FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

Status
Not open for further replies.

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
It is annoying it's all the same stuff at every shop. Zaps the fun out of it.

That's the thing -- there used to be a reason to go into all the different shops because they had different stuff, especially at the Magic Kingdom with its themed stores. Disney-MGM used to have unique stores too.

Now if you want anything remotely unique, it's basically the stores around the World Showcase (for the most part) and a handful of others in specific areas, but even those tend to have mostly the same merchandise just with a few exceptions (like in Pandora).
 

DisneyDodo

Well-Known Member
I can’t believe I’m saying this…but Disney needs a 5th park. Will it cost more. Yes. Will Disney make more. Probably. Will Disney guests spread out more and have a better experience. Likely
A 5th park will not solve these problems. Disney has a hard-enough time maintaining the 4 that exist right now. Add another and pretty soon they will all look like present-day Epcot or 2017 DHS. They can spread out the crowds just as much by adding more attractions to the ample space available in the existing parks. The problem is that they won’t.
 

DisneyDodo

Well-Known Member
A 5th park will not solve these problems. Disney has a hard-enough time maintaining the 4 that exist right now. Add another and pretty soon they will all look like present-day Epcot or 2017 DHS. They can spread out the crowds just as much by adding more attractions to the ample space available in the existing parks. The problem is that they won’t.
The guest : park ratio is not too high, the guest : capacity ratio is.
 

pdude81

Well-Known Member
It doesn't really matter what form it takes, but they need more space for people to move around and more things to do. Now if they created a 5th gate that was more of less a half day park, that would help and draw more people there than the net addition in capacity would allow for. At least for a while. I agree that building out more attractions in current parks would be a quicker way to solve capacity issues, but long term they might need a 5th park to swallow up demand. If they were willing to continue building out new rides at the same time as building a 5th gate that would make for long term profit growth, but it's hard to sell the board on a 10 year cost-savings plan.
 

pdude81

Well-Known Member
and they keep creating more problems. Going the wrong direction
MV5BYzA3MWE1YTAtZDUxNS00ZTNiLThkZmItYjMwZTI0NTllYWQ2XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyODQ1NTk5OQ@@._V1_.jpg
 

jpinkc

Well-Known Member
It doesn't really matter what form it takes, but they need more space for people to move around and more things to do. Now if they created a 5th gate that was more of less a half day park, that would help and draw more people there than the net addition in capacity would allow for. At least for a while. I agree that building out more attractions in current parks would be a quicker way to solve capacity issues, but long term they might need a 5th park to swallow up demand. If they were willing to continue building out new rides at the same time as building a 5th gate that would make for long term profit growth, but it's hard to sell the board on a 10 year cost-savings plan.
Oh I agree a 5th Gate Long Term makes sense, but the lack of expansion is the biggest problem now. The 20 years they did nothing to the parks is the problem. If Disney were to build a 5th gate it would take over a Decade at the way Disney works now. Look how long it took to build Pandora. Now Galaxies Edge took 3.5 years which is better than Pandora. But if you compare just building attractions Universal beats them every time. Disney for some reason cant seem to get building new attractions in a timely manner. I am not talking about refurbs or anything like. I mean from the ground up a new attraction. Hagrids which is a great ride at Uni, would have taken Disney twice as long and thats CRAZY at least to me.
 

Bairstow

Well-Known Member
Oh I agree a 5th Gate Long Term makes sense, but the lack of expansion is the biggest problem now. The 20 years they did nothing to the parks is the problem. If Disney were to build a 5th gate it would take over a Decade at the way Disney works now. Look how long it took to build Pandora. Now Galaxies Edge took 3.5 years which is better than Pandora. But if you compare just building attractions Universal beats them every time. Disney for some reason cant seem to get building new attractions in a timely manner. I am not talking about refurbs or anything like. I mean from the ground up a new attraction. Hagrids which is a great ride at Uni, would have taken Disney twice as long and thats CRAZY at least to me.
A lot of it is the difference between Disney having a dedicated in-house engineering company that, most of the time, is the best outfit of its kind in the world and Universal Creative being a relatively small and efficient office that largely relies on 3rd party contractors to do its work.

WDI is super expensive and super slow but what they produce is almost always top quality.

And sure, Hagrids might have taken Disney a lot longer to build, but assuming Disney would even build such a thing it probably a.) Wouldn't have any exposed track, b.) wouldn't be as horribly unreliable as it is and c.) Would have world-class animatronics instead of the nice, but second-rate ones it has now.

That's not necessarily a jab at Universal, but the two companies have very different ideas about what an acceptable finished attraction looks like.
 

dovetail65

Well-Known Member
What time of year in the before times?

It’s my understanding from reading reports from people currently in the parks that the heat index has been brutal this summer, plus they’ve had some persistent rain. Weather also causes people to leave the parks midday.

