FP+ only Toy Story Midway Mania

[scout68]

Denying paying customers to experience what they paid to experience, making them test subjects without an heads up, is asinine.

It's one thing when an attraction is down for unforeseen reasons but this was planned.

Anyone who arrived to the park today after a certain point that did not pre book can *not* ride.

Every one of the magic branded has been made a test subject without a heads up already. It's just a cute colorful band of a test.

 

[StarWarsGirl]

Okay, I've only read about 4 pages of this thread, but if I were a guest there this week, I would be angry. My big issue is that they gave such short notice about this test (if any notice; this is the only place I've heard about it). My other big issue is that now they are essentially denying people the opportunity to ride this attractio.

As others have said, guests should be able to decide whether or not they want to wait in line to ride it. Those who would like an expedited wait time grab FPs. Those unable to get a FP may choose to wait in line or they may choose not to ride. The point is that it's up to them. I also disagree with the arguments that say, "Oh, the capacity of riders per day is the same regardless of the wait times." Well, that's not necessarily true. The park closing time is just when they happen to close the lines. The attraction will keep operating until everyone who was in line has had a chance to ride. Therefore, if the line there were 100 people in line at park closing, they would all go through. So the capacity may not remain the same per day. I also agree with what others have said about what happens if people don't show up for their FP time. Then what happens? They don't load it to capacity and far fewer people get to ride. I also wonder how they handled this when the park opened in the morning. If no one was on it and people came up expecting to get in standby, did they turn them away? I can imagine that conversation:

CM: Oh, sorry, you need a FP in order to ride this.
Guest: Wait, I'm confused, there's no standby line?
CM: That is correct. You can go to a FP kiosk and make a selection
Guest: Okay. So I'll get to ride it, what, in three hours?
CM: Correct.
Guest: Even though I can see there's no one in the FP line right now?
CM: Correct
Guest: Well that's disappointing. I think next time we'll choose to spend time at other parks rather than come here since we can't even get on the ride.

After reading through this thread, I still don't understand the purpose of this test. While I agree that building two sides of the track would be beneficial (even though the park also needs more family friendly rides, but I digress) I fail to see why they can't test one side being FP only after they build the second side instead of right now. The lack of logic in this whole thing just baffles me.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Another WDW News site is reporting Today that Disney is "making more than the usual allotment of FastPass+ reservations available" for this test. So my interpretation is that everyone who wants a TSMM FP+ each day will get one. (Thus there will be no angry mobs with pitchforks outside Guest Services) So does that mean FP+ is really a reservation to come back later and stand in a 1-2 hour FP+ line instead of a 4 hour standby line?

That's assuming the masses know how to get a FP+ though. We all do but many haven't a clue

 

[TP2000]

Meanwhile, TSMM in Disney California Adventure continues to function with NO FastPass whatsoever. Of course having it located in a park with a multitude of other attractions certainly helps.

According to my wait time apps I use in both DLR and WDW, Midway Mania has the following waits right now at 3:00PM Pacific and 6:00PM Eastern:

Midway Mania DCA - 25 Minutes
Midway Mania DHS - 40 Minutes

I'm highly suspicious of that 40 minutes at DHS though if they've gone to FP+ only. Maybe there was a breakdown or something?

25 minutes is a typical wait time on a non-busy day for Midway Mania at DCA, which has never offered Fastpass. At the same time today in DCA, Radiator Springs Racers is posted at 60 minutes, Grizzly River Run is posted at 35 minutes (it's sunny and hot today!), and Soarin' Over California is posted at 20 minutes. Tower of Terror is 15 minutes, and everything else in DCA is 5 or 10 minutes. The Little Mermaid: Ariel's Undersea Adventure is a complete walk-on.

But then we're comparing two theme parks that have taken very different strategies for expansion in the 13 years DCA has been open and the 25 years DHS has been open. To the point where today you have two established theme parks that have this to offer paying customers on a slower October weekday:

DCA open 8:00 AM to 8:00PM - 31 Attractions, 21 of which are Rides, 1 Parade, 1 Water Spectacular
DHS open 9:00AM to 9:00PM - 14 Attractions, 5 of which are Rides, 1 Water Spectacular

And with that said, I am BAFFLED that TDO chose to do a "test" on making one of only 5 rides in this incredible shrinking theme park FP+ only. They couldn't try this out in Magic Kingdom instead, where there's more rides available to soften the blow? It's almost like this is a test to see how much they can get away with before their paying customers revolt.

