FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[lightningtap347]

You're right. I have never in my life seen 80 FP guests pushed in front of 20 standby guests. I have been in WDW when a ride reopened after a storm. I got in the FP line for Everest and watched as they let 30 FP to 10 standby through and in those rare circumstances, yes, the FP did slow the standby line. But yeah, keep telling us about the 80-20 thing. I am dropping this argument because FP haters will refuse to see reality. I will keep looking for other information about what they are bringing out next. Whatever it is I am sure it will cause more great gnashing of teeth and wails of despair from the standby crowd. Good day to you.

Sir, I'm not a FP hater, I worked the damn thing! You continually seem to either have no idea about what's going on in operations of these attractions, or are dismissing the multiple people who have worked these attractions for some reason?

FP absolutely can change the wait on the standby line.

 

[HauntedPirate]

I will repeat, you are incorrect. I worked ops. FP totally changes line movement.

No no, you’re a FP hater and that’s the only response you’ll get from someone entrenched in a bad position.

“FP didn’t affect the standby line”…

 

[G00fyDad]

I will repeat, you are incorrect. I worked ops. FP totally changes line movement.

Sure.

 

[G00fyDad]

Sir, I'm not a FP hater, I worked the damn thing! You continually seem to either have no idea about what's going on in operations of these attractions, or are dismissing the multiple people who have worked these attractions for some reason?

FP absolutely can change the wait on the standby line.

I said good day.

 

[flynnibus]

You guys are arguing with a guy who doesn't understand the simple ideas of ratios and percentages. Just ignore him and move on.

 

[LittleBuford]

Sure.

I’m as pro-FP+ as they come, but I really don’t get where you’re coming from here. Of course FP changes the movement of the standby line—how could it not? Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean it makes the overall standby waits significantly longer (I’ve seen no evidence to convince me of that), but there’s no way around the fact that a standby line moves more intermittently if it is accompanied by a FP line.

 

[castlecake2.0]

Sure.

Sure what?

 

[castlecake2.0]

I’m as pro-FP+ as they come, but I really don’t get where you’re coming from here. Of course FP changes the movement of the standby line—how could it not? Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean it makes the overall standby waits significantly longer (I’ve seen no evidence to convince me of that), but there’s no way around the fact that a standby line moves more intermittently if it is accompanied by a FP line.

Correct, there’s a lot of factors involved as to whether it significantly makes the standby wait longer or not, but there is no denying that if two lines have to merge at some point there’s going to be stop and go traffic.

 

[G00fyDad]

You guys are arguing with a guy who doesn't understand the simple ideas of ratios and percentages. Just ignore him and move on.

Please do. I understand them just fine. People are bending them to fit their fantasy. But yeah, please ignore me and move on. I'll wave at you as I pass you in the (whatever FP becomes) line since it apparently makes your 15 minute wait into 4 hours or more.

 

[Touchdown]

It’s so pathetic that this country has devolved to the point where we consider math to be an acceptable debate topic, as if math results are an opinion as opposed to facts. It’s why we are in the mess where in. I’ll just leave this here
X=ride capacity per hour
F=Fastpass line throughput per hour
S=Standby line thoughput per hour

No matter what, this equation does not change:

X=F+S

To increase F you must decrease S, as Mr Incredible would say math is math.

 

[lightningtap347]

I am amazed the lengths and effort this user has put in to remain straight up wrong.

Changing your entire online person to make a point to show everyone how wrong you are on such a simple concept is either impressive trolling or even more impressive stupidity.

Regardless... Paid Fastpasses when?

 

[G00fyDad]

Will Disney World Start Charging for FastPass? | The Motley Fool

Disneyland Paris starts charging for access to expedited FastPass queues. Don't be surprised if Disney World in Florida is next.

www.fool.com

I would prefer that they continue giving resort guests some amount of free ones in advance but then closing new FP's on the "day of" and charge guests for the privilege of getting a FP on the same day they visit the parks. They'd still make some revenue by selling FP and the hotels will stay full from guests that want the free ones.

 

[G00fyDad]

I am amazed the lengths and effort this user has put in to remain straight up wrong.

Changing your entire online person to make a point to show everyone how wrong you are on such a simple concept is either impressive trolling or even more impressive stupidity.

Regardless... Paid Fastpasses when?

Whatever. If you are so deluded that you think the few FP users coming through a line makes your standby wait extremely long then there is nothing I can do to help you with that. No one can. You are completely convinced that the few FP users have somehow increased your wait by 20, 30, 40, 50, even 60 minutes and nothing anyone says will change your mind. I am done discussing wait times. I will just hope that you have a decent time at WDW as I will and leave you to it.

 

[lightningtap347]

Whatever. If you are so deluded that you think the few FP users coming through a line makes your standby wait extremely long then there is nothing I can do to help you with that. No one can. You are completely convinced that the few FP users have somehow increased your wait by 20, 30, 40, 50, even 60 minutes and nothing anyone says will change your mind. I am done discussing wait times. I will just hope that you have a decent time at WDW as I will and leave you to it.

I thought you said good day?

 

[acup313]

It’s so pathetic that this country has devolved to the point where we consider math to be an acceptable debate topic, as if math results are an opinion as opposed to facts. It’s why we are in the mess where in. I’ll just leave this here
X=ride capacity per hour
F=Fastpass line throughput per hour
S=Standby line thoughput per hour

No matter what, this equation does not change:

X=F+S

To increase F you must decrease S, as Mr Incredible would say math is math.

