Flying with Kids w/New TSA Screenings

[HouCuseChickie]

Please don't reply to this thread if you have any kind of political agenda...the fact is, some of us are flying and I want to know how people are handling these changes with their kids. I want this to be a great trip to Disney and I don't want it all soured in the airport. So...

Are you allowing your children to go through the body scanners?
OR
Considering TSA is now relaxing the pat down on younger kids (12 and under? or something like that), are you opting for your kids to get the pat down?

I also thought I read somewhere than children young enough (under 3) and unable to follow the scanner directions might be eligible to go through a metal detector vs. scanner or pat down. Anyone have this happen?

We leave in a little over 2 weeks and I'm now trying to devise a plan for going through security. At this point- all I know is that I'm going to take the lead, our girls are going to follow after me, and my husband is going to be the anchor and go last.

 

[erstwo]

It's a very interesting question. We haven't flow as a family since early October and at the time, neither our local, nor our departing airport had the scanners (or the new pat downs.) We won't fly again as a family until the day after Christmas, so I can't tell you what we've done.

I can tell you, I plan to have my children go through the scanners. I have lots of friends who are MD's. Many of them live on my street (we joke that if we have an emergency, we're not calling 911, we're calling next door!) My pediatric ER doctor friend says one x-ray she orders at work would be more radiation than 100 scans at the airport would be. My pediatrician said she sent her 3 boys through them over Fall Break (early October.) The husband of one of my best friends is a reproductive oncologist, and he sent his 3 children through them on his way home from Disney over Fall Break. So, it's scanners for us!

I'm not sure if we'll have to go through them in our local airport after Christmas, but we will have to go through them in OHare on the way home.

 

[Master Yoda]

From a purely avoiding delays and hassles standpoint I would go with the scanner. It looks like many of the health concerns were based on a combination of ignorance, incorrect information and good old fashioned paranoia. Scientists at The Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory found that the effective dose per screening was 1.58 microrems of radiation, while a researcher at the National Institute of Standards and Technology, an agency of the U.S. Department of Commerce, said an adult would be exposed to 2.4 microrems of radiation per scan. That is the equivalent of the amount of radiation you will receive being in a plane at 30k feet for about 3 minuets.

 

[tigsmom]

I find the pat downs more offensive than the scanners. My daughter (22) went through a scanner last Thanksgiving when she came home and had no problems (said it was weird though :shrug: ) and that is her plan again when she flies to Orlando next month.

I know many people are afraid of the radiation exposure, but to cause any significant damage it would have to be much longer and much more frequent (same reason I don't understand why people don't want an xray to rule out a bone break or pneumonia ), I would not hesitate to go through one.

 

[nolatron]

The main concern I've read about the scanners is that while the dose is low, it's being concentrated on your skin rather than through your entire body like normal x-rays. So this is the cause of concern for many*.

As for children, the TSA says they'll give kids 12 and under a pat-down if they set off the metal detector (twice I think).

Personally, I'll have my child (and myself) patted-down instead of getting scanned for health concerns. We fly out to WDW Friday night from MSY where they have a scanner. So we'll see if we get the lucky straw drawn for a pat-down.

Remember, only people who set off the detectors or are randomly picked go through the scanner/pat-down. NOT EVERYBODY.

*One article of many talking about the x-rays.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/af...ocId=CNG.442824fa7c08853af96322d7315a6f02.461

A group of scientists at the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF) raised concerns about the "potential serious health risks" from the scanners in a letter sent to the White House Office of Science and Technology in April.

Biochemist John Sedat and his colleagues said in the letter that most of the energy from the scanners is delivered to the skin and underlying tissue.

"While the dose would be safe if it were distributed throughout the volume of the entire body, the dose to the skin may be dangerously high," they wrote.

The scientists say the X-rays could pose a risk to everyone from travelers over the age of 65 to pregnant women and their unborn babies, to HIV-positive travelers, cancer patients and men.

"Men's sexual organs are exposed to the X-rays. The skin is very thin there," Love explained.