 

[dupac]

So have they made enough FP+ slots available to fully represent capacity? Aka as many available as they can push through?

 

[Richard Gregory]

This week Toy Story Mania will only be available through fastpass, only distributing enough to fill capacity and not allowing guest to use the disability access card or allowing guest services to issue fastpasses.

Soooo I've just been on TSM;

1) yes as many have predicted on here there is a general riot of angry guests parked outside the attraction with atleast 4 managers trying to deal with the complaints

2) the ride is running at full capacity but with Fastpass+ guests only. Ride supervisors are counting the number of empty cars, as there was no queue to get on the ride. there were 5 empty carriages that went through whilst we were waiting to get on. Ride supervisors were reporting empty carriages to more managers who were stood in the unload area.

3) I was told that as part of the test each morning more fastpass+ tickets would be released every morning during the test.

I can only assume that they're spending the week trying to optimise the number of fastpass+ tickets they need to release to keep a constant flow of guests going through the ride with limited queuing but also no empty carriages. I'd expect them to increase the number available throughout the week until they get the optimum capacity.

 

[danv3]

I'll never understand this. If people want to wait in line, let them. If people want to ride a single ride over and over and over again, let them.

Whatever happened to "the customer is always right"? With Disney the theory seems to be "the customer is generally wrong unless they like what we tell them to like, when we tell them to like it."

 

[BigTxEars]

I wonder if Frozen will open with this or something similar to help control lines at WS?

 

[MrPromey]

It's obviously a real world test for future line queues. I know we all like to think TDO are a bunch of idiots because they make decisions we don't agree with but I don't think there is any way imaginable, this is anything other than a test for future line layouts. It has been pretty much confirmed that the 3rd track is coming. They aren't going to make the whole attraction FP+ only, permanently.

A lot of people seem angry that they are doing this instead of opening a new attraction. I'd say that in the current state of things, there isn''t a whole lot they could do with soundstage 1 that would have much of a capacity by itself. Heck, the current TSMM uses almost an entire soundstage just for a queue line and the two track ride is all flat panels that take up hardly any space.

Regardless of them testing for adding capacity anywhere else, this seems like a good move to me for this particular attraction in this particular location. It's a very simple ride with minimal required construction and no complex sets or animatronics that take ages to fabricate and test. This means that it's a cheap, and super quick (by Disney's standards) way to increase capacity in the park and for the attraction that has the worst wait times and constantly sold-out fastpasses. Between this and nothing in the next year or two, we all come out a winner if they do this since nothing of any real value will be added that could possibly open under 24 months the way Disney operates.

What did we want them to do with soundstage 1? Keep it for thrown together seasonal stuff or turn it into the next big gift shop? I don't think there is enough room in that building to do much more. Heck, even WWTBAM took up two sound stages between the attracting and staging/exit, didn't it?

 

[BigTxEars]

The fastpass kiosk in the morning is going to be like the good old days.

Keep the knees up and the elbows swinging as you run

I wonder is FP scalppers will show up soon in the park?

 

[JediMasterMatt]

According to my wait time apps I use in both DLR and WDW, Midway Mania has the following waits right now at 3:00PM Pacific and 6:00PM Eastern:

Midway Mania DCA - 25 Minutes
Midway Mania DHS - 40 Minutes

I'm highly suspicious of that 40 minutes at DHS though if they've gone to FP+ only. Maybe there was a breakdown or something?

25 minutes is a typical wait time on a non-busy day for Midway Mania at DCA, which has never offered Fastpass. At the same time today in DCA, Radiator Springs Racers is posted at 60 minutes, Grizzly River Run is posted at 35 minutes (it's sunny and hot today!), and Soarin' Over California is posted at 20 minutes. Tower of Terror is 15 minutes, and everything else in DCA is 5 or 10 minutes. The Little Mermaid: Ariel's Undersea Adventure is a complete walk-on.

But then we're comparing two theme parks that have taken very different strategies for expansion in the 13 years DCA has been open and the 25 years DHS has been open. To the point where today you have two established theme parks that have this to offer paying customers on a slower October weekday:

DCA open 8:00 AM to 8:00PM - 31 Attractions, 21 of which are Rides, 1 Parade, 1 Water Spectacular
DHS open 9:00AM to 9:00PM - 14 Attractions, 5 of which are Rides, 1 Water Spectacular

And with that said, I am BAFFLED that TDO chose to do a "test" on making one of only 5 rides in this incredible shrinking theme park FP+ only. They couldn't try this out in Magic Kingdom instead, where there's more rides available to soften the blow? It's almost like this is a test to see how much they can get away with before their paying customers revolt.

