News FPs cancelled when Hotel room cancelled

[iowamomof4]

Is there any confirmation that Family #2 is actually a common family? I'd imagine that 99.99% of guests will stay at the same hotel the same time if both are on property. They'd have to figure out what to do what they're belongings for that 4-5 hour period between check-ins and check-outs.

Plus, its probably easier for Disney to park guests in one place for a long time, then to have to worry about getting several rooms ready, and worry about a lot of other logistics.

I think that thinking of a way to close a loophole that creates a lot of other loopholes is dumb when its really not something that makes much logistical sense.

On my first trip to Disney we ended up staying at three different resorts. We actually had our own vehicle, so moving wasn't a problem at all. Disney bell services will also move bags from resort to resort for split-stays. It's probably more common than you might think, but you're right that by far MOST guests stay at one place for their whole trip. I have no idea what the percentages are though.

 

[mmascari]

...Their reservations are treated as two separate reservations...

Is that the only way to book a split stay? Is there not any way to book a single reservation number that includes multiple resorts for different days? (Assuming they're all consecutive.)

I've never done it, but definitely read enough posts of people doing it and I personally know people who do it too. The ones I know have Disney move their luggage from one resort to the next. If they have an early flight out, they tend to stay the last night in the All Stars to save money for what is only a few hours in the room.

 

[iowamomof4]

Is that the only way to book a split stay? Is there not any way to book a single reservation number that includes multiple resorts for different days? (Assuming they're all consecutive.)

I've never done it, but definitely read enough posts of people doing it and I personally know people who do it too. The ones I know have Disney move their luggage from one resort to the next. If they have an early flight out, they tend to stay the last night in the All Stars to save money for what is only a few hours in the room.

Always separate reservation numbers.

 

[mmascari]

Always separate reservation numbers.

That's a real bummer. If they could change that, so that a reservation number supported a split stay directly, that would solve a bunch of things.

 

[Trackmaster]

On my first trip to Disney we ended up staying at three different resorts. We actually had our own vehicle, so moving wasn't a problem at all. Disney bell services will also move bags from resort to resort for split-stays. It's probably more common than you might think, but you're right that by far MOST guests stay at one place for their whole trip. I have no idea what the percentages are though.

That's cool. Is the bell service free? It would actually be a good way of taking advantage of the fact that some hotels are great for some parks, but inconvenient for other parks. Like you might want to stay at an AK lodge when you're focusing on AK, and be in the Contemporary or something on the monorail when you're focusing more on MK or EPCOT, and then stay at one of the hotels on the chairlift when you go to HK. It could work, but I don't see it being appealing for many people.

I think that for most people, unless you're on a road trip or doing some long distance touring, there's a certain luxury to coming back to the same room the whole time. It takes a while to get used to sleeping in a certain bed, not having to pack/unpack more than you have to, etc. WDW may be big, but its not so big that it necessarily warrants multiple hotel rooms. Its like like one side is in a different state from another one.

 

[kong1802]

Disney makes more money from guests that are actually staying on site, versus ones that are pretending to. Guests really staying at the campground will eat at the restaurants, shop at the trading posts, and do some upcharge activities like horseback riding. Guests that book a phantom reservation, even if they don't cancel, are a revenue dead end.

Is that cynical? Yes, but I don't blame Disney. Also, I'm one of the people that actually use the cheap campsites.

Cheap?

They used to be, but when looking for some dates they only have some preferred campsites left at like $160!

I'm hoping this change brings those campsites back down to the $60 they were not that long ago.....

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don't think you're being sarcastic, so I'll explain it. If I missed the sarcasm, I apologize.

Family #1 books a stay for 8 nights on property. Their fastpass window opens 60 days ahead of their arrival day and they can book all 8 days of fastpasses, thus giving them the opportunity to book the harder rides like SDD and FOP without much difficulty, especially later in their stay.

Family #2 also books 8 nights, but they split their stay. They start at Pop Century for 4 nights and then splurge on AKL for the remaining 4 nights. Their reservations are treated as two separate reservations and they have to book fastpasses for each portion of their stay in 2 different 60-day windows, thus putting them at a disadvantage over family #1 even though they are both staying 8 nights on property.

That is one of the main things that has now been confirmed to have changed.

Ok...thank you

And yes - I was serious. Or “sarcastically unsarcastic”....which is all I can muster.

So I’ll admit that sucks for those affected...but let me offer a different take thinking like the “operation”

Today’s Disney is all daily and quarterly Stock returns...and based on that, guaranteed revenue are all that matter
So in a way...the contiguous reservation, even if it costs less, is more value able to them.

I’ll chart it:
PARTY 1
Pop century (x equals one nights booked lodging)

Room 101: X X X X X X X

PARTY 2
pop century
Room 101: X X X X_ _ _
Dakl
Room 201: _ _ _ _ X X X


Now party 2 is spending more on the hotel...but which one has a higher operational value?