The Office of Science and Technology responded this week to the scientists' letter, saying the scanners have been "tested extensively" by US government agencies and were found to meet safety standards.

But Sedat told AFP Friday: "We still don't know the beam intensity or other details of their classified system."

 

[nolatron]

From a purely avoiding delays and hassles standpoint I would go with the scanner. It looks like many of the health concerns were based on a combination of ignorance, incorrect information and good old fashioned paranoia. Scientists at The Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory found that the effective dose per screening was 1.58 microrems of radiation, while a researcher at the National Institute of Standards and Technology, an agency of the U.S. Department of Commerce, said an adult would be exposed to 2.4 microrems of radiation per scan. That is the equivalent of the amount of radiation you will receive being in a plane at 30k feet for about 3 minuets.

Here's something I came across today that counters that "radiation while flying" example. This is purely for information purposes, not to pick a fight.

http://www.npr.org/assets/news/2010/05/17/concern.pdf

The Letter of Concern was sent to Dr John P Holdren, Assistant to the President for Science and Technology, on April 6, 2010 by medical doctors and professors at the University of California San Fransisco (John Sedat, PhD, Marc Shuman, MD, David Agard, PhD, Robert Stroud, PhD).

The X-ray dose from these devices has often been compared in the media to the cosmic ray exposure inherent to airplane travel or that of a chest X-ray. However, this comparison is very misleading: both the air travel cosmic ray exposure and chest Xrays have much higher X-ray energies and the health consequences are appropriately understood in terms of the whole body volume dose. In contrast, these new airport scanners are largely depositing their energy into the skin and immediately adjacent tissue, and since this is such a small fraction of body weight/vol, possibly by one to two orders of magnitude, the real dose to the skin is now high.

The whole PDF is actually a good read.

So while the media, TSA, some scientist say it's safe, there's many others who argue that it isn't. So that's why I'll just play it safe until there's more factual evidence and all around agreement that the scanners are safe.

Also, I'm pretty sure kids under 12 are exempt from the body scanners entirely. They just get a pat-down as mentioned above. Trying to find where I saw that though.

 

[Master Yoda]

Here's something I came across today that counters that "radiation while flying" example. This is purely for information purposes, not to pick a fight.

http://www.npr.org/assets/news/2010/05/17/concern.pdf

The Letter of Concern was sent to Dr John P Holdren, Assistant to the President for Science and Technology, on April 6, 2010 by medical doctors and professors at the University of California San Fransisco (John Sedat, PhD, Marc Shuman, MD, David Agard, PhD, Robert Stroud, PhD).



So while the media, TSA, some scientist say it's safe, there's many others who argue that it isn't. So that's why I'll just play it safe until there's more factual evidence and all around agreement that the scanners are safe.

Also, I'm pretty sure kids under 12 are exempt from the body scanners entirely. They just get a pat-down as mentioned above. Trying to find where I saw that though.

From my understanding the "deposits the energy on the skin" arguments are invalid because the x-rays are simply not strong enough to penetrate the skin. It would be like saying a blowtorch on your arm is OK but a heating pad would be harmful.

 

[Monty]

There have been ample studies of the levels of radiation involved, all of which say an individual is naturally exposed to considerably more radiation during the course of whatever flight they are boarding than what they're exposed to by the scanner.

As I understand, everyone still passes through metal detectors. If you cause it to alarm or if you're randomly selected, you'll be asked to do the scan. If you refuse the scan, you'll be subject to the pat down.

 

[greebomusic]

We'll be flying in 90 days. Myself, my 7 year old son and my pregnant wife have all decided to go through the scanner if needed.

 

[HouCuseChickie]

Right now we're also leaning towards the scanners. Labor Day weekend was the last time we flew and I don't think the Houston airports had the scanners at that point. My research has come up with similar info to Master Yoda's with regard to the safety concerns of the scanners. It's just those random "experts" coming out with safety concerns that bug me. It's like the Trident commercials- i.e. 9 out of 10 pediatricians would recommend the scanner for kids- it's that 10th dr that's making me question things. The pat down would definitely be psychologically jarring for my kids- especially DD4 who is easily freaked out and very fearful of strangers.