Also, memory is selective. We tend to remember the good (we walked on 7DMT at park closing!) and block out the bad (oh, right, we did wait 110 minutes for Soarin’. Forgot about that for a good reason).
Well humans actually tend to remember the bad not good its Psychology 101.
I get it, I like to think I remember the good over bad, but a test in college proved my thoughts on that wrong.

We studied a 50 dollar test where some people won 50, some lost 50 and some won and lost 50 Bucks. Overwhelmingly people remembered and felt the emotion of losing the 50 far more than the winning. There have been numerous test on this, I say just talk to my wife or look at reviews on line.

I could of forgotten milk once in 20 years, my wife remembers the date that happened 20 years ago.

Look at reviews online. When things go as they should most people do not comment. A few will comment when something extraordinary happens giving 5 stars, but if a transaction just ran as it should most times there is no review left at all. BUT, if one little thing goes wrong there are millions of negative reviews. Just like my wife not giving me kudos for going to the store for not forgetting things that as a rule I should do anyhow. These things as greaat as they are do not that warrant compliments in the first place. For the most part she doesn't say oh that day or this day you did right, but she sure remembers the exact day when things went wrong.

Bad memories for most people are just more memorable and numerous studies old and new point to it. That being said sometimes I think why do I remember the good and others remember the bad. My own brother remembers some things in our family history and certain days as bad things that I long forgot and my memories of even those same days I remember as great. Our shared B-day parties come to mind. I was blown away by his negativity and how he remembers the bad seemingly forgetting the good and me exactly the opposite. It made me feel a certain way, like did we even actually live in the same house and grow up together.

I often wonder if this plays a part on people's FP experience. They remember horrible long lines and do not think about the short lines they had with FP. I remember fantastic short FP's lines and never chose to stand in the long lines. The lines that were long I would just go the next day and then use my FP on them. I guess memory plays a role on how we all view Disney vacations possibly even more than our actual experiences in a way.
Oh I agree a 5th Gate Long Term makes sense, but the lack of expansion is the biggest problem now. The 20 years they did nothing to the parks is the problem. If Disney were to build a 5th gate it would take over a Decade at the way Disney works now. Look how long it took to build Pandora. Now Galaxies Edge took 3.5 years which is better than Pandora. But if you compare just building attractions Universal beats them every time. Disney for some reason cant seem to get building new attractions in a timely manner. I am not talking about refurbs or anything like. I mean from the ground up a new attraction. Hagrids which is a great ride at Uni, would have taken Disney twice as long and thats CRAZY at least to me.
Making new theme parks does not take Disney nearly as long as you imply. It takes Disney far longer to add an attraction to existing parks and one large reason is yearly budgets. Other reasons are the current economy during the renovations, on the fly decisions that are not based on getting things built as a priority, existing infrastructure and plans /permits to make changes verse an overall plan and separate budget to start and complete a new theme park.

In short because certain attractions took 3 years or more to build has no bearing at all on how long a brand new theme park from scratch would take. A brand new theme park with a plan wouldn't take but 3 years from breaking ground to opening day.


MK - 1.5 years By the time the Magic Kingdom opened on October 1, 1971, more than 9,000 construction workers had labored for 18 months to build the park, which cost approximately $400 million to create.

EPCOT - 2.2 years- More than 10,000 construction workers labored for 26 months to create the 300-acre, $1.4 billion park in time for the grand opening on October 1, 1982; at the time, EPCOT was the largest commercial construction project on earth.

DHS - Started 1987 opened May 1 1989 - aprox 22 months and1 billion dollars.

AK - Construction crews worked on the Animal Kingdom for three years, opening the 500-acre, $800 million park on April 22, 1998.
 
Last edited:

Hawg G

Well-Known Member
A lot of it is the difference between Disney having a dedicated in-house engineering company that, most of the time, is the best outfit of its kind in the world and Universal Creative being a relatively small and efficient office that largely relies on 3rd party contractors to do its work.

WDI is super expensive and super slow but what they produce is almost always top quality.

And sure, Hagrids might have taken Disney a lot longer to build, but assuming Disney would even build such a thing it probably a.) Wouldn't have any exposed track, b.) wouldn't be as horribly unreliable as it is and c.) Would have world-class animatronics instead of the nice, but second-rate ones it has now.

That's not necessarily a jab at Universal, but the two companies have very different ideas about what an acceptable finished attraction looks like.

Best outfit in the world at doing what, exactly? Adding no new ride capacity for 20 years? Building rides like Navi, Smugglers Run, And Tron?

Imagineering’s best “imaginee” in most people’s eyes is a guy who led one of the best creative movie directors ever in buying a new, third party ride system. Using an existing iP to theme a small area. Then he built a hotel.

