FLE Capacity

[Scuttle]

was that considered an expansion or just a delayed opening? I guess the question is if those areas were planned prior to opening.

I'm almost certain Tomorrowland had a planned phase 2. I do know for certain the Space Mountain or Star Port project dates back to 1965 with early concepts from John Hench and it was located on the Magic Kingdoms original blueprint. One of the senior members on here will know. Can you guys imagine being able to ride the skyway while all this construction was going on? I wish someone would post pictures of the Tomorrowland construction site. There has to be some out there.

 

[IlikeDW]

Did some Googling this evening, and came up with some amazing capacity numbers. The Tomorrowland expansion of 1975 (Space Mountain & Carousel of Progress in January '75, and the PeopleMover in July '75) added some truly massive ride capacity to the park that year. It helps that the Carousel Theater and PeopleMover ride systems are the two highest ride capacity systems they've ever built, but still, the Tomorrowland expansion of '75 was truly epic.

Sit down before you read these numbers...

Tomorrowland Expansion 1975 Hourly Capacity
Space Mountain - 1800 riders per hour
Carousel of Progress - 3600 riders per hour
PeopleMover - 4000 riders per hour
Total 1975 Expansion = 9400 riders per hour



Versus what we already know about the Fantasyland Expansion of 2012-14 based on the existing DCA version of Mermaid, the doubling of the current Dumbo capacity, a guesstimate of the mine train, and a subtraction for the closure of Snow White's Scary Adventures.

Fantasyland Expansion 2012-14 Hourly Capacity
Little Mermaid - 2000 riders per hour
Dumbo (the gain of one additional spinner) - 600 riders per hour
Mine Train - 1200 riders per hour
Snow White's Scary Adventures - Subract 700 riders per hour
Total 2012-14 Expansion = 3100 riders per hour

It's roughly one-third the ride capacity they added to Tomorrowland back in '75. Amazing, isn't it? :animwink:

Probably need to add the Fairytale hall meet and greet to that, since it will be in addition to what ever meet and greet is back in the circus land. not sure what the hourly on meet and greets is

 

[danlb_2000]

Probably need to add the Fairytale hall meet and greet to that, since it will be in addition to what ever meet and greet is back in the circus land. not sure what the hourly on meet and greets is

If you are going to add the meet and greets you would also have to add Story Time with Belle, but we have no idea what capacity that will have.

 

[TP2000]

I'm almost certain Tomorrowland had a planned phase 2. I do know for certain the Space Mountain or Star Port project dates back to 1965 with early concepts from John Hench and it was located on the Magic Kingdoms original blueprint.

Space Mountain was first conceived in sketch form for Disneyland in 1965, before the announcement of Disney World in November, 1965. John Hench did some absolutely fabulous color sketches of the upcoming New Tomorrowland project for Disneyland that opened in 1967, and Space Mountain as a roller coaster concept in the back of the land appeared in all of them from 1965.

Here's one of the first sketches of Space Mountain in Disneyland's Tomorrowland from 1965, although it wouldn't show up in that spot until 1977. On the left is the GE Carousel of Progress and in the foreground is the PeopleMover station that did show up in 1967, and on the right is the concept for the Ford animatronic show that did not show up at any time in Disneyland (Disney was wooing Ford to come back to Anaheim after the World's Fair with a New Tomorrowland animatronic revue. Ford thought they had a better idea, and passed on it.)

From this 1971 site plan for the WDW "Theme Park", you can see that they had something big planned for the eastern edge of Tomorrowland. Although it was likely considered to be a Space Mountain concept of some sort, the circular building hadn't yet been landed on. They also didn't have the Carousel Theater and PeopleMover quite figured out yet. Tomorrowland circa 1971 seemed to be a simple placeholder jumble of angular buildings that they would figure out later. As we all know, Space Mountain turned out to be massive and ended up pushing beyond the railroad tracks and the interior of Tomorrowland was used for multiple new attractions in a different layout.

http://passport2dreams.blogspot.com/2010/10/shakedown-at-magic-kingdom.html

What's interesting about that image above is that it shows the big blank spot to the northwest of the 20K Leagues submarine ride. That's land that is being used for the Beauty and the Beast complex of restaurants and the Storytime with Belle meet n' greet. Using that as a point of reference, there is where the "expansion" of Fantasyland comes from as it is acreage that was previously unused.

 

[NewfieFan]

Did some Googling this evening, and came up with some amazing capacity numbers. The Tomorrowland expansion of 1975 (Space Mountain & Carousel of Progress in January '75, and the PeopleMover in July '75) added some truly massive ride capacity to the park that year. It helps that the Carousel Theater and PeopleMover ride systems are the two highest ride capacity systems they've ever built, but still, the Tomorrowland expansion of '75 was truly epic.

Sit down before you read these numbers...

Tomorrowland Expansion 1975 Hourly Capacity
Space Mountain - 1800 riders per hour
Carousel of Progress - 3600 riders per hour
PeopleMover - 4000 riders per hour
Total 1975 Expansion = 9400 riders per hour

Versus what we already know about the Fantasyland Expansion of 2012-14 based on the existing DCA version of Mermaid, the doubling of the current Dumbo capacity, a guesstimate of the mine train, and a subtraction for the closure of Snow White's Scary Adventures.

