FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[CaptainAmerica]

FP+ doesn't add capacity, though. It's just going to take those people who have them and redistribute them elsewhere in the park. Into other queues, etc. It will also bring standby lines to a crawl. One of the big FP+ disappointments was they had assumed, erroneously, people would use the downtime to shop and eat but that didn't happen. They just get into other queues.

This is not correct. It's based on a fundamental misunderstanding of guest behavior.

FP+ does increase effective operating capacity at less popular attractions, which increases the effective operating capacity of the park overall. When it comes to popular attractions, you're correct. Every single train is going to be full at Big Thunder Mountain from park open until park close. The "magic" of FastPass+ is that it steers people towards less popular attractions that would not otherwise operate at full capacity.

Spaceship Earth has a theoretical capacity of 2,400 guests per hour, but if they're sending up half of their vehicles empty before 11am and after 7pm, they're not delivering on those 2,400 guests per hour. FP+ helps keep that number as close to 2,400 throughout the operating day as possible, pulling people out of the standby lines for those more popular attractions.

tl;dr - FastPass doesn't increase theoretical capacity, but it increases effective capacity by filling vehicles on attractions that would run partially empty in a standby-only environment.

The other issue, as has been mentioned here and elsewhere, is the reservations system is still in tact for the foreseeable future. More capacity does not mean it's hog wild back to February 2020. The FP+ system was decimated to create the park reservation system and would require a substantial amount of time + labor to rebuild, unless they got rid of Park Passes, which is not on the horizon.

The Park Reservation system is only useful to Disney in a capacity-restricted context.

When capacity limits are lifted and the parks are no longer "selling out" every day, the guests will have no incentive whatsoever to commit to a Park Pass. They'll just wait until same-day and make their reservations then. This is absolutely useless to Disney from an operational data perspective.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Other parks do it. Charge $200 a person per day for FP with no scheduling involved. Most won't go for it and those that do will have low waits. Win win.

"Most parks" are one-and-done, not places people are staying for an entire week to go to four different parks back-to-back-to-back.

The market willing to pay $7,000 for a family of 5 for a week is effectively zero. The people who can afford that are already doing VIP tours.

 

[jinx8402]

How is this a win-win? It's a win for those wealthy enough to afford the extra $200 and a lose for those that aren't.

Especially when the cost of a Disney ticket is already higher than ever other park. For a family of 4, a 4 day ticket is probably around $500 more at Disney vs Universal. Adding $800 a day is absurd.

 

[mikejs78]

tl;dr - FastPass doesn't increase theoretical capacity, but it increases effective capacity by filling vehicles on attractions that would run partially empty in a standby-only environment.

It also manages the queue length throughout the day at E tickets. Without FP you could have 120 min waits from 1-3 and only 75 minute waits from 9-1 and 3-9. FP+ regularizes that by moving people who may otherwise wait in line at 1-3 to less in demand times (as well as steering them to other attractions. ). So instead you end up with a more consistent 85-95 minute standby time throughout the day.

 

[marni1971]

FP+ does increase effective operating capacity at less popular attractions..

Which is what it was designed to do in lieu of building new. What it also does is reduces operational efficiency at the more popular attractions (not my words, park ops words)

 

[CosmicRays]

Its gotta go to a paid model- I would be shocked if Disney decided to bring it back at the free model. I also wonder if they are getting ready to announce something fastpass related to have ready to mitigate the crowds at the 50th.

 

[FantasiaMickey2000]

I never experienced 60 to 90 minutes waits for any ride before FP. Even Space Mountain, which was the run to attraction of the era, was not that long a wait. Unless there was a breakdown, 45 minutes tops and that was unusual. I'd say 30 minutes was about average. People are looking at wait times in standby based on the current times with FP. I have heard very little complaining since the FP has been withheld recently. If you saw a line that extended past the reasonable time you just went past it and came back later. It is not as foreboding as it has been made out to be. But, I guess we are operating on full on fear mode all over these days so I guess I can understand why there is the concern. It's just that this is a fun and popular theme park. No matter how many occasional short FP lines you get, it will catch you somewhere along the line because capacity remains the same. Just so many per hour. What you skip in one will be staring you in the face on the next one.

I don’t think this is an apples to apples comparison. Given how much attendance has increased since the introduction of fastpasses and Disney cutting staffing and park hours without adding more attractions, you were going to see increased waits anyway. Fastpass+ isn’t the cause there.

 

[M:SpilotISTC12]

Get rid of fastpass +. Bring back the paper tickets. It provided spontanity and lacked the whole pre-planning that I can't stand. Having to be on the phone all the time is annoying.

 

[flynnibus]

tl;dr - FastPass doesn't increase theoretical capacity, but it increases effective capacity by filling vehicles on attractions that would run partially empty in a standby-only environment.

you keep using that word... it does not mean what you think it means.

what you describe is not capacity but - utilization or guest count.

capacity does not change based on how many are actually using it... “effective capacity” would be what they can practically execute- not what is being used

 

[MisterPenguin]

FP+ can't do anything about a ride for which there are more people wanting to ride it that exceeds it's capacity.

If a ride can handle 1,000 people per hour, then in a 10 hour day, it can handle only 10,000 people.

So what happens when 15,000 people want to ride it in a day? With no FP, that's 5,000 people in a queue that will never get to ride it. Of course, when people see a three hour wait, they walk away (usually), and the line doesn't get that long.

And that's with no FP+ involved at all. We saw that when Falcon opened with no FP, it still got hours-long queues, and wait times longer than the other E-Tickets in HS.