Easy...party 1. Because they have those extra nights Locked out from 2 rooms that they MAY NOT be able to sell.

So from that perspective, the fastpass prebook incentive could be viewed as a reason they have to in a way penalize you for making their life tougher.

I’m not saying that’s a fact - it’s a theory. But I do have some knowledge of how the big brother thinks.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

Cheap?

They used to be, but when looking for some dates they only have some preferred campsites left at like $160!

I'm hoping this change brings those campsites back down to the $60 they were not that long ago.....

You can't say the C-word concerning Disney without grading on a curve. And I'm a tent camper, so I am the biggest cheapskate on property!

 

[kong1802]

You can't say the C-word concerning Disney without grading on a curve. And I'm a tent camper, so I am the biggest cheapskate on property!

About 4 years ago, we used to snag a campsite for a weekend, usually a month or so out, about 5 times per year. Thought it was the best deal out there! Most we paid I believe was about $80.

Fast forward to now, and we started looking to do the same, and can't find availability, and if we do, it's around $100 or so....

If closing these loop holes help the availability and price, I'd be a happy camper!

But knowing WDW like I do....availability might come back, but price wont.

 

[iowamomof4]

Ok...thank you

And yes - I was serious. Or “sarcastically unsarcastic”....which is all I can muster.

So I’ll admit that sucks for those affected...but let me offer a different take thinking like the “operation”

Today’s Disney is all daily and quarterly Stock returns...and based on that, guaranteed revenue are all that matter
So in a way...the contiguous reservation, even if it costs less, is more value able to them.

I’ll chart it:
PARTY 1
Pop century (x equals one nights booked lodging)

Room 101: X X X X X X X

PARTY 2
pop century
Room 101: X X X X_ _ _
Dakl
Room 201: _ _ _ _ X X X


Now party 2 is spending more on the hotel...but which one has a higher operational value?

Easy...party 1. Because they have those extra nights Locked out from 2 rooms that they MAY NOT be able to sell.

So from that perspective, the fastpass prebook incentive could be viewed as a reason they have to in a way penalize you for making their life tougher.

I’m not saying that’s a fact - it’s a theory. But I do have some knowledge of how the big brother thinks.

Oh I'm in complete agreement that it is more advantageous to Disney to have guests pick a resort and stay there the whole time. Housekeeping costs are lower for just giving a quick cleaning during a stay vs. a deeper clean (hopefully) to turn the room over, for example. People have said, "But what about the fact that many split stay people are spending more money at an expensive resort they otherwise couldn't afford to stay at?" Which is where your example comes in. Yes, they lose those extra dollars from family #2, but family #3 could happily take that room for their stay instead.

 

[markc]

Completely Incorrect. Party 2 is the right answer in Disney's eyes. Why? Because Pop Century will almost always sell out. DAKL, on the other hand, (along with the deluxes) will "struggle" (relatively speaking) with occupancy over a value.

It's for this reason that cast members travelling to Orlando on business are almost always booked at deluxe resorts. The company would rather their own people take up space at a resort that's less likely to sell rather than a value. Less space at a value also means more of a chance that a guest who would've stayed at a property onsite is going to be off-site. A deluxe guest, is more likely to just downgrade to a moderate than they would to look to stay off site if the properties they desire are unavailable.

Now party 2 is spending more on the hotel...but which one has a higher operational value?

Easy...party 1. Because they have those extra nights Locked out from 2 rooms that they MAY NOT be able to sell.

So from that perspective, the fastpass prebook incentive could be viewed as a reason they have to in a way penalize you for making their life tougher.

I’m not saying that’s a fact - it’s a theory. But I do have some knowledge of how the big brother thinks.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Completely Incorrect. Party 2 is the right answer in Disney's eyes. Why? Because Pop Century will almost always sell out. DAKL, on the other hand, (along with the deluxes) will "struggle" (relatively speaking) with occupancy over a value.

It's for this reason that cast members travelling to Orlando on business are almost always booked at deluxe resorts. The company would rather their own people take up space at a resort that's less likely to sell rather than a value. Less space at a value also means more of a chance that a guest who would've stayed at a property onsite is going to be off-site. A deluxe guest, is more likely to just downgrade to a moderate than they would to look to stay off site if the properties they desire are unavailable.

You’re harping on that specific example...what if it’s two hotels more closely aligned - or even the same price - In period that isn’t full occupancy?

In that scenario is disadvantageous to “the company”

As my iowanian friend also pointed out - there are other cost savings/advantages.

It was just a different perspective of looking at it...nonneed to microanalyze it. Hypothetical.

