FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[MickeyLuv'r]

If you waited that long in the FP line, there had to be some other problem, probably mechanical. Soarin' built a whole new theater because of that. Also if you are not aggressive in the Soarin' lines (either one) that are like 3 lane highways. people from behind find themselves way up front quite easily especially when the games were playing in the queue.

I'm personally counting the Soarin' pre-show as part of the queue, because I think it is especially boring. On a ride like Test Track, designing your car is part of the attraction. Though TT riders aren't done queuing when they finish their design.

One joke I love is the sign on Universal's Twirl N' Hurl that says, "Don't WORRY....There is still more LINE!"

 

[MisterPenguin]

Enlighten us

Or... you can read the post you quoted.

 

[ColeTrain04]

I believe they paid more for those seats based on location. The parks are not the resort, however, if you do pay the rather foolish nightly rate at the high end resorts then a little present is not objectionable. Pulling you hair out and stressing over getting passes or not otherwise is not a good recipe for a fun vacation.

But that’s my point. I’ve never had issues getting any FP even when we don’t stay on property. You really just have know how to play the game. Getting what you want when you want take a little persistence and patience. But if you keep looking for the time you want it will show up more times than not.

 

[UNCgolf]

But that’s my point. I’ve never had issues getting any FP even when we don’t stay on property. You really just have know how to play the game. Getting what you want when you want take a little persistence and patience. But if you keep looking for the time you want it will show up more times than not.

That's not really the point, though. Of course having a FP is great and gives you a short wait.

The problem is for people who actually want to ride most or all rides (especially people who only get to go once every 5-10 years or something). You're going to end up having to do some rides standby (at the Magic Kingdom for sure) and those wait times are dramatically higher than they would be if FP didn't exist. You might save an hour and a half at Space Mountain, and then give every minute of it back when you have to wait 50 minutes to ride stuff like Winnie the Pooh instead of the 10-15 minutes it would be with no FastPasses.

For me personally, the FP+ system is great because there are a lot of rides I don't care about. I can usually get a FP for everything I'm interested in doing. But that's not true for a lot of guests, if not most guests.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

The same experience is you got in the park for the same price. But what you’re suggesting is that everyone get the same “perks” even though they didn’t really pay the same price. That’s the same as wanting box seats at the baseball game but paying for nosebleeds.......because you want the same “experience” the free things resort guests got was 60 days advance booking, which means no advance SDMT for you.....

I'm not quite sure that's his take. I'm sure he can speak for himself, but I think there is something to be said for line equality.

With FP, there are plebeians and royalty. FP is sorts great for the royalty...sorta.
Without FP, we might say the queue is more like a democracy or a republic.

As Mel Brooks said, "It is good to be the King." Except the scene where he says that, he is playing French King Louis.

Do we feel good about being selfish?

 

[ColeTrain04]

That's not really the point, though. Of course having a FP is great and gives you a short wait.

The problem is for people who actually want to ride most or all rides (especially people who only get to go once every 5-10 years or something). You're going to end up having to do some rides standby (at the Magic Kingdom for sure) and those wait times are dramatically higher than they would be if FP didn't exist. You might save an hour and a half at Space Mountain, and then give every minute of it back when you have to wait 50 minutes to ride stuff like Winnie the Pooh instead of the 10-15 minutes it would be with no FastPasses.

For me personally, the FP+ system is great because there are a lot of rides I don't care about. I can usually get a FP for everything I'm interested in doing. But that's not true for a lot of guests, if not most guests.

I literally ride most of the rides using only FP+. Yes there are some standby lines but those lines usually aren’t worth wasting a fast pass on because the wait is 30 minutes or less. If you only go once every 5-10 years then that’s even more of a reason to learn to play the game and plan that much more. And that’s the other thing....you’d be surprised how many people don’t know FP+ is free and or you can get more than 3 per day. So at the end of the day it’s not really my problem that a family had 5-10 years to plan a vacation and then failed miserably by not doing the research and planning they should have. I can literally do everything in MK in a day while taking a pool break at lunch time. We do it every year with no problems. If I can do it then I’m sure others can too......

 

[hopemax]

But that’s my point. I’ve never had issues getting any FP even when we don’t stay on property. You really just have know how to play the game. Getting what you want when you want take a little persistence and patience. But if you keep looking for the time you want it will show up more times than not.