 

[Tater48]

Just got back this afternoon from our trip to the World. In reference to the TSA fiasco that is rearing it's ugly head, this is what I saw both in Houston and in Orlando. The Backspatter(AIT) imaging machines were not being used at all when we departed on the 17th from Houston and we saw no one receive the "pat down". Just the metal detectors were being utilized The AIT machines were turned off with signs posted on them. When we went through security in Orlando, we went through the metal detectors, as did all the other passengers. We sat and watched for about 15 minutes and the only person we saw subjected to either of their "new" practices was an older woman that was probably in her early 70's. They placed this woman in the machine, had her raise her hands to the top of her head and stand there. Other than that, we saw nothing except the standard old security checks. However, they seemed to be a little on the polite side this trip. Lots of thank you's and have a nice days flying about from TSA employee's. Anyone else have any experiences other than this. Something about this just didn't seem right. Maybe they are getting ready to drop the hammer a little bit closer to the holidays.

 

[GOT2SAMMIES]

same here..we left mco last week 11/13 and did not have go thru the scanners..hell I dont even remeber seeing them.... Now I did one person get a pat down but that was because he had a prostetic leg or something.. Here is what I would suggest:
Go thru the scanners
make sure your kids to not have ANYTHING that might remotely cause the thing to beep....belts, keys, cell phones, earrings.....
Have them go first in front of you so you can witness everything the TSA agents are instructing your kids to do. That way if they dont understand you can tell them BEFORE they go the machine
Try to have everything out in the bins in an orderly fashion- sometimes this is hard..shoes..computers out of the bags...
When in doubt ASK... I wasn;t sure about food in the carry ons- now you can have food just not drinks
Good Luck and enjoy

 

[HouCuseChickie]

Just got back this afternoon from our trip to the World. In reference to the TSA fiasco that is rearing it's ugly head, this is what I saw both in Houston and in Orlando. The Backspatter(AIT) imaging machines were not being used at all when we departed on the 17th from Houston and we saw no one receive the "pat down". Just the metal detectors were being utilized The AIT machines were turned off with signs posted on them. When we went through security in Orlando, we went through the metal detectors, as did all the other passengers. We sat and watched for about 15 minutes and the only person we saw subjected to either of their "new" practices was an older woman that was probably in her early 70's. They placed this woman in the machine, had her raise her hands to the top of her head and stand there. Other than that, we saw nothing except the standard old security checks. However, they seemed to be a little on the polite side this trip. Lots of thank you's and have a nice days flying about from TSA employee's. Anyone else have any experiences other than this. Something about this just didn't seem right. Maybe they are getting ready to drop the hammer a little bit closer to the holidays.

All sounds good!- very encouraging! :sohappy: Out of curiosity- did you fly out of Intercontinental or Hobby? We're going out of IAH.

 

[Tater48]

All sounds good!- very encouraging! :sohappy: Out of curiosity- did you fly out of Intercontinental or Hobby? We're going out of IAH.

We always fly out of Bush Intercontinental as its only about 15 minutes from the house.

 

[kangaand2roos]

I feel very umcomfortable with either choice at this point. It's like you are forced to pick the lesser of 2 evils for you and your children. We aren't going to WDW until September and I hope they smooth the wrinkles of their new system out and/or amend the new system or we are seriously considering spending over 24 hours on a train instead of the 3 hours on a plane. When it comes to my kids I refuse to take unknown risks.

