FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[Chi84]

You mean like Fastpass+?

I have no problem at all with FastPass+ Obviously not everyone’s experience.

 

[fgmnt]

That is why reservations are likely here to stay. I keep hearing per guest spending is up when parks are less crowded. Profits have to have a sweet spot between cramming the parks full (higher overhead/less per guest spending) and too few to ensure growth.

Like trying to adjust a fine watch.

If you're talking about park pass reservations when you say reservations, I can kinda see it, but I don't see what the carrot is to reserve your spot early if you don't have some complementing system like FP+, and then we're practically back at square one. The most regressive thing I could see being implemented is having surge pricing on tickets and rolling oppressive blackouts (because I don't think APs are going to go away, just get really hammered at on restrictions at all of the less insane price levels). The darkest timeline park pass system looks like this:

- If you are on property or a SuperMax Platinum Pass Chapekvision AP Holder, you don't need to reserve at all. On-property guest perk is that you lock in the lowest possible tiered pricing on the given dates of your stay.
- If you are off property and buying a <10 day ticket, you are subjected to surge pricing for the 10 days you reserve. Let's say there are 6 tiers of prices (I think right now there are almost that many). January 2nd starts at tier 1 and December 24 starts at tier 5. Both of those days can jump up to tier 6 at any moment in time (though obviously a lot harder to do that on January 2 than December 24) through an easily obfuscated and black box way.
- If you are buying a local resident AP, with exceptions like the Water Park Pass and Epcot only options that may or may not stay, your resident "annual pass" gives you so many attendance points you can use, plus there are blackout dates. You might be able to buy attendance points if you're near the end of your annual pool, but you better reserve early for that Saturday in April or you'll wind up spending 4 points instead of 2.

It's hard to see Disney wanting to come up with a carrot when the stick seems so much more lucrative.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Interesting AP grumblings...that would throw a “log” on the fastpass fire

 

[Goofyernmost]

agreed...but if I had a nickel for every person that post “they’re trying to reduce attendance to improve the expedience....they told us so”



they only caveat is that they want to do it with the same or less labor outlay. They always seem to make that “ok” somehow...however.

You can pay a lot of near minimum wage part timers with just a few ticket sales. To me, yes, I see that some reduction in personel is cost saving but doing it by cutting back on attendance would cause the accounting people to have some severe strokes. Some people that had bad experiences or are bored with what they are offering might decide not to go anymore, but if those numbers become countable, they will reverse the process.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You can pay a lot of near minimum wage part timers with just a few ticket sales. To me, yes, I see that some reduction in personel is cost saving but doing it by cutting back on attendance would cause the accounting people to have some severe strokes. Some people that had bad experiences or are bored with what they are offering might decide not to go anymore, but if those numbers become countable, they will reverse the process.

101%
I honestly can’t believe that blatantly business PR misdirection of “they’re trying to lower attendance” got play for a nanosecond.

aren’t the “diehards” special?
It really shouldn’t be that easy for any company to lie and get away with it. It makes Enron look “transparent”

 

[jt04]

Guest spending is an important source of revenue, but they aren't about to sacrafice the $100. per day per person ticket price to sell a T-shirt no matter what the margin is. They will never try and decrease the attendance numbers. There is just to much money involved. If they could run every single day at maximum safe attendance, that is what they will do. And there is a breaking point someplace. There always is!

APs pay nowhere near $100 per day which I imagine is the biggest argument against their return within the company. See DL.

I don't think we can quantify the effect on the bottom line from knowing exactly how many guests will be in the park on a day to day basis. Especially with the impending increases in labor costs and inflationary pressures. Even our best magical experts are on the outside looking in.

Let's see if they keep the reservation system after 2022.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

APs pay nowhere near $100 per day which I imagine is the biggest argument against their return within the company. See DL.

I don't think we can quantify the effect on the bottom line from knowing exactly how many guests will be in the park on a day to day basis. Especially with the impending increases in labor costs and inflationary pressures. Even our best magical experts are on the outside looking in.

Let's see if they keep the reservation system after 2022.

It certainly sounds like AP sales will return at some point this summer based on the e-mail regarding MagicBands that went out to current Passholders yesterday. Regarding MagicMobile, the e-mail stated, "As more Passholders continue to discover this new option, we will no longer be offering complimentary MagicBands with Annual Pass purchases and renewals made August 16, 2021 and beyond."

 

[jt04]

It certainly sounds like AP sales will return at some point this summer based on the e-mail regarding MagicBands that went out to current Passholders yesterday. Regarding MagicMobile, the e-mail stated, "As more Passholders continue to discover this new option, we will no longer be offering complimentary MagicBands with Annual Pass purchases and renewals made August 16, 2021 and beyond."