Ah, the crux of the matter. How dare you lay out cold hard facts in a discussion about emotion and feelings (symptom of huffing pixie dust)!

TDO's desire to steer crowds away from popular attractions to less popular attractions to make the wait for popular attractions less is foolish. Guests determine "popularity" based on what the choose to invest time in. Guests have deemed TSMM worthy of investing their time in in lieu of what else is available. They would rather wait for it than go check out another of the 4 rides or shows. Nothing else will change their desire to do so until other rides or attractions come online that guest deem worthy of investing in instead of queuing virtually or physically for TSMM.

TSMM at DHS has the deck stacked against it. It is one of 5 rides in the entire park (I said 4 earlier, I forgot about GMR - to be honest, I think TDO forgets about it too). Like you, I can't fathom why they would experiment in DHS which is already on life support.

Virtual queuing will work fine once SUPPLY exceeds demand in WDW's parks. Crowd steering will never work in the long run. Guests vote with their feet when they get inline or click the FP+ option on their screen. That won't change no matter how enticing a quick return time for a bad ride or attraction is.

There is one aspect of this test that nobody is talking about yet. As I've mentioned before, a FP reservation acts as an incentive to use it. One method of keeping people in DHS longer is taking away their ability to get in the standby line when they choose by giving them a FP+ time much later in the day. If you WANT to ride it, you NEED to stay longer.

 

[jaklgreen]

No, no slippery slope here. It's very clear. If you go into the park this week with a regular paid ticket, you can't ride Toy Story unless you get on the fast pass bandwagon. It's also a possible sign to come for all rides in all parks. Trust me when I say there is a lot more behind magic bands and fast pass + than what they told us.

Chances are you go there to get in line you will be able to get a FP for it since instead of standing in line you get a FP. Unless you wait until very late in the day you will more then likely be able to ride. I rather get a FP and come back later then stand in a 2 hour line.

 

[CDavid]

Another WDW News site is reporting Today that Disney is "making more than the usual allotment of FastPass+ reservations available" for this test. So my interpretation is that everyone who wants a TSMM FP+ each day will get one.

That's not really possible though. You can't give out more FP's than the total daily capacity of the attraction (plus a certain percentage to allow for no-shows), and once those are exhausted, without a standby option any further guests are not accommodated.

Soooo I've just been on TSM;

1) yes as many have predicted on here there is a general riot of angry guests parked outside the attraction with atleast 4 managers trying to deal with the complaints

2) the ride is running at full capacity but with Fastpass+ guests only. Ride supervisors are counting the number of empty cars, as there was no queue to get on the ride. there were 5 empty carriages that went through whilst we were waiting to get on. Ride supervisors were reporting empty carriages to more managers who were stood in the unload area.

3) I was told that as part of the test each morning more fastpass+ tickets would be released every morning during the test.

I can only assume that they're spending the week trying to optimise the number of fastpass+ tickets they need to release to keep a constant flow of guests going through the ride with limited queuing but also no empty carriages. I'd expect them to increase the number available throughout the week until they get the optimum capacity.

I feel for the CM's and managers having to deal with this debacle, since it is completely a problem of Disney's own making, but on the other hand they did bring this on themselves.

If they give out extra FP's to maintain a continuous flow of guests, and thus avoid empty ride vehicles that the standby queue would normally fill, they are introducing a new problem by creating a line when an above average number of FP+ guests all show up in the same few minutes period of the return time window (Guests don't return as if on a production line. They'll come in fits and starts; Sometimes just enough to fill every seat, but other times a couple hundred will all arrive minutes apart).

Do you happen to know what time all FP+ were distributed for the day, if they have been? If there is an angry bunch of guests, I'm assuming those are the people getting turned away (if you could still get an FP+ now, the return time would be fairly soon, given park closing)?

 

[TheRabbit]

Chances are you go there to get in line you will be able to get a FP for it since instead of standing in line you get a FP. Unless you wait until very late in the day you will more then likely be able to ride. I rather get a FP and come back later then stand in a 2 hour line.

But wouldn't you like to be able to make that choice on your own?