Before RotR, Disney hadn’t created a ride from the ground up that was truly amazing since Indy. While Universal Installed a string of great E tickets.
 

nickys

Premium Member
https:///2021/07/stand-by-pass-crow...3AVb1ryxCyQU7AnQXHjH7552BH2T9u07hh97U31tegunw

Goodness help us if they implement a system like Disneyland Paris. It sounds like you have to pay to use FastPass which has essentially become the normal line. And then you get standby pass, which sounds similar to what the free paper fast passes used to be way back when. So you either pay to stand in line, or get a free fast pass return LMAO 🤣. Not quite sure what they were thinking with that one. Sounds like the system is causing larger backups and crowds at the entrance of the rides.
That report is disingenuous to say the least.

First of though, I think you might have misunderstood. You can pay for an FP and go through the FP line. No waiting required. The standby return is switched on when the standby line reaches 30 minutes. You then get a time to return to join the standby line. So once you return you should be waiting no more than 30 minutes, and in the meantime you could be riding anything else in the park instead of standing in line for an hour or more.

Only one ride switched on standby pass all day, which means the wait times for other rides were reasonable (I believe 30 minutes was the threshold used). Crush was the only ride that needed to use it. That’s pretty good in itself IMO.

The crowds were caused by the need to scan the QR code for everyone before they could get into the standby line. You could probably have predicted the process would have teething problems. Plus of course, some people will join a line just because it’s there - some of those people will almost certainly have not understood what was going on, just like people try and go through the FP line at WDW even if they don’t have one or it isn’t time yet.

To be honest, having seen how this worked, I’m thinking a winter break to DLP would be perfect. With that kind of maximum wait times, even for Big Thunder or Phantom Manor, it would be possible to ride everything in a day.

All that said however, it doesn’t mean this would work well at WDW. If the threshold for standby return is 30 minutes, almost everything would need it. So lines will be longer, meaning more people would consider buying FPs, leading to longer standby waits and so on.
 

matt9112

Well-Known Member
They're testing a virtual queue on Hagrids in IoA. I'm not impressed by the reports I'm seeing. Rather than shopping and eating, people are hanging out in the area, camping out in any available spot waiting for their turn to come up.

I don't think Disney or Universal has enough extra space (in shops, restaurants or even just in general) for very many attractions to go virtual.

This is a good point plus to an extent people will only spend so much....most huests have some kind of budget or limit. So even if your entire park was a giant store your only going to get x. Whole diminishment of returns thing. Plus your legitimately trying to change how many years of human behavior and expectations?
 

matt9112

Well-Known Member
That report is disingenuous to say the least.

First of though, I think you might have misunderstood. You can pay for an FP and go through the FP line. No waiting required. The standby return is switched on when the standby line reaches 30 minutes. You then get a time to return to join the standby line. So once you return you should be waiting no more than 30 minutes, and in the meantime you could be riding anything else in the park instead of standing in line for an hour or more.

Only one ride switched on standby pass all day, which means the wait times for other rides were reasonable (I believe 30 minutes was the threshold used). Crush was the only ride that needed to use it. That’s pretty good in itself IMO.

The crowds were caused by the need to scan the QR code for everyone before they could get into the standby line. You could probably have predicted the process would have teething problems. Plus of course, some people will join a line just because it’s there - some of those people will almost certainly have not understood what was going on, just like people try and go through the FP line at WDW even if they don’t have one or it isn’t time yet.

To be honest, having seen how this worked, I’m thinking a winter break to DLP would be perfect. With that kind of maximum wait times, even for Big Thunder or Phantom Manor, it would be possible to ride everything in a day.

All that said however, it doesn’t mean this would work well at WDW. If the threshold for standby return is 30 minutes, almost everything would need it. So lines will be longer, meaning more people would consider buying FPs, leading to longer standby waits and so on.

Its almost like having to scan everyones phone is sort of like scanning entrance tickets. Your relying WAY TO MUCH on guests to make this system work. This exact system but with little paper print puts for example would not have this issue...like little square things with a return time on them....oh wait....wierd i seem to remember that somewhere.
 

nickys

Premium Member
Its almost like having to scan everyones phone is sort of like scanning entrance tickets. Your relying WAY TO MUCH on guests to make this system work. This exact system but with little paper print puts for example would not have this issue...like little square things with a return time on them....oh wait....wierd i seem to remember that somewhere.
In my experience with venues here year round is that scanning QR codes can be difficult, especially if there are wifi issues of course. Numerous times I’ve had staff resorting to simply checking the email itself rather than scanning!

They need to try and work out the kinks for sure. But overall I was pleasantly surprised that only Crush needed the standby return pass witched on. I would have expected Big Thunder, Phantom Manor and others to need it too. I’ve downloaded the app so I can check what happens over the next few weeks.

But that doesn’t mean for a single minute I think the same system will work as well at WDW.
 

mysto

Well-Known Member
Magic bands can be scanned really quickly. No swiping up the correct app and screen required.

I guess Disney had a good solution to this and decided to do away with it. Paris is probably mostly day guests so it would be hard to get the bands on wrists, but in Florida free bands with the room worked really well.

Offering bands with replaceable batteries would expand adoption, even in Paris, and improve throughput.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom