just mention it to the host/hostess? Or if someone on the boards wanted to join us, could I just call advanced dining and change my number from 2 to 4? We have been talking about it and thought it might be a fun way to meet some fellow Disney enthusiasts.
Hakunamatata
Le Meh
Not sure, but I know quite a few of the resteraunts have two people tables.
AliciaLuvzDizne
Well-Known Member
that sounds kinda fun!
i've never seen it done before but if the parties both wish to dine together who am i to tell them no :lol:
unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
If a $5 tip is all a server gets, then why does it state that a 18% gratuity is included with the plan?
18% of $27.00 = $4.86
I guess they just round it off to five dollars.
Senderella
Member
I don't know about being able to have a walk up join you, but I do know you need to call if you're going to adjust the dining party number. Keep in mind though, you may or may not be able to get it for the same time. We were originally going to be 4 people going, but one had to drop so I had to call and change the ADRs to 3 people. I managed to get within about 30 minutes of our original dining time, but I DID do it a few months BEFORE our trip. So no telling how that'd end up on a short notice situation.
As far as the whole DDP thing, personally we LOVE the DDP because it frees us from having to budget daily for meals and we're able to hit more restaurants we wouldn't normally hit in one trip. It's a great idea. I do agree though that if it's causing a problem in quality (food, service, etc) then it should be revamped as well as the ADR system. The point the locals are making is really valid. Restaurants in my area are the same way. When I was a server I had a manager once say "Everyone else (meaning nationals and snowbirds) is our bread and butter.. I'm not worried about locals".
Yellow Shoes
Well-Known Member
The tip issue is very interesting, and I'm surprised that I am just hearing this for the first time.
I just assumed that the server got 18% of the total bill; NOT 18% of $27.
So my Le Cellier dinner for 3, which will easily be $120, and should get the server a $25 tip (if I were paying cash for the meal and tip), will get him/her $15.
$10 less for every table times (what??) 20 tables per shift is a significant pay cut.
No wonder morale is low!!
I just assumed that the server got 18% of the total bill; NOT 18% of $27.
So my Le Cellier dinner for 3, which will easily be $120, and should get the server a $25 tip (if I were paying cash for the meal and tip), will get him/her $15.
$10 less for every table times (what??) 20 tables per shift is a significant pay cut.
No wonder morale is low!!
MouseearsDeb
New Member
This is what I assumed as well. I have to admit that it seems a little underhanded for WDW to say includes 18% tip and not inform the consumer that it's not 18% of the total retail bill.
Can any CM's confirm this? I may have overlooked this answer in a previous post but I would like to hear from a few who will honestly say which way it is.
BRER STITCH
Well-Known Member
This whole post is both interesting and funny! :lol: :lookaroun
Some of us have been predicting that this exact scenario would play out as a result of the Dining Plan eventually. It just took a little longer for people to figure out what was going on, I guess.
Like PHOTODAVE and CORRUS, I can no longer take guests to Disney restaurants when I am in town on business - something I almost exclusively did, and paid full price for!
The inability to get a reservation for local and business diners because Disney would rather give food away, instead of having my company pay very generously for food and drink all night makes no sense. It's such a short term fix to DIsney's overall problem. The real damage will be seen when the dining plan eventually ends and all the local and travelling business diners have found other places to dine, while the free diners stay home waiting for the next giveaway.
The other side of the coin is that we are all much more than regular guests to WDW for leisure, too, and this whole thing has soured us on Disney Dining, as we do not use a dining plan to tell us when we are hungry or what we want to eat. Looks like the city and Universal restaurants will be getting a lot more of my company's (and my family's!) money.
Too bad....Disney Dining was always one of the most anticipated parts of our vacations....
Some of us have been predicting that this exact scenario would play out as a result of the Dining Plan eventually. It just took a little longer for people to figure out what was going on, I guess.
Like PHOTODAVE and CORRUS, I can no longer take guests to Disney restaurants when I am in town on business - something I almost exclusively did, and paid full price for!
The inability to get a reservation for local and business diners because Disney would rather give food away, instead of having my company pay very generously for food and drink all night makes no sense. It's such a short term fix to DIsney's overall problem. The real damage will be seen when the dining plan eventually ends and all the local and travelling business diners have found other places to dine, while the free diners stay home waiting for the next giveaway.
The other side of the coin is that we are all much more than regular guests to WDW for leisure, too, and this whole thing has soured us on Disney Dining, as we do not use a dining plan to tell us when we are hungry or what we want to eat. Looks like the city and Universal restaurants will be getting a lot more of my company's (and my family's!) money.
Too bad....Disney Dining was always one of the most anticipated parts of our vacations....
Tiggerfanatic
Well-Known Member
Guess we'll wait until we get there. If we get seated at a table for 4, we'll mention to the hostess that we're willing to share and see what happens *shrug*.....
I'd like to know too! The larger crowds, pressure to turn tables, complaints about waits, lack of availability ... factor in this tipping thing, and I must agree with Yellow Shoes about this contributing to a decline in service and morale being low.
