Former VP Details Original Star Wars Land Plans

[rowrbazzle]

The map that @wdwmagic posted was from after the 2015 D23. That was when they had already settled on Batuu/Galaxy's Edge (it wasn't called Batuu yet, but it was already planned and announced as a new planet and not an established one like Tatooine). That map was the exact same land we ended up getting, but just in a different location.

Sometime between summer of 2015 and before when construction began, they shifted the SW:GE location at DHS to where it ended up in the back corner replacing LMA and the Backlot Tour.

The whole "changing from Tatooine to a brand new planet" decision occurred well before 2015 and that map.

This is an interview with Iger from Dec 14 where he talks about planning for the land based on the new trilogy. He said they waited in order to get a better idea about where the new trilogy was going.

 

[bryanfze55]

This is where that one Henry Ford quote about the faster horse is relevant. You don't base an entire theme park off a popular IP.

Star Wars is popular. Harry Potter is popular. But they're not universally popular. By creating fully fledged IP parks, you create a high demand from medium-to-hardcore fans, sure, but you also risk alienating people who "aren't big fans of Star Wars", like, well, the rest of my family. Parks like Magic Kingdom are the most popular in the world because they're approachable. Anyone from any culture can enjoy MK. But Star Wars is such a heavily American property; do you really think the many Chinese and Brazilian tourists are really falling over in excitement to visit Galaxy's Edge or a Star Wars park? No.

I love the Wizarding World lands, but I think the longevity of the lands hasn't been questioned at all by many. Harry Potter is still an incredibly popular IP, don't get me wrong, but it's for all intents and purposes over. There is no Pottermania anymore; Rowling's fans are turning against her, and series like Fantastic Beasts pale to replicate the popularity of the original series. In 15 years, parents who weren't even alive during the premiere of Deathly Hallows Part 2 will be taking their kids to Universal and WDW. I don't doubt that the lands will still be cool, but they'll be dated by 2035.

The lame idea of Tatooine would face the same problem. The original Star Wars is about 40 years old and not getting any younger. It's very likely that most kids nowadays don't care about Luke, Han, and Leia. Batuu is a good (not great) approach because it's flexible. It's involved with the sequel trilogy right now, but it'll take a small amount of effort to change that if need be.

Alright spill the beans, which Bob are you? The one with or without hair?

 

[Marc Davis Fan]

A good ride will have the tourists storming the gates.
As Flight of Passage and RotRoh proved, "if you build it, they will come."

THIS.

The success of FoP and RotR - and more importantly the relative failure of pre-RotR SWGE (including MFSR) - shows that quality is the best business plan. Popular IPs alone will not cut it (and quality attractions without popular IPs will do just fine, as FoP unintentionally demonstrates).

Will Disney realize that the path for near-term and long-term success is giving WDI the budget and creative freedom to build great things?

 

[World_Showcase_Lover007]

I'm interested to see what from the sequels they add to the land.

Yes I’m interested as well, it’s just that we’re still waiting for those sequels 10 years later from James Cameron. Now he’s promising 3 sequels in 4 years or some similar craziness. Maybe they are working on storylines and plots, and therefore make the sequels interesting.

 

[World_Showcase_Lover007]

THIS.

The success of FoP and RotR - and more importantly the relative failure of pre-RotR SWGE (including MFSR) - shows that quality is the best business plan. Popular IPs alone will not cut it (and quality attractions without popular IPs will do just fine, as FoP unintentionally demonstrates).

Will Disney realize that the path for near-term and long-term success is giving WDI the budget and creative freedom to build great things?

I agree and think it goes beyond this. As in, when will Disney learn that people just want rides? Of course we want theming too but rides are the draw. It’s not enough to simply walk around looking at facades. Disney management still suffers from “Morocco pavilion syndrome”. They think all the shops, restaurants and experiences are what people want. No! For a billion dollars we want rides! More than two!... and for the record, wandering the back streets of Morocco is not fun. Going on a flying carpet ride over Morocco would be fun lol!

 

[marni1971]

The OP of this thread kinda did. Hence all the "curse you Kathleen Kennedy" type posts before cooler heads prevailed about what Cockrell's Tattooine would have been (i.e. a lame disappointment). To wit...