I'm optimistic too though not sure if prices will change substantially. But still sort of a separate issue from the reservation system. Although clearly they would have a huge impact. Most fascinating year as it pertains to park ops yet.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It certainly sounds like AP sales will return at some point this summer based on the e-mail regarding MagicBands that went out to current Passholders yesterday. Regarding MagicMobile, the e-mail stated, "As more Passholders continue to discover this new option, we will no longer be offering complimentary MagicBands with Annual Pass purchases and renewals made August 16, 2021 and beyond."

Yeah...this is where people misinterpret Disney and fail to go with the obvious

go with the obvious...there’s a date there and an assumed transition period.

some Saturday night between now and 8/16...all of a sudden passes will be for sale on the site.

a good guess is around the mass recall of 20 year old indentured servants and other mass recalls of hourlies in the next month.

 

[DryerLintFan]

Yeah...this is where people misinterpret Disney and fail to go with the obvious

go with the obvious...there’s a date there and an assumed transition period.

some Saturday night between now and 8/16...all of a sudden passes will be for sale on the site.

a good guess is around the mass recall of 20 year old indentured servants and other mass recalls of hourlies in the next month.

I think I'm more interested in knowing if the APs will be comparable to hope they have been since I've started going. The perks and any potential black out days, especially

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think I'm more interested in knowing if the APs will be comparable to hope they have been since I've started going. The perks and any potential black out days, especially

I thought they’d be completely different...but the hinted “speed” they’re returning makes me think they may want to play a little PR and ride it out for one more year.

angles:
1. Fill the parks after the dragon has been slayed...you know - “for the 50th”? - and slappy stakes his claim.
2. They’ll be “full price” with no real breaks...which means it softens the blow next year for whatever increases the new passes will 100% have
3. Perhaps they don’t see that much traffic coming at this point in the CRS numbers? Not worried about on-property...but definitely off.
4. Once they’re back to 50,000 employees...it’s “go time”. Time to pack it in.
5. Part of getting more people in could be the development of whatever successor to fastpass+ they’ve decided on? It could be a “lab rat” scenario. They have certainly done that before (the rats are the last to know)

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I thought they’d be completely different...but the hinted “speed” they’re returning makes me think they may want to play a little PR and ride it out for one more year.

angles:
1. Fill the parks after the dragon has been slayed...you know - “for the 50th”? - and slappy stakes his claim.
2. They’ll be “full price” with no real breaks...which means it softens the blow next year for whatever increases the new passes will 100% have
3. Perhaps they don’t see that much traffic coming at this point in the CRS numbers? Not worried about on-property...but definitely off.
4. Once they’re back to 50,000 employees...it’s “go time”. Time to pack it in.
5. Part of getting more people in could be the development of whatever successor to fastpass+ they’ve decided on? It could be a “lab rat” scenario. They have certainly done that before (the rats are the last to know)

I'm optimistic that the WDW APs will stay the same. They had a perfect opportunity to pause and reset the AP program like they did in CA, but they instead chose to continue allowing renewals even while new sales were paused. Now it seems line they’re going to start new sales up again and that makes it messier to reboot the program when they could have just issued partial refunds for the unused portion of existing passes (rather than giving us the choice of a refund or an extension).

One thing that I think differentiates the WDW AP from the DL AP is that a good percentage of WDW APs are non-FL residents (vs. mostly locals in CA), which means they are more likely to either:

A. Book multiple stays per year to make the AP work, or
B. Book longer stays to make the AP work, or
C. Both A and B.

Also, there is more direct competition located closer to WDW than there is for DL. Universal is about an hour away from DL, whereas there's only 15 minutes or so between WDW and Universal and that's just 1 of multiple parks/resorts in the area. Angering vacationing passholders could lead to more of them deciding to give the competition's AP a shot instead. Not that I think WDW is above trying to maximize revenue, but I think they have a decent idea of what things will cause grumbling but no significant loss of customers vs. what will push people to their competitors.

 

[Jedijax719]

Is there any possibility that the reason they are dissolving the old FP+ system is to prolong visits? With FP+, you can do 10 rides a day in a park. Without it, that is not possible and depending on the time of year, you might only be able to do 5.

If they go with the Max Pass model, that won't be so bad. However, I cannot find information on whether the $15 per ticket/per day is for ONE ride or as many as you can reserve using the system. Could someone please answer that?

 

[jinx8402]

Is there any possibility that the reason they are dissolving the old FP+ system is to prolong visits? With FP+, you can do 10 rides a day in a park. Without it, that is not possible and depending on the time of year, you might only be able to do 5.

If they go with the Max Pass model, that won't be so bad. However, I cannot find information on whether the $15 per ticket/per day is for ONE ride or as many as you can reserve using the system. Could someone please answer that?