I am curious about the demand for the DDP, and just how often it's a free add-on to a vacation package. I'd guess only the slowest times of the year (after Spring Break/before summer; and September) but perhaps more.
Brer, I'm with you on wondering why TPTB seem inclined to give away meals (which are already discounted in the DDP), when most of us happily pay for them. I suppose it's an incentive to get guests to WDW and to get them to stay on property, paying top dollar for everything else.
Just wish there was a way to complain, make suggestions (like limit DDP sales/number of ADRs). My fear is that, with the apparent success of the plan, TPTB won't see a need to make any changes and we're all left thinking, "It's August. I have a craving for Le Cellier. Better call and make my ADR. For. Next. Year."
My sources are a couple of CMs for the reimbursement and the gratuity.
As for teh bit about there being no ADRs? I'll expand some: Most of my issue is being able to get short notice tables. Ive had someone just books some for 2 weeks out and had no problem. I'm talking like day before, morning of type issues. My job is that irratic that i dont know the schedule until the day before, so i do try to plan. That being said, if you want to eat at Japan, Morocco or Germany and china, you wont have a problem getting in. If you want to eat at Le Cellier, Mexico, Italy, Whispering Canyon Cafe, Anywhere in the MK, Chef Mickey's, Concourse Steakhouse, Yachtman's Steakhouse.... and so on, you're realy out of luck.
However in Disney's defense i will admit that I have been able to get into 50's prime time as a walk in. Its just that their menu has gone down hill so far and my waitress was pretty horrid from the entertainment point of view, which is whey i go there in the first place.
The biggest issue that i have is that the parks have seriously low attendance lately and you cant get in to most resturants. Unless you want the 9:40 table at Spoodles....
The last two places ive eaten were Wolfgang Puck's Cafe and Portebello Yacht Club. No problem getting into those.....
mousermerf
Account Suspended
A few notes...
If you work at a location - you can override the tabletop setup. However, other location cannot, therefor (I should have clarified) the CMs at reservations who are overbooking you should be tracked and reprimanded. The tabletop grid should be adhered to except in extreme circumstance.
Again, if 10 parties show up at 5pm, that is determined by your manager as the manager of a restaraunt determines the tabletop grid. That person DOES need to take responsibility, learn the system, and fix it.
About a party of 2 - there really are tables for 2, don't assume you're booked at a table for 4. I know Alicia says her location will accept extras, but there are locations who will force you to reschedule if you come with too many people - while people not showing or being fewer is a godsend to them.
As for what a reservation is.. It's not a selected table at all. It's a rough estimate based on some fuzzy guidelines of when a table might become available based on some math and the total number of tables and serves and general turnover. Hence, sometimes you can walkup, and other times - typically - they're packed and people are waiting. Some managers really screw the system up and overwork their grid to get maximum profit, while some try to take a more level headed approach.
For example, there are some restaurants that only seat maybe 5-6 total parties of 2 the entire night. That's just ridiculous, but the restaurant was designed with 4tops (physically) or larger, so the manager sets aside only those 6 bookings for the smaller parties, and wants the profits from the largers parties to take the tables.
That's why i say fudge it. Say you're a party of 3 if you can't get in for a table of 2. Bring your Pal Mickey, he counts as a third. More often then not, it magically makes a table appear by opening the entire 3-4top table category when the 1-2top is gone. (Same goes for 5 when you cant get 4, it pushes you into the 6top table category)
That's my explination, beleive me if you want to.
If you work at a location - you can override the tabletop setup. However, other location cannot, therefor (I should have clarified) the CMs at reservations who are overbooking you should be tracked and reprimanded. The tabletop grid should be adhered to except in extreme circumstance.
Again, if 10 parties show up at 5pm, that is determined by your manager as the manager of a restaraunt determines the tabletop grid. That person DOES need to take responsibility, learn the system, and fix it.
About a party of 2 - there really are tables for 2, don't assume you're booked at a table for 4. I know Alicia says her location will accept extras, but there are locations who will force you to reschedule if you come with too many people - while people not showing or being fewer is a godsend to them.
As for what a reservation is.. It's not a selected table at all. It's a rough estimate based on some fuzzy guidelines of when a table might become available based on some math and the total number of tables and serves and general turnover. Hence, sometimes you can walkup, and other times - typically - they're packed and people are waiting. Some managers really screw the system up and overwork their grid to get maximum profit, while some try to take a more level headed approach.
For example, there are some restaurants that only seat maybe 5-6 total parties of 2 the entire night. That's just ridiculous, but the restaurant was designed with 4tops (physically) or larger, so the manager sets aside only those 6 bookings for the smaller parties, and wants the profits from the largers parties to take the tables.
That's why i say fudge it. Say you're a party of 3 if you can't get in for a table of 2. Bring your Pal Mickey, he counts as a third. More often then not, it magically makes a table appear by opening the entire 3-4top table category when the 1-2top is gone. (Same goes for 5 when you cant get 4, it pushes you into the 6top table category)
That's my explination, beleive me if you want to.
The DDP is a loss leader. For those that don't know a loss leader is a product or service that is sold at less than cost or simply given away in order to get other business. Virtually every company has items that qualify as a loss leader. For example Home Depot sells their 2x4 studs and 7/16" OSB just barely above their product cost. They do this so you buy their nails, hardware molding etc at 100% or more markup. The free and paid for DDP is no different.
There are 2 inherent problems with loss loss leaders. The first problem is when you work in one of these industries that provides this product you are treated like the proverbial red headed step-child. The company does not want to pay you a decent wage or invest in newer and or better equipment because in their eyes you don't directly make the company money. This results in low morale and poor worker performance.
The second problem is a symptom of the first, bad service. An unhappy employee is a bad employee. This does not make much of a difference when you are buying 2x4's but in a service related industry, such as a restaurant, it will effect customer experience in a very negative way pretty much every time.
At one time food was a huge cash cow for Disney. Servers made a ton in tips the chefs were paid fairly at the volume of customers was at a manageable level and service was second to none because the staff was happy. Now due to this switch in focus the guests experience is suffering and will continue to suffer as long as this program continues in its current form. If it does continue the bad service and lack of available seating will make DDP free or otherwise worthless, and dinning will be back to the bad burgers at pizza of the 1970's.
IMHO Disney would be better served in the long run by discounting rooms and gate prices in order to get more people in the gate. Provide free park admission with a Disney resort stay and prepaid dinning at a profitable price and watch how many people line up.
There are 2 inherent problems with loss loss leaders. The first problem is when you work in one of these industries that provides this product you are treated like the proverbial red headed step-child. The company does not want to pay you a decent wage or invest in newer and or better equipment because in their eyes you don't directly make the company money. This results in low morale and poor worker performance.
The second problem is a symptom of the first, bad service. An unhappy employee is a bad employee. This does not make much of a difference when you are buying 2x4's but in a service related industry, such as a restaurant, it will effect customer experience in a very negative way pretty much every time.
At one time food was a huge cash cow for Disney. Servers made a ton in tips the chefs were paid fairly at the volume of customers was at a manageable level and service was second to none because the staff was happy. Now due to this switch in focus the guests experience is suffering and will continue to suffer as long as this program continues in its current form. If it does continue the bad service and lack of available seating will make DDP free or otherwise worthless, and dinning will be back to the bad burgers at pizza of the 1970's.
IMHO Disney would be better served in the long run by discounting rooms and gate prices in order to get more people in the gate. Provide free park admission with a Disney resort stay and prepaid dinning at a profitable price and watch how many people line up.
wannab@dis
Well-Known Member
I think you're missing a simple point... only a few (mostly locals) are complaining! We absolutely loved the DDP last December and I've seen many glowing reports about it since then. You're points are perfectly valid, but don't really have an impact if the majority of diners are happy. It's also apparent that the complaints are specific to the FREE dining plan. While some want to vilify the Dining plan, it's just not the case that the Dining plan is fully the cause. They've had the dining plan available for a while along with times of FREE dining plan and the complaints weren't there. Maybe the problem is with the new ADR being used instead of the old PS plans. :veryconfu
Let's keep something else in mind here... the Dining Plan has been around for ages, just with different names. Packages for years have included dining plans that allow you to have certain meals "free" during your stay. The big difference now is that it's been made available to everyone and not just those with the "Platinum" packages.
I get the point, if I was a normal once a year non AP having guest I would jump on the dinning plan in a second. There is talk of making it available to AP holders and if and when it happens I will get the dinning plan for every trip. My worries are more long term and big picture.
If because of this dinning plan promotion the quality and quantity of cast members could drop to a level that will seriously degrade the service quality at the restaurants.
There is a way to fix the problem. First tip the servers correctly or back off the price a little and state "Tips not included". Second revise the reservation system to avoid overbooking and leave a bit of wiggle room for last second reservations and walk ups.
wannab@dis
Well-Known Member
I'm not so sure the information regarding the tips is correct. In fact, I doubt it's true. If it is... there will be a lot of ticked off guests writing to complain. (I'll be one of them.)
As for walk-up availability, I can see it both ways. If they can book with advanced seatings, then why take the chance of having empty tables because you don't have many walk ups? It's a game that has only one winning outcome... full tables.
PSU_Princess
Member
I would also like to see some availability of shorter term ADRs. When we plan our trip we never plan out which park we are going to go to on which days. We just do what we want, when we want. This is one of the reasons that dining plan is not good for us...you have to be to structured to far in advance.
Knowing the OP like I do I would trust the tipping numbers. I can pretty much guarantee he is not embellishing them and I doubt he would post them if for 1 second he thought they were not correct. The numbers do add up and it is just they type of accounting trickery that a large corporation wold pull to to help the bottom line especially on a loss leader promotion like this.
For the seating it is a tricky situation. Like you said you don't want empty seats but you also don't want to over book. Maybe after a few letters and some number crunching they can find a balance for how many dining plan, non dining plan and day of ARD's to allow for, thereby preserving the high level of quality and service we have come to expect from Disney dinning while still remaining profitable.
Senderella
Member
So did anyone confirm about the tipping on the DDP? They only get a $5 tip regardless of the total bill??? How is that possible? :veryconfu