FastPass+ open to all guests including offsite beginning next week at Disney's Animal Kingdom

[wm49rs]

so..gradual phase out until noone remembers it?

It's worked wonders for them before....

 

[disney4life2008]

Firstly, I would imagine that during Spring Break, with waits of 2-4 hours, you weren't getting more than 3 FPs in a single day anyway (assuming you get one at 9 am for 10 am, but 10 am you are probably looking at a 1 pm FP for anything worthwhile, and by 1 pm you'd be lucky to get a 9 pm FP for Peter Pan).

Not true. I was at MK July 4th where the park reached capacity by late morning. I was there from 8am until 2am and was able to score fastpasses: 3 Space Mountain FB, 2 Splash Mountain, 2 BTMR, FP for Peter Pan, as well as do the entire park and many attractions more than once. MK is doable on major holidays thanks to fp. However, under the new system I am screwed.

 

[Next Big Thing]

I've seen this complaint a bunch but when we were there last week, we never once had it not register for a ride that we had a FP+ for. I'm curious if this is really a common occurrence -- my guess is that most of the people who are coming up as not having a FP+ don't actually have one because they are mistaken about the ride/time they booked, changed it, tried to change but didn't complete the process, etc.

I think you're right for the most part. It seems like people are so confused with the new system that they think they have a fastpass booked, but it may get cancelled if they went back in and played with the app again. Or maybe they didn't confirm. Maybe they picked another FP at an overlapping time as the FP they are trying to use, which would cancel said FP.

There are multiple ways things can get screwed up and there's really no way to trace things back unless you screenshot your FP reservation and pull it up later. The lack of FP kiosks around the park is a big problem too. It wasn't a problem for us bc we have smart phones, but you could tell others had problems with it. It's not a bad idea for a system, it's really not. It actually works pretty well in most areas. FP+ is where the entire thing falls apart though. If they can't get it figured out, this will continue to be a disaster.

 

[danv3]

I'm not sure they ever will. Instead, the announcements FP+ will simply continue, with the old system going by the eventual wayside....

Certainly seems likely. I don't know that we'll ever have a "FP is gone" announcement. There will just be more and more FP+ and less and less Classic FP until one day Classic FP is gone.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Not true. I was at MK July 4th where the park reached capacity by late morning. I was there from 8am until 2am and was able to score fastpasses: 3 Space Mountain FB, 2 Splash Mountain, 2 BTMR, FP for Peter Pan, as well as do the entire park and many attractions more than once. MK is doable on major holidays thanks to fp. However, under the new system I am screwed.

That is impressive, though atypical, holiday touring of the park.

 

[GoofGoof]

I'm not sure they ever will. Instead, the announcements FP+ will simply continue, with the old system going by the eventual wayside....

There will never be a FP is gone announcement. If anything there may eventually be a FP+ is available to everyone announcement that corresponds to the end of the old fastpass system. PR 101 never tell them what was taken away only what has been added.

 

[GoofGoof]

Not true. I was at MK July 4th where the park reached capacity by late morning. I was there from 8am until 2am and was able to score fastpasses: 3 Space Mountain FB, 2 Splash Mountain, 2 BTMR, FP for Peter Pan, as well as do the entire park and many attractions more than once. MK is doable on major holidays thanks to fp. However, under the new system I am screwed.

You are definitely in one of the categories of guests who will be most impacted by the new system.

 

[GoofGoof]

And can anyone tell me why we would buy Park Hoppers anymore. The Fast pass only works at one park, so why would anyone leave that first park.

1) A lot of people park hop for meals. Take EPCOT as a big example. Spend the day at DHS and hop to EPCOT for dinner and maybe illuminations.
2) If you are there in the summer when the parks stay open late if you go to AK first thing in the morning you could hop to MK at night. AK closes by 7pm or earlier anyway. Lines late at night tend to be less especially when the MK is open until midnight or later, no need for FP.
3) On a day where you visit AK first then go to a second park you can use your FP reservations for the 2nd park. Assuming you get to AK early the only attractions with any wait are EE or the Safari. Head straight to 1, then do the other and then tour the rest of AK at your leisure. If your 2nd park is for example DHS you could book TSMM, ToT and Star Tours with FP+. This plan was actually not possible before FP+ since TSMM would be out of FP well before you got there.
4) You could do the exact opposite of #3 and book your 3 FP reservations for 9am to noon. You only get 3 anyway so what difference does it make which park you are in once your 3 have been used. Whether you stay in the same park or hop to another park you aren't getting anymore FPs so why not hop?
5) If you are staying on property you can go to a park for morning EMHs when FP isn't even running and then hop somewhere else after crowds pick up in a few hours. Make your FP reservations for the second park. Flip this for evening EMHs using FP for the first park you visit then hop to evening EMHs.
6) If you are staying either on the monorail loop or at an EPCOT resort it's so convenient to get to either MK or EPCOT that it's worth it to hop over there even for a short time after a day at another park. For example if you are staying at CR and went to EPCOT for the day on your way back to CR you pass right by MK. It's so convenient to stop in (assuming the park is open) and watch Electric Light Parade or Wishes or ride a few rides. For the EPCOT resorts if you are back to the room before EPCOT officially closes it's very tempting to stop in the French bakery for dessert