 

[jaklgreen]

I think I understand what you are trying to say but simply wanted to clarify that "for any reason whatsoever" is an overstatement. I'm sure you didn't mean it this way but Disney cannot violate anyone's civil rights.

Furthermore, I don't want to get into a DAS discussion here but it's possible that this trial run might violate the American With Disabilities Act (ADA) if it does not honor DAS. After all, Disney has stated that DAS complies with ADA, suggesting that not honoring DAS is a violation of ADA. Hopefully, someone consulted with Legal before OK'ing this trial run.

They are not violating anything. The disabled have the same access that any other person has, that is exactly what the ADA wants, for a disabled to not be punished for being disabled. To allow only DAS in standby and not anyone else would be putting those using DAS in a much better position then everyone else.

 

[jaklgreen]

Last week at Epcot I arrived at 3pm, decided to look into Maelstrom Fastpass availability, as the line was over an hour. The CM at the kiosk pretty much laughed when I asked if any were left for the day. 'No, they're long gone'.

But I decided to ride anyway, taking the standby line, which actually moved faster than the posted wait time.

Had the new Fastpass+ only system been in place, any guests in a situation like mine would have been shut out. Somewhere along the line, a guest who likes to make up their day as they go along, deciding when to get in a line based on current wait times, is going to stop going to the parks when planning becomes compulsory on everything, and this attempt to ensure guests spend more money in shops than time in line could even cause them to lose money.

Yeah but they only hand out a certain percentage of FP to balance out the stand by line. If they are just doing FP then all of those spots that are taken by stand by people now turn into FPs. So there are way more FP for the TSMM test then you would normally have. I don't understand why this is such a hard concept for people to grasp. If you go there to wait in line you will more then likely be able to get a FP for it.

 

[FutureWorld1982]

DCA open 8:00 AM to 8:00PM - 31 Attractions, 21 of which are Rides, 1 Parade, 1 Water Spectacular
DHS open 9:00AM to 9:00PM - 14 Attractions, 5 of which are Rides, 1 Water Spectacular

You seem to forget that the ride count for DCA (which I LOVE) is inflated with a massive amount of flat rides, though. If DHS added the same amount of flats, it could get close to that number. I don't think I would like the park to get that many flat rides (and, once again, I love the current-day DCA).

DCA: 31 Attractions (9 flat rides, a THIRD of the park's lineup)
DHS: 15 Attractions with the new Frozen show (0 flat rides)

Anyway, this FastPass+ test doesn't sound very good. Imagine the amount of Guests that are going to miss the chance of ridin one of the only five rides in the park. Quite sad, in my opinion.

 

[arko]

They are not violating anything. The disabled have the same access that any other person has, that is exactly what the ADA wants, for a disabled to not be punished for being disabled. To allow only DAS in standby and not anyone else would be putting those using DAS in a much better position then everyone else.

The argument can be made however that Disney failed to inform the public of a change in policy. People showing up this week expecting to use the DAS might not have made a FP+ reservation, because Disney told them they would not need to.In other words just because they are not violating anything still makes it a stupid idea especially in the light of the lawsuit

 

[arko]

Yeah but they only hand out a certain percentage of FP to balance out the stand by line. If they are just doing FP then all of those spots that are taken by stand by people now turn into FPs. So there are way more FP for the TSMM test then you would normally have. I don't understand why this is such a hard concept for people to grasp. If you go there to wait in line you will more then likely be able to get a FP for it.

You can't simply take the standby volume and make it all FP+ that would simply mean you have a FP line with a wait time , which goes against the whole point of FP+.. At that point you might as well make it all standby. No the goal of this "test" looks to be how much volume they can push through FP+ while minimizing wait time..

 

[jaklgreen]

The argument can be made however that Disney failed to inform the public of a change in policy. People showing up this week expecting to use the DAS might not have made a FP+ reservation, because Disney told them they would not need to.In other words just because they are not violating anything still makes it a stupid idea especially in the light of the lawsuit

Where does it say that there needs to be notice and that it has to be a certain time frame? This is 1 ride we are talking about. And if someone is disappointed that they did not get to ride a certain ride that trip, well that falls under the category of "too bad, that's life", not OMG I am going to sue Disney. Got to keep these things in perspective. That law suit is the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time, it should not be entertained. Don't they realize all the money that Disney has to spend on lawyers is now going to cost the rest of us when they raise prices to pay for them.