But when we are at capacity the people getting in the F line came from the S line so overall wait times didn’t change. Also, at a certain point if waits get too long people will stop getting in the standby line. So if the equilibrium max wait time for Pooh is 60 minutes, the standby wait time will be 60 minutes regardless of whether fast passes are used or not.
There are 2 ways that fastpasses could increase standby waits. The first is that with fast passes people would be willing to wait longer in standby lines. I don’t think this is likely. The second is that without fastpasses rides weren’t hitting that maximum equilibrium. This one is definitely possible for the smaller rides.

 

[Touchdown]

But when we are at capacity the people getting in the F line came from the S line so overall wait times didn’t change. Also, at a certain point if waits get too long people will stop getting in the standby line. So if the equilibrium max wait time for Pooh is 60 minutes, the standby wait time will be 60 minutes regardless of whether fast passes are used or not.
There are 2 ways that fastpasses could increase standby waits. The first is that with fast passes people would be willing to wait longer in standby lines. I don’t think this is likely. The second is that without fastpasses rides weren’t hitting that maximum equilibrium. This one is definitely possible for the smaller rides.

That fails to account for people like me, and most people on this board. I’m never going to wait more then an hour for something, unless it’s the end of the night and that wait will occur after closing. I’ll just rope drop otherwise. Yet with Fastpass I was regularly riding headliners during peak hours, thus I added to the line, increasing standby lines.

 

[pdude81]

It’s so pathetic that this country has devolved to the point where we consider math to be an acceptable debate topic, as if math results are an opinion as opposed to facts. It’s why we are in the mess where in. I’ll just leave this here
X=ride capacity per hour
F=Fastpass line throughput per hour
S=Standby line thoughput per hour

No matter what, this equation does not change:

X=F+S

To increase F you must decrease S, as Mr Incredible would say math is math.

I agree for with this premise the most part, and if X is constant that makes things easier. Sometimes X is variable based on staffing, dispatch, or maintenance, and that makes comparisons ugly.

But I think right now we're looking at two completely different things and I don't even know why we bother fighting and comparing them.

To use your notation, we'll have:

X = F + GO + C33 + RS + GR + S which is the before times. Fastpass, Golden Oak, Club 33, Rider Swap, Guest Recovery, and standby.

right now we have:

X = GO + C33 + RS + GR + S.

Many of these are variable but if you were to pretend they were the same in both comparisons, you can subtract from both sides and then you are still comparing two disparate feeder systems.

It is basic math that fastpass feeder line prioritization would slow the standby feeder line, but I never get why we even make that comparison. There are other groups that access via a different ride mechanism that affect the standy waits as well, and they always will. To me the real question is, what is the effect on overall wait times per guest due to fastpass. They will wait longer on each line, but will they wait longer overall?

 

[acup313]

That fails to account for people like me, and most people on this board. I’m never going to wait more then an hour for something, unless it’s the end of the night and that wait will occur after closing. I’ll just rope drop otherwise. Yet with Fastpass I was regularly riding headliners during peak hours, thus I added to the line, increasing standby lines.

But if most people are like you and won’t ride anything with an hour long wait, if people can’t find fastpasses it’s impossible for waits to get longer than an hour. I am not saying that fastpasses have no effect on waits, but the math is more complicated than that simple equation and the effect is probably not as large as some people think.

 

[Touchdown]

But if most people are like you and won’t ride anything with an hour long wait, if people can’t find fastpasses it’s impossible for waits to get longer than an hour. I am not saying that fastpasses have no effect on waits, but the math is more complicated than that simple equation and the effect is probably not as large as some people think.

Everyone has their limits, mine just happens to be 1 hour at least currently. If lines are long you’ll find me at shows, shorter waits or if all else fails back in my hotel room. The first and last 3 hours of the day is when I ride the most attractions.

 

[flynnibus]

But when we are at capacity the people getting in the F line came from the S line so overall wait times didn’t change. Also, at a certain point if waits get too long people will stop getting in the standby line. So if the equilibrium max wait time for Pooh is 60 minutes, the standby wait time will be 60 minutes regardless of whether fast passes are used or not.
There are 2 ways that fastpasses could increase standby waits. The first is that with fast passes people would be willing to wait longer in standby lines. I don’t think this is likely. The second is that without fastpasses rides weren’t hitting that maximum equilibrium. This one is definitely possible for the smaller rides.

You're discussing 'waits' where the post you quoted was pointing out the static nature of capacity.

What you are talking about here can be described as 'wait tolerance' - aka when will someone be willing to get into the standby line or not based on the expected wait. In your description "equilibrium" is simply when the standby wait reaches the wait tolerance of the audience; resulting in people deferring from getting in line. This is more like 'saturation' then equilibrium... the standby line won't get bigger as long as the wait tolerance is strictly followed. "equilibrium" would be any point where the demand for the attraction is equal to the attraction's throughput... so waits are not increasing. Here, we are talking about waits not increasing due to the guest opt'ing out due to wait tolerance being exceeded.

Wait Tolerance is a huge factor in where standby waits stabilize. But it doesn't change the fundamental fact that when two queues share the same capacity - you can not avoid one impacting the other. The only way one doesn't impact the other is if one is empty.

The fundamental gap people have in this is people always want to look at only THEIR experience as a net... as to considering how others maybe impacted.

People are able to enjoy lower waits on attractions with Fastpass+ because it does what it was was supposed to do... push people to under utilized rides.