 

[mm52200]

There will never be a FP is gone announcement. If anything there may eventually be a FP+ is available to everyone announcement that corresponds to the end of the old fastpass system. PR 101 never tell them what was taken away only what has been added.

Prime Example: There was never an official announcement that the Pixar Pals Countdown to Fun parade and Disney Channel Rocks were closing because there was no possible way to take a typical Disney PR "positive" spin on it.

 

[RSoxNo1]

It bears repeating... it's mathematically impossible for every line to be longer concurrently with the same attraction capacity unless there are more people.

FP would create longer standby lines by creating different priority queues - it shifted people and used different priorities. But it's a shell game in terms of moving the impact. It doesn't happen everywhere simultaneously.

You need more bodies physically taking up a slot to have any wait extended... and the same body can't be in multiple places at the same time.

If you are seeing new waits somewhere.. that means somewhere else there isn't.

It sounds like Fastpass+ is succeeding in getting more people to use Fastpass. That's the other end of the shell game. Us, as experienced park goers are getting hurt by it. Other people are getting more out of the parks than they were previously. In theory it's spreading out the crowds, but has there been a decrease in wait times elsewhere? The one area where it would be harder to notice is the actual Fastpass wait times. However, that doesn't sound like it's happening.

Again, I call to @lentesta for the information on this. Is it possible that on the whole, guests are experiencing more attractions per day with Fastpass+ even if us "experts" are seeing less?

 

[RSoxNo1]

Universal has 2400 Deluxe Resort rooms with no immediate plans to expand in that market.

For comparison, WDW has 5,652 Deluxe Resort rooms plus another 4,359 DVC rooms. That's 10,000 "Deluxe" rooms for 1 great theme park and 3 theme parks that desperately need more rides.

Universal's Cabana Bay is targeted for the Value Resort market and will not have free Express Pass access.

Universal has so much excess ride capacity that not only can they offer free unlimited Express Pass to their Deluxe Resort guests, but they also can sell their excess capacity to day guests.

Universal does not have WDW's ride capacity problems.

WDW needs to stop building hotels and DVC and start adding more attractions!

Universal has said that they are expanding their hotel rooms, and presumably adding a 3rd park. The thing is, they're adding incentive (new attractions) to go with the new hotel rooms.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I just read that Magic Kingdom just removed the Fast Pass Machines for Stitch. I know a lot of people don't really care about that ride anyways, but it is still very sad seeing the removal of fast pass machines have begun.

I don't care what anyone says, 3 fast passes are not enough. Especially when your in Disney during spring break for your children's vacation from school and wait times are 120-240 minutes. Unless something changes for the better, Disney has now made a lot of Disney Parents mad.

And can anyone tell me why we would buy Park Hoppers anymore. The Fast pass only works at one park, so why would anyone leave that first park.

Those were removed a while ago.

 

[GoofGoof]

It sounds like Fastpass+ is succeeding in getting more people to use Fastpass. That's the other end of the shell game. Us, as experienced park goers are getting hurt by it. Other people are getting more out of the parks than they were previously. In theory it's spreading out the crowds, but has there been a decrease in wait times elsewhere? The one area where it would be harder to notice is the actual Fastpass wait times. However, that doesn't sound like it's happening.

Again, I call to @lentesta for the information on this. Is it possible that on the whole, guests are experiencing more attractions per day with Fastpass+ even if us "experts" are seeing less?

This is most likely true. It's like socialism for fastpass

If the FP capacity has increased with new rides being added but a large number of veteran guests are stating that the 3 reservations are less then they would normally take under the old system then mathematically there must be a lot of guests using 3 now who used less in the past or new guests who didn't use the old system at all. Or there could end up being significant unused FP capacity, especially during less busy times.

 

[lentesta]

It sounds like Fastpass+ is succeeding in getting more people to use Fastpass. That's the other end of the shell game. Us, as experienced park goers are getting hurt by it. Other people are getting more out of the parks than they were previously. In theory it's spreading out the crowds, but has there been a decrease in wait times elsewhere? The one area where it would be harder to notice is the actual Fastpass wait times. However, that doesn't sound like it's happening.