Fantasyland Expansion 2012-14 Hourly Capacity
Little Mermaid - 2000 riders per hour
Dumbo (the gain of one additional spinner) - 600 riders per hour
Mine Train - 1200 riders per hour
Snow White's Scary Adventures - Subract 700 riders per hour
Total 2012-14 Expansion = 3100 riders per hour

It's roughly one-third the ride capacity they added to Tomorrowland back in '75. Amazing, isn't it? :animwink:

I don't think it's fair to subtract 700 riders per hour for SWSA - did that ride ever put 700 riders through an hour!?! :animwink: Seriously though, the numbers are interesting when you lay them out like that! Although I think the actual capacity will be a little better than that for the new FL. We'll have a M&G in Storybook Circus and Storytime with Belle which I'm sure will eat a few up in an hour.

 

[unkadug]

I don't think it's fair to subtract 700 riders per hour for SWSA - did that ride ever put 700 riders through an hour!?! :animwink: Seriously though, the numbers are interesting when you lay them out like that! Although I think the actual capacity will be a little better than that for the new FL. We'll have a M&G in Storybook Circus and Storytime with Belle which I'm sure will eat a few up in an hour.

Yeah...and does the CoP ever put through 3600 per hour? :lol:

 

[Tim Lohr]

Actually, pretty much the entire BatB area was backstage space when 20,000 Leagues was there, you can see this in the Google Earth images from 2002. Also, 20K took up a lot of space for relatively low capacity, so for the same space the FL expansion will offer more guest capacity.

Dan

Their ads claim the Expansion "will double the size of Fantasyland" they don't say anything about capacity

p.s. lighten up its just a joke

 

[Mike730]

Did some Googling this evening, and came up with some amazing capacity numbers. The Tomorrowland expansion of 1975 (Space Mountain & Carousel of Progress in January '75, and the PeopleMover in July '75) added some truly massive ride capacity to the park that year. It helps that the Carousel Theater and PeopleMover ride systems are the two highest ride capacity systems they've ever built, but still, the Tomorrowland expansion of '75 was truly epic.

Sit down before you read these numbers...

Tomorrowland Expansion 1975 Hourly Capacity
Space Mountain - 1800 riders per hour
Carousel of Progress - 3600 riders per hour
PeopleMover - 4000 riders per hour
Total 1975 Expansion = 9400 riders per hour

Versus what we already know about the Fantasyland Expansion of 2012-14 based on the existing DCA version of Mermaid, the doubling of the current Dumbo capacity, a guesstimate of the mine train, and a subtraction for the closure of Snow White's Scary Adventures.

Fantasyland Expansion 2012-14 Hourly Capacity
Little Mermaid - 2000 riders per hour
Dumbo (the gain of one additional spinner) - 600 riders per hour
Mine Train - 1200 riders per hour
Snow White's Scary Adventures - Subract 700 riders per hour
Total 2012-14 Expansion = 3100 riders per hour

It's roughly one-third the ride capacity they added to Tomorrowland back in '75. Amazing, isn't it? :animwink:

Those numbers are absolutely incredible. Who woulda thought? Okay, so we can see that the ride capacity is perhaps not that much, but I dont think this is what anyone in TDO cares about, nor do I think it's what actually effects the added capacity of FLE. It seems to me that the importance of the expansion is the total land area being added. For example, look at Epcot's attraction line-up compared to MK. Not too impressive, but the capacity is much greater because it is HUGE. There are SO many paths and areas of open land in Epcot that MK doesn't have, hence why its never filled to capacity. If we take MK in Walt's eyes as a 'show' (theater and stage), we can see the goal of the expansion in TDO's eyes is to add more seats to the theater (more capacity) but keep the same show (good ole MK). But simply adding those seats isn't enough, because something has to attract paying tourists to fill those seats (new attractions). But again TDO wants to save money so 'new attractions' actually (and cynically) means a stinkin' restaurant, a DCA clone, some meet and greets, and one new unique attraction. Basically, I think the increase in capacity really has to do with how much land FLE adds, which can probably be figured out on google maps.

 

[jjharvpro]

Now I'm not the one to come to to ask for numbers and specifics for ride capacities...but I do know this -- this expansion will completely change what we see Fantasyland as and we'll be enveloped in this whole forest feel. An Imagineer at the Carousel of Projects exhibit at the Expo told me that they're really shooting for the forest feel, to be immersed in this forest-y world. I have a feeling that it'll all feel so big and spacious when it's all open.

 

[pppapazo]

Now I'm not the one to come to to ask for numbers and specifics for ride capacities...but I do know this -- this expansion will completely change what we see Fantasyland as and we'll be enveloped in this whole forest feel. An Imagineer at the Carousel of Projects exhibit at the Expo told me that they're really shooting for the forest feel, to be immersed in this forest-y world. I have a feeling that it'll all feel so big and spacious when it's all open.

When it's all open? I can't wait to see it in 10 years when it's all filled in.

 

[Mike730]

Now I'm not the one to come to to ask for numbers and specifics for ride capacities...but I do know this -- this expansion will completely change what we see Fantasyland as and we'll be enveloped in this whole forest feel. An Imagineer at the Carousel of Projects exhibit at the Expo told me that they're really shooting for the forest feel, to be immersed in this forest-y world. I have a feeling that it'll all feel so big and spacious when it's all open.

I agree and I think that's feasible. The Mine train seems to be pretty foresty and from the aerials theres clearly lots of tress going in...

 

[jjharvpro]

I agree and I think that's feasible. The Mine train seems to be pretty foresty and from the aerials theres clearly lots of tress going in...

Oh and there's much more to come! Take a look at pictures of the model from the Expo and even the concept art..really looking forward to being immersed in Fantasy Forest!