FP+ has an effect when rides haven't reached their tipping point for good and for bad (depending who gets access to the FP).

FP+ does nothing when your park attendance is over it's capacity tipping point -- all queues are grotesquely long, including TTA. FP+ is not to blame in that scenario.

 

[mikejs78]

Get rid of fastpass +. Bring back the paper tickets. It provided spontanity and lacked the whole pre-planning that I can't stand. Having to be on the phone all the time is annoying.

How about the old system, just with smartphones instead? I.e. MaxPass. I really don't relish running across the park to grab FPs anymore.

 

[mikejs78]

FP+ can't do anything about a ride for which there are more people wanting to ride it that exceeds it's capacity.

If a ride can handle 1,000 people per hour, then in a 10 hour day, it can handle only 10,000 people.

So what happens when 15,000 people want to ride it in a day? With no FP, that's 5,000 people in a queue that will never get to ride it. Of course, when people see a three hour wait, they walk away (usually), and the line doesn't get that long.

And that's with no FP+ involved at all. We saw that when Falcon opened with no FP, it still got hours-long queues, and wait times longer than the other E-Tickets in HS.

FP+ has an effect when rides haven't reached their tipping point for good and for bad (depending who gets access to the FP).

FP+ does nothing when your park attendance is over it's capacity tipping point -- all queues are grotesquely long, including TTA. FP+ is not to blame in that scenario.

It does though, to borrow a pandemic term, flatten the curve of wait times throughout the day at the big e tickets.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

you keep using that word... it does not mean what you think it means.

what you describe is not capacity but - utilization or guest count.

capacity does not change based on how many are actually using it... “effective capacity” would be what they can practically execute- not what is being used

I'm referring to park capacity, not attraction capacity. When you fill every boat, you can squeeze more clicks through the gate.

 

[wdwfan4ver]

Honest opinions. What do you feel the reaction would be if Disney copied Universals completely?

Deluxe hotels grant you unlimited fast passes per day.
Then for the rest, you had the option to say increase your ticket per day by 50 bucks to get 1 fast pass per ride. Or 85 per day to get unlimited.

You are not asking this properly for WDW. WDW and Universal can't be compared for how they get guests to the parks. Universal does not own timeshare buildings unlike Disney does for WDW. Disney has been adding DVC for years and is big businesses. Out of anything, unlimited fast passes should be going to DVC members instead Deluxe hotels. Disney does not give DVC members extras like this and I don't them starting now.

If this happened, I think non DVC members will be ticked off. I do not think the question is realistic due to the nature of Disney Management anyway with them not being fans of free perks. Disney would be looking at how much money they be losing to DVC members.

 

[M:SpilotISTC12]

How about the old system, just with smartphones instead? I.e. MaxPass. I really don't relish running across the park to grab FPs anymore.

Honestly that's why I actually love Maxpass. It gives you the option. And if you do purchase it you get photos as well. If they brought maxpass to wdw I'd be ok with it. One trip I'd get it and go to every photog in the park. The next trip I wouldn't and go paper route. This would be the only paid fastpass plan I'd be ok with.

 

[flynnibus]

I'm referring to park capacity, not attraction capacity. When you fill every boat, you can squeeze more clicks through the gate.

your high level notion is not wrong - but your articulation of it is.

you said

FP+ does increase effective operating capacity at less popular attractions

which is mumbo jumbo.

it is accurate to say you increase the effective capacity of the park because they are in effect improving their overall capacity utilization by putting under utilized capacity to work by marketing attractions in other ways and directing guests to them. But low lines do that too... fp reservations just a little more push.

 

[M:SpilotISTC12]

You are not asking this properly for WDW. WDW and Universal can't be compared for how they get guests to the parks. Universal does not own timeshare buildings unlike Disney does for WDW. Disney has been adding DVC for years and is big businesses. Out of anything, unlimited fast passes should be going to DVC members instead Deluxe hotels. Disney does not give DVC members extras like this and I don't them starting now.

If this happened, I think non DVC members will be ticked off. I do not think the question is realistic due to the nature of Disney Management anyway with them not being fans of free perks. Disney would be looking at how much money they be loosing to DVC members.

As much as I agree with you. It would never happen. Disney is doing everything they can to remove perks from DVC not give them. But you're 100% right.

 

[monothingie]

The Park Reservation system is only useful to Disney in a capacity-restricted context.

Can you imagine a tool that would basically let Disney know how many people are going to visit their park each day and give them a sure fire way to measure future demand so that they can adjust variables like staffing and hours to compensate for this demand?

park pass is here to stay long after the pandemic is gone.

 

[UNCgolf]

Can you imagine a tool that would basically let Disney know how many people are going to visit their park each day and give them a sure fire way to measure future demand so that they can adjust variables like staffing and hours to compensate for this demand?

park pass is here to stay long after the pandemic is gone.

He makes a good point, though.

If the parks aren't actually reaching daily capacity (they normally don't) and thus there are reservations available for all parks almost every day, people don't really have an incentive to book one early. If there are thousands of people only making a selection the day before or day of, that doesn't give Disney especially useful information.

I suppose Disney could require someone to book park reservations when they buy their ticket, but unless they made those selections permanently locked (which would cause a bunch of other headaches) it still wouldn't be that helpful when people could just change them later on.

The other option I see would be to lower the daily capacity for every park so that they are getting fully booked, but that would be giving up money in multiple ways and I can't imagine Disney doing that.

 

[homerdance]

FP+ showed how terribly under built the three other parks were, and not all things at Disney world need a FP/queue.

Going to Disney with full crowds and no FP off any sort will suck, not looking forward to it.