Again, I call to @lentesta for the information on this. Is it possible that on the whole, guests are experiencing more attractions per day with Fastpass+ even if us "experts" are seeing less?

This NY Times article says the average guest experiences 10 attractions per day. That's up from 9, and from the text of the article it sounds like a lot of work went into getting that +1. That was from 2010, during the infrastructure buildup for MM+.

I'd be moderately surprised if FP+ led to more guests experiencing more rides. The FP+ roadmap explicitly allowed for a average standby increase of 1-3 minutes at all attractions, and 6-8 minutes at headliners. If it was the opposite - more rides - you'd see that mentioned as a benefit. The way I read that slide, it was more like "wait times are going to go up, but we're getting personalization and extra revenue to make up for it."

The roadmap's predictions were also before park-wide FP+ tiering at Epcot and DHS, which forces you into at least one headliner standby line if you want to hit the big attractions.

The other thing to note, and I think you've mentioned it @RSoxNo1, is that many of the attractions that have FP+ don't need it. If you'd already planned to see parades, fireworks or shows, and you're using FP+ to get a preferred spot or guaranteed seating, that's no net increase in the number of attractions experienced.

I could be wrong. It could be that, you know, simply displaying the option to visit Imagination to some guests, causes them to visit when they otherwise wouldn't. Or it could be that FP+ causes people to stay in the park a lot longer, giving them more time to see attractions even when the standby lines increase. I don't know if I'd bet my household pets on that being true, but it's possible.

 

[asianway]

This NY Times article says the average guest experiences 10 attractions per day. That's up from 9, and from the text of the article it sounds like a lot of work went into getting that +1. That was from 2010, during the infrastructure buildup for MM+.

I'd be moderately surprised if FP+ led to more guests experiencing more rides. The FP+ roadmap explicitly allowed for a average standby increase of 1-3 minutes at all attractions, and 6-8 minutes at headliners. If it was the opposite - more rides - you'd see that mentioned as a benefit. The way I read that slide, it was more like "wait times are going to go up, but we're getting personalization and extra revenue to make up for it."

The roadmap's predictions were also before park-wide FP+ tiering at Epcot and DHS, which forces you into at least one headliner standby line if you want to hit the big attractions.

The other thing to note, and I think you've mentioned it @RSoxNo1, is that many of the attractions that have FP+ don't need it. If you'd already planned to see parades, fireworks or shows, and you're using FP+ to get a preferred spot or guaranteed seating, that's no net increase in the number of attractions experienced.

I could be wrong. It could be that, you know, simply displaying the option to visit Imagination to some guests, causes them to visit when they otherwise wouldn't. Or it could be that FP+ causes people to stay in the park a lot longer, giving them more time to see attractions even when the standby lines increase. I don't know if I'd bet my household pets on that being true, but it's possible.

The article also erroneously states entertainment is dispatched based on crowd patterns which is not and has never been the case. There are no pop up characters anymore and the parade staff has a very rigid schedule they are previously committed to. I've always discounted the rest of the article as propaganda as well. Plus, Brooks Barnes....

 

[ParentsOf4]

I'd be moderately surprised if FP+ led to more guests experiencing more rides. The FP+ roadmap explicitly allowed for a average standby increase of 1-3 minutes at all attractions, and 6-8 minutes at headliners. If it was the opposite - more rides - you'd see that mentioned as a benefit. The way I read that slide, it was more like "wait times are going to go up, but we're getting personalization and extra revenue to make up for it."

FP+ should do a better job than FP at reducing wait times on super headliner attractions for less experienced onsite guests.

Wow, that sentence contained a lot of qualifiers!

Essentially, someone who is staying onsite and who is less familiar with WDW will be guaranteed 3 FP+ selections per day. They'll have the option of picking the times they want (vs. whatever FP gave them) and should, theoretically, plan their days around their FP+ selections and be more likely to use them.

If you weren't at DHS for rope drop and did not participate in the morning dash, then the chance of you getting a good return time for TSM was essentially nil.

Now, that lovely family of 4 with 2 young children staying onsite at a WDW resort (Disney's bread-and-butter) should be able to secure a FP+ selection for TSM before they leave home. That same family might be unable to ride RnRC due to height restrictions so tiering in this one particular case might have minimal impact.

FP+ works for guests that fit certain profiles. It does not work for everyone.

FP+ does not increase ride capacity. At best, FP+ is a zero-sum game.

In fact, if MM+ encourages longer visits (with corresponding increased crowd levels), then lines at WDW will increase due to increased demand.

If MM+ succeeds in its business objectives, then everyone waits in line longer.

 

[RSoxNo1]

This NY Times article says the average guest experiences 10 attractions per day. That's up from 9, and from the text of the article it sounds like a lot of work went into getting that +1. That was from 2010, during the infrastructure buildup for MM+.