Also “cast members” and “the company” give you away as a name tag...and while I love experienced opinions, sometimes the osmosis of proximity/influence trends to distort reality. I get what you’re saying...very valid take on that angle. But can’t be applied across the board so emphatically

 

[iowamomof4]

You’re harping on that specific example...what if it’s two hotels more closely aligned - or even the same price - In period that isn’t full occupancy?

In that scenario is disadvantageous to “the company”

As my iowanian friend also pointed out - there are other cost savings/advantages.

It was just a different perspective of looking at it...nonneed to microanalyze it. Hypothetical.

Also “cast members” and “the company” give you away as a name tag...and while I love experienced opinions, sometimes the osmosis of proximity/influence trends to distort reality. I get what you’re saying...very valid take on that angle. But can’t be applied across the board so emphatically

Indeed. Our first trip was AoA>CBR>BC Club Level (gasp!); Second trip was Pop>AoA; Third trip coming up will be AoA>Pop.

 

[JohnD]

Earlier I surmised that this change might make it easier to get hard-to-get FPs. Well, today is my 60 day mark to get FPs for my resort stay. Only anecdotal, but it seemed like hard-to-get FPs such as FOP (which I got for a 1pm time slot) and SDD (for around 5pm) were easier to get. I had a trip last December and at 60 days out for that trip I could only get FOP for around 7pm and couldn't get SDD at all.

My easier selections could have been influenced by other factors though: One could be time of year: This trip is for late April as opposed to mid-December. Another factor could be FP+ strategy. This time, I focused on grabbing my Tier 1 or hard-to-get MK FPs first before completing a full day.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Earlier I surmised that this change might make it easier to get hard-to-get FPs. Well, today is my 60 day mark to get FPs for my resort stay. Only anecdotal, but it seemed like hard-to-get FPs such as FOP (which I got for a 1pm time slot) and SDD (for around 5pm) were easier to get. I had a trip last December and at 60 days out for that trip I could only get FOP for around 7pm and couldn't get SDD at all.

My easier selections could have been influenced by other factors though: One could be time of year: This trip is for late April as opposed to mid-December. Another factor could be FP+ strategy. This time, I focused on grabbing my Tier 1 or hard-to-get MK FPs first before completing a full day.

God I hope so...it never made sense to make people pay entry to a place and have a reservation system that made it impossible to get reservations...

“Vacations” shouldn’t require that much work/effort

 

[iowamomof4]

Earlier I surmised that this change might make it easier to get hard-to-get FPs. Well, today is my 60 day mark to get FPs for my resort stay. Only anecdotal, but it seemed like hard-to-get FPs such as FOP (which I got for a 1pm time slot) and SDD (for around 5pm) were easier to get. I had a trip last December and at 60 days out for that trip I could only get FOP for around 7pm and couldn't get SDD at all.

My easier selections could have been influenced by other factors though: One could be time of year: This trip is for late April as opposed to mid-December. Another factor could be FP+ strategy. This time, I focused on grabbing my Tier 1 or hard-to-get MK FPs first before completing a full day.

On which day of your trip were you able to secure these fastpasses?

 

[Trackmaster]

God I hope so...it never made sense to make people pay entry to a place and have a reservation system that made it impossible to get reservations...

“Vacations” shouldn’t require that much work/effort

I would maybe stop calling them "vacations." This is more about traveling, going to parks, and actually doing things. A vacation is going to a beach for a week, drinking Margaritas all day, and passing out by the evening. Traveling is where you actually are expecting to be productive and stay busy all week.

Yes, if you expect WDW to be a cruise or a beach resort, you might find it overwhelming and taxing. If you think of it like a road trip or taking a tour through Europe, you might be OK with actually putting some work into planning it.

I think you'll find that if you show up to Europe without a plan, you'll be overwhelmed and end up not actually doing anything.

 

[disneyflush]

WDW is an exhausting interactive experience.

 

[JohnD]

On which day of your trip were you able to secure these fastpasses?

I'm exactly 60 days out today. My trip is 4/29 - 5/5.

 

[JohnD]

I would maybe stop calling them "vacations." This is more about traveling, going to parks, and actually doing things. A vacation is going to a beach for a week, drinking Margaritas all day, and passing out by the evening. Traveling is where you actually are expecting to be productive and stay busy all week.

Yes, if you expect WDW to be a cruise or a beach resort, you might find it overwhelming and taxing. If you think of it like a road trip or taking a tour through Europe, you might be OK with actually putting some work into planning it.

I think you'll find that if you show up to Europe without a plan, you'll be overwhelmed and end up not actually doing anything.

It's a vacation if you want it to be a vacation. A priest at my church made a point once about how a parishioner said, "Well, I didn't get anything out of that." Which caused him to wonder, "Well, how much did you put into it, bubba?" It's enjoyable if you want it to be enjoyable.