I was staying out of the political slant. Purely replying to the park design side of things.

 

[marni1971]

So, is this a surmising or an inside info thing?

Not surmising.

 

[Lilofan]

I agree and think it goes beyond this. As in, when will Disney learn that people just want rides? Of course we want theming too but rides are the draw. It’s not enough to simply walk around looking at facades. Disney management still suffers from “Morocco pavilion syndrome”. They think all the shops, restaurants and experiences are what people want. No! For a billion dollars we want rides! More than two!... and for the record, wandering the back streets of Morocco is not fun. Going on a flying carpet ride over Morocco would be fun lol!

There was a flying carpet simulation ride at Disney Quest at Disney Springs many years ago. Now the location is the never popular NBA experience.

 

[wedenterprises]

Yes I’m interested as well, it’s just that we’re still waiting for those sequels 10 years later from James Cameron. Now he’s promising 3 sequels in 4 years or some similar craziness. Maybe they are working on storylines and plots, and therefore make the sequels interesting.

Initially it sounded like one reason for the delay was to figure out underwater motion capture technology. But Avatar 2 was supposed to be released this year (back in 2017).

 

[Imagineer45]

A good ride will have the tourists storming the gates.
As Flight of Passage and RotRoh proved, "if you build it, they will come."

It is the reason Big Thunder is popular and The Seas is not. A good IP will bring an initial crowd, a good ride will bring them back.

Yes I’m interested as well, it’s just that we’re still waiting for those sequels 10 years later from James Cameron. Now he’s promising 3 sequels in 4 years or some similar craziness. Maybe they are working on storylines and plots, and therefore make the sequels interesting.

Who would have thought that Disney's Pandora land would be the best marketing the films could ask for and not the other way around...

There was a flying carpet simulation ride at Disney Quest at Disney Springs many years ago. Now the location is the never popular NBA experience.

However, the flying carpet ride in Adventureland remains popular, even if many Disney fans consider it a lesser Dumbo.

 

[pdude81]

However, the flying carpet ride in Adventureland remains popular, even if many Disney fans consider it a lesser Dumbo.

The spitting camel does add a bit to the fun for me.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

Alright spill the beans, which Bob are you? The one with or without hair?

I met Chapek once, so I have to be Iger.

 

[larryz]

The spitting camel does add a bit to the fun for me.

"The Spitting Camel" sounds like it should be the cocktail lounge at the Marrakesh Restaurant.

 

[pdude81]

"The Spitting Camel" sounds like it should be the cocktail lounge at the Marrakesh Restaurant.

Yes please

 

[Marc Davis Fan]

I agree and think it goes beyond this. As in, when will Disney learn that people just want rides? Of course we want theming too but rides are the draw. It’s not enough to simply walk around looking at facades. Disney management still suffers from “Morocco pavilion syndrome”. They think all the shops, restaurants and experiences are what people want. No! For a billion dollars we want rides! More than two!... and for the record, wandering the back streets of Morocco is not fun. Going on a flying carpet ride over Morocco would be fun lol!

It's true that people want (quality) rides, although I would say that rides and immersive themed environments should be considered equally important. If either one of these were missing, it wouldn't be a true Disney experience. Indeed, immersive environments are the most significant aspect of making Disney theme parks stand apart. This is why, for instance, Walt Disney Studios Paris is considered Disney's worst theme park; it has a fine collection of rides, but almost no immersion. (For the record, I think wandering the back streets of Morocco is awesome, but of course it would be even better if there were also an immersive, high-quality ride in the pavilion.)

 

[bryanfze55]

It's true that people want (quality) rides, although I would say that rides and immersive themed environments should be considered equally important. If either one of these were missing, it wouldn't be a true Disney experience. Indeed, immersive environments are the most significant aspect of making Disney theme parks stand apart. This is why, for instance, Walt Disney Studios Paris is considered Disney's worst theme park; it has a fine collection of rides, but almost no immersion. (For the record, I think wandering the back streets of Morocco is awesome, but of course it would be even better if there were also an immersive, high-quality ride in the pavilion.)