I'd be moderately surprised if FP+ led to more guests experiencing more rides. The FP+ roadmap explicitly allowed for a average standby increase of 1-3 minutes at all attractions, and 6-8 minutes at headliners. If it was the opposite - more rides - you'd see that mentioned as a benefit. The way I read that slide, it was more like "wait times are going to go up, but we're getting personalization and extra revenue to make up for it."

The roadmap's predictions were also before park-wide FP+ tiering at Epcot and DHS, which forces you into at least one headliner standby line if you want to hit the big attractions.

The other thing to note, and I think you've mentioned it @RSoxNo1, is that many of the attractions that have FP+ don't need it. If you'd already planned to see parades, fireworks or shows, and you're using FP+ to get a preferred spot or guaranteed seating, that's no net increase in the number of attractions experienced.

I could be wrong. It could be that, you know, simply displaying the option to visit Imagination to some guests, causes them to visit when they otherwise wouldn't. Or it could be that FP+ causes people to stay in the park a lot longer, giving them more time to see attractions even when the standby lines increase. I don't know if I'd bet my household pets on that being true, but it's possible.

They've tested the last part of this with surprise Fastpasses. I'm sure it works to a certain extent, but the reality is surprise Fastpasses never resulted in an increase that actually generated a line at Carousel of Progress or PhilharMagic.

FP+ should do a better job than FP at reducing wait times on super headliner attractions for less experienced onsite guests.

Wow, that sentence contained a lot of qualifiers!

Essentially, someone who is staying onsite and who is less familiar with WDW will be guaranteed 3 FP+ selections per day. They'll have the option of picking the times they want (vs. whatever FP gave them) and should, theoretically, plan their days around their FP+ selections and be more likely to use them.

If you weren't at DHS for rope drop and did not participate in the morning dash, then the chance of you getting a good return time for TSM was essentially nil.

Now, that lovely family of 4 with 2 young children staying onsite at a WDW resort (Disney's bread-and-butter) should be able to secure a FP+ selection for TSM before they leave home. That same family might be unable to ride RnRC due to height restrictions so tiering in this one particular case might have minimal impact.

FP+ works for guests that fit certain profiles. It does not work for everyone.

FP+ does not increase ride capacity. At best, FP+ is a zero-sum game.

In fact, if MM+ encourages longer visits (with corresponding increased crowd levels), then lines at WDW will increase due to increased demand.

If MM+ succeeds in its business objectives, then everyone waits in line longer.

Nothing about Fastpass+ changes the total number of riders that can experience a given attraction. Attractions that were already running at near 100% efficiency aren't going to see an increase in ridership. However, if an attraction like Pirates was running at 80% efficiency before and is now running at 90% efficiency (meaning 10% more people are riding per day) then it could explain the larger crowds midday as well as help satisfy more guests daily.

Back to @lentesta's point about the increase from 9 to 10 attractions per day, If they sincerely fought hard to get there, they're not really trying. I suspect that The Little Mermaid and the 2nd Dumbo spinner had a lot more to do that with that increase in attractions per day than Fastpass+. Let's say that between New Fantasyland's additions, less Snow White's Scary Adventures they've added 2500 more capacity an hour. Over a 12 hour day that's 30,000 more "spots" on attractions that weren't there in 2011.

 

[Snowflake82]

The other thing to note, and I think you've mentioned it @RSoxNo1, is that many of the attractions that have FP+ don't need it. If you'd already planned to see parades, fireworks or shows, and you're using FP+ to get a preferred spot or guaranteed seating, that's no net increase in the number of attractions experienced.

I would think it likely that folks with FP+ for parades/fireworks would be able to fit in an additional attraction using the time that's saved by not staking out a good spot way in advance, but I have no data, anacedotal or otherwise, as to whether or not that is actually happening.

Other than that, I agree with everything else Len is saying. If the average count of attractions experienced was expected to increase, there is no way that Disney would not be trumpeting that from the rooftops.

 

[kimbermouse]

Can someone tell me how to schedule this? My family will be there March 29-April 6, 2014. When I log in to My Disney Experience, and go to schedule fastpass+, it tells me we aren't eligible for the dates posted and won't let me change to our dates. I called to make a payment and the CM said we could schedule them! I am getting frustrated!!!!

 

[ToTBellHop]

Can someone tell me how to schedule this? My family will be there March 29-April 6, 2014. When I log in to My Disney Experience, and go to schedule fastpass+, it tells me we aren't eligible for the dates posted and won't let me change to our dates. I called to make a payment and the CM said we could schedule them! I am getting frustrated!!!!

You are more than 60 days out.