Keep in mind, there was a major advantage to having long on-site stays with FP+. With the 14 day rolling window for onsite guests, you could get pretty much any FP you wanted past day 6 or 7. I think getting rid of that advantage will likely reduce people taking longer trips. I know last year, I was going to take a 10 day trip just for that reason, but in the future where that doesn't matter? I'll likely do a quick 5 day trip instead.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Is there any possibility that the reason they are dissolving the old FP+ system is to prolong visits? With FP+, you can do 10 rides a day in a park. Without it, that is not possible and depending on the time of year, you might only be able to do 5.

If they go with the Max Pass model, that won't be so bad. However, I cannot find information on whether the $15 per ticket/per day is for ONE ride or as many as you can reserve using the system. Could someone please answer that?

No one knows how the new system is going to function or what pricing will be yet.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm optimistic that the WDW APs will stay the same. They had a perfect opportunity to pause and reset the AP program like they did in CA, but they instead chose to continue allowing renewals even while new sales were paused. Now it seems line they’re going to start new sales up again and that makes it messier to reboot the program when they could have just issued partial refunds for the unused portion of existing passes (rather than giving us the choice of a refund or an extension).

One thing that I think differentiates the WDW AP from the DL AP is that a good percentage of WDW APs are non-FL residents (vs. mostly locals in CA), which means they are more likely to either:

A. Book multiple stays per year to make the AP work, or
B. Book longer stays to make the AP work, or
C. Both A and B.

Also, there is more direct competition located closer to WDW than there is for DL. Universal is about an hour away from DL, whereas there's only 15 minutes or so between WDW and Universal and that's just 1 of multiple parks/resorts in the area. Angering vacationing passholders could lead to more of them deciding to give the competition's AP a shot instead. Not that I think WDW is above trying to maximize revenue, but I think they have a decent idea of what things will cause grumbling but no significant loss of customers vs. what will push people to their competitors.

no...you pretty much got the angles down there...

the “x factor” is that wdw customers are buy and large - frankly - stupid. And the Disneylanders are more confrontational/demanding

I know that’s a paradox...”Californian chill” vs “New York confrontations”...but it plays with Disney.

east coasters will do whatever to get there. Different market.

Say attendance had risen steadily for years in non peak times? And instead of increasing the hours by 2 (traditional)...in Anaheim they instead ask for $130 for 3 hours to relieve the pressure?

just think about that.

that bird wouldn’t fly.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Keep in mind, there was a major advantage to having long on-site stays with FP+. With the 14 day rolling window for onsite guests, you could get pretty much any FP you wanted past day 6 or 7. I think getting rid of that advantage will likely reduce people taking longer trips. I know last year, I was going to take a 10 day trip just for that reason, but in the future where that doesn't matter? I'll likely do a quick 5 day trip instead.

lol...it’s the same old stuff

and the system sucked

and something new will be coming over the horizon...maybe faster than we thought?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Is there any possibility that the reason they are dissolving the old FP+ system is to prolong visits? With FP+, you can do 10 rides a day in a park. Without it, that is not possible and depending on the time of year, you might only be able to do 5.

If they go with the Max Pass model, that won't be so bad. However, I cannot find information on whether the $15 per ticket/per day is for ONE ride or as many as you can reserve using the system. Could someone please answer that?

what the hell are they offering to make people tack on $1500 a day (guess for a party of 4 all in) to warrant that kinda consumer response?

...other than nothing wdw have done for 10 years makes any sense?

I wish I had the answer to that one

 

[jinx8402]

lol...it’s the same old stuff

and the system sucked

and something new will be coming over the horizon...maybe faster than we thought?

Definitely wasn't trying to say if it was good or bad, just what it was. And there was a clear advantage to take long trips.

I'm sure the mouse enjoyed people taking long trips...or maybe not? Maybe they would prefer 2 families staying 5 days each instead of 1 for 10 days? I could see spending per day taking a hit on longer stays too.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Definitely wasn't trying to say if it was good or bad, just what it was. And there was a clear advantage to take long trips.

I'm sure the mouse enjoyed people taking long trips...or maybe not? Maybe they would prefer 2 families staying 5 days each instead of 1 for 10 days? I could see spending per day taking a hit on longer stays too.

no...I got you...we’re all spitballing.

the primary “advantage”
To long trips was the per day ticket “discount”...and frankly, having more time to ignore their scheduling system. It went to far.

as far as what they would prefer - it’s complicated.

I can tell you “for sure” that the Eisner regime absolutely coveted longer trips. Look at the map...they built for it. They priced to encourage it. It’s a bit of a tragedy that it hit a wall at DAK.

but here’s the last crew: what day of the trip are you more likely to buy more/frivolous food and merch that are more high profit segments?

day 3? Or day 8?

Easy answer...makes sense for Disney...still sucks.