I don’t think we need “rides” necessarily, but “attractions” which are the real draw.

For example, The American Adventure is probably a top-5 experience for me at WDW even though I’m stationary the whole time.

I agree rides are great when they don’t ruin the theming and sight lines, but they too often do.

 

[Rich Brownn]

It is the reason Big Thunder is popular and The Seas is not. A good IP will bring an initial crowd, a good ride will bring them back.


Who would have thought that Disney's Pandora land would be the best marketing the films could ask for and not the other way around...


However, the flying carpet ride in Adventureland remains popular, even if many Disney fans consider it a lesser Dumbo.

The one at DisneyQuest was a VR experience linked with 4 other people.

 

[Marc Davis Fan]

I don’t think we need “rides” necessarily, but “attractions” which are the real draw.

For example, The American Adventure is probably a top-5 experience for me at WDW even though I’m stationary the whole time.

I agree rides are great when they don’t ruin the theming and sight lines, but they too often do.

Right, I don't mean amusement park / carnival rides (which I don't think belong in a Disney park at all), I mean immersive experience rides. Those do not ruin theming and sightlines unless they're done incorrectly (like GotG at Epcot). When done properly, they're an important part of the theming (like both rides in Pandora, both rides in SWGE, ToT, Splash Mountain, Big Thunder, Haunted Mansion, etc., etc., etc., practically every major ride in fact).

I agree that quality shows can be great attractions as well (in addition to ride attractions, not in lieu of them).

 

[bryanfze55]

Right, I don't mean amusement park / carnival rides (which I don't think belong in a Disney park at all), I mean immersive experience rides. Those do not ruin theming and sightlines unless they're done incorrectly (like GotG at Epcot). When done properly, they're an important part of the theming (like both rides in Pandora, both rides in SWGE, ToT, Splash Mountain, Big Thunder, Haunted Mansion, etc., etc., etc., practically every major ride in fact).

I agree that quality shows can be great attractions as well (in addition to ride attractions, not in lieu of them).

Mission: Breakout at DCA being the only notable exception I can think of.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

A good ride will have the tourists storming the gates.
As Flight of Passage and RotRoh proved, "if you build it, they will come."

You mean, like Mission: SPACE?

I recall when M:S was widely advertised and wildly popular, for a little while.

Forgive me, but I say it is still WAAY too early to say GE is a wild success. When GE was last open, the Rise attraction was still WILDLY unreliable. So that further created the illusion of popularity. but it has yet to be time tested.

Having been on it, I jumped through all the hoops once, but the whole BG experience was...frustrating. I went through all the effort of getting up early, getting my BG, waiting...returning to GE in my designated window, waited, and waited...and the ride broke down while I was in line. If I hadn't been expecting a blockbuster, I'd say the ride was okay. but I was expecting a blockbuster after all the hype and years of waiting. Having done Rise once, my whole group agreed, it wasn't worth all the effort.

I also found the rest of GE a bit disappointing. It looks okay at night, but IMO, a Star Wars land should have been so much more immersive.

When last I visited HS, it was at night. I outright laughed at the idea of paying $200 for.... a flashlight. I don't have a specific answer, but a $200 toy ought to be more. It ought to actually DO something interesting. Plus, after you buy it...you have the problem of actually having to carry it. The droids have the same problem. Adults look downright dorky carrying either around all day. So um, no thanks.

GE's one big success, IMO, is the grenade soda bottles. Those actually look pretty neat, and they are compact enough that I didn't mind carrying one around. I'm not even a huge fan of soda. I passed on the milk: it just looks gross. The water bottles are also well themed, but that isn't much of a return for all they spent on the land.

I don't know what I was expecting. I actually try NOT to expect anything specific when visiting a new ride. The newish WDW rides that impressed me quite a bit is the new Slinky Dog coaster. While it maybe could use a little more storytelling, I love the playfulness of it.

I suppose maybe that's a bit if what GE is missing. The thing that made the original Star Wars great was the playfulness of it. The first Star Wars movie was a great blend of classic storyline with things that were unexpected.