 

[HouCuseChickie]

same here..we left mco last week 11/13 and did not have go thru the scanners..hell I dont even remeber seeing them.... Now I did one person get a pat down but that was because he had a prostetic leg or something.. Here is what I would suggest:
Go thru the scanners
make sure your kids to not have ANYTHING that might remotely cause the thing to beep....belts, keys, cell phones, earrings.....
Have them go first in front of you so you can witness everything the TSA agents are instructing your kids to do. That way if they dont understand you can tell them BEFORE they go the machine
Try to have everything out in the bins in an orderly fashion- sometimes this is hard..shoes..computers out of the bags...
When in doubt ASK... I wasn;t sure about food in the carry ons- now you can have food just not drinks
Good Luck and enjoy

That's pretty much the approach we're taking. The girls won't be wearing any hair clips or bows until after we're through security and we'll be sticking to all fabric outfits with no snaps or buttons that might set off a machine. Everything else for security is pretty much clockwork.

We always fly out of Bush Intercontinental as its only about 15 minutes from the house.

Lucky! We are closer to Hobby, but I prefer Continental.

I feel very umcomfortable with either choice at this point. It's like you are forced to pick the lesser of 2 evils for you and your children. We aren't going to WDW until September and I hope they smooth the wrinkles of their new system out and/or amend the new system or we are seriously considering spending over 24 hours on a train instead of the 3 hours on a plane. When it comes to my kids I refuse to take unknown risks.

Hopefully, things will be better by the time you fly.

 

[jacalynsue]

I'm totally dismayed with the new "security" procedures. I strongly object to the abuse of power by the TSA. Police have more restrictions on their searches than the TSA agents.

We have no way of knowing if the scanners are working properly and delivering a "safe" dose of radiation. An X-ray for a medical problem is one thing, the benefits justify the risks. But this? It's not worth the risk. I also worry about the prolonged exposure the TSA agents are getting. In a hospital, the technician moves to another room. At the airport, exposure is constant for the TSA agents.

The other option is to put a kid in puberty through a very intrusive pat down? That's not an acceptable option.

Basically, the terrorists have won if this is what we allow our airlines to do in the name of "safety." I truly would rather go back to the old procedures and take my chances. Life is risk.

The thought of 2 full days in the car with the kids is unpleasant at best. Given the limited timeframe we have for travel, it also cuts into our vacation time. We probably won't go to Disney again unless the situation improves. And that means the terrorists have won.

I had hoped there would be a huge scene at the airports yesterday. I understand why it didn't: People wanted to get home to their family for the holiday. But until the public pushes back, it's just going to get worse.

What's next? Flying naked? Body cavity searches? I'll pass.

I WANT to go to Disney World. But not if it means I have to endure an unreasonable ordeal to get there and back. It breaks my heart.

 

[nicumom]

We leave in 3 days and I will opt for the pat down for my kids, so long as I can watch. I have read too much about the other options and don't want to risk a machine malfunctioning with the red light stuck on one part of their body. A friend of mine just had a pat down - and requested the privacy screen - they did not allow her to have it - and they lifted her dress up in front of everyone. She was mortified. I understand the security issue but they could still show some respect. With people and video cameras / phones - I wouldn't want to be caught with my dress up that's for sure. Even if I looked like a super model.

 

[Monty]

My son and I just returned from WDW. We were not subjected to anything other than walking through a metal detector flying there and back. I made sure we travelled with absolute minimum metals incorporated into our clothing and I removed my rather large watch, neither of us ever set off the metal detector.

We had discussed the options should we be selected for screening and both agreed that [as my son said, although "creepy"] we would opt for the screening over the pat down.

I personally don't see it as a big deal unless you're paranoid about what is said to be minimal exposure to radiation. :shrug: I would be much more upset if I were forced to accept the pat down.

 

[sshindel]

For our recent flight, the only complaint we had is that here in Hartford, they asked us to take off my 2yo's sweatshirt since she had a shirt underneath, which along with all the other mess of the security line (we only had to go through metal detectors in the Family and Medical Liquids Lane) scared her to tears. My wife was furious, but I was a bit more understanding. The TSA guy was obviously not in the right according to other TSA folks we spoke to, but I'm sure that they are doing their best with what training they have.

Orlando was a breeze, those folks down there know what they are doing, and the security line was no issue.

Kids / parents were going through the standard metal detectors with no added checks both sides of the trips.