Just so it's clear... Gaming the system isn't doing it "properly." It's identifying a weak point and exploiting it. If 40,000 people did it, it wouldn't work for them or you. Properly, which is the word another poster used, implies using it the way it was expected to be used. No way did Disney expect that people would refresh, refresh, refresh. My friend needed an October 1 MK park reservation for her DH. She refreshed 700 times (she counted). That is not normal or expected. If Disney management knew that's what people were doing, their eyes would bug out. It worked for 1 person, but proper means that it works for thousands.

 

[UNCgolf]

I literally ride most of the rides using only FP+. Yes there are some standby lines but those lines usually aren’t worth wasting a fast pass on because the wait is 30 minutes or less. If you only go once every 5-10 years then that’s even more of a reason to learn to play the game and plan that much more. And that’s the other thing....you’d be surprised how many people don’t know FP+ is free and or you can get more than 3 per day. So at the end of the day it’s not really my problem that a family had 5-10 years to plan a vacation and then failed miserably by not doing the research and planning they should have. I can literally do everything in MK in a day while taking a pool break at lunch time. We do it every year with no problems. If I can do it then I’m sure others can too......

As the poster above said, that's not true. If everyone did what you're suggesting, the system would be totally broken and you wouldn't be able to get more than 3 or 4 FastPasses in a day.

Also, what you're claiming can't possibly be true. There's no way you can do every single attraction at the MK in one day with a pool break even if you got 10 FastPasses (which is almost impossible to do unless you're there on one of the least crowded days of the year). That would still require multiple hours of waiting in line for all the other attractions. Maybe (and it's still unlikely) you could have when the park was open for 16 hours in a day like it was years ago, but certainly not anymore.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That's not really the point, though. Of course having a FP is great and gives you a short wait.

The problem is for people who actually want to ride most or all rides (especially people who only get to go once every 5-10 years or something). You're going to end up having to do some rides standby (at the Magic Kingdom for sure) and those wait times are dramatically higher than they would be if FP didn't exist. You might save an hour and a half at Space Mountain, and then give every minute of it back when you have to wait 50 minutes to ride stuff like Winnie the Pooh instead of the 10-15 minutes it would be with no FastPasses.

For me personally, the FP+ system is great because there are a lot of rides I don't care about. I can usually get a FP for everything I'm interested in doing. But that's not true for a lot of guests, if not most guests.

exactly...

not having to reserve each ride in advance was a better overall system. Many people would chose to skip rides...resulting in walking. But the prebooking/pressure on everything eliminated the natural freedom to chose. So you don’t skip your crappy fastpass...cause you can’t get anything else without a significant portion of your day gaming it.

and those that do keep rolling with the app fast passes...more power to you. But it requires gaming the system. That’s not effective mass crowd management. It’s worth it for maxpass...cause you can queue them and knock out a block...not worth it for +.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

As the poster above said, that's not true. If everyone did what you're suggesting, the system would be totally broken and you wouldn't be able to get more than 3 or 4 FastPasses in a day.

Also, what you're claiming can't possibly be true. There's no way you can do every single attraction at the MK in one day with a pool break even if you got 10 FastPasses (which is almost impossible to do unless you're there on one of the least crowded days of the year). That would still require multiple hours of waiting in line for all the other attractions. Maybe (and it's still unlikely) you could have when the park was open for 16 hours in a day like it was years ago, but certainly not anymore.

yeah...this is a case of zealot presenting themselves as “normal”

but as with any system...”zealot” can’t be the norm. Doesn’t work that way...that’s why they’re fringe

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

We've done trips on a wide range of budgets, too. The point is that it used to be pretty well hidden.

Oh, I know perfectly well what the plaid jacket means! THAT family doesn't have to wait with us plebes!



I don't know. I don't think Grand Floridian is exactly hidden. The opulence is rather visible from the MK. And once you are in the GF hotel lobby, it is clear the people hanging out on the upper level balconies are WDW's special people.

If any WDW hotel is a bit hidden, it is the All Stars...no, wait...make that POR. POR is definitely hidden among all those trees with all the moss!

Ooh, no wait...the most hidden WDW hotel offering of all has to be the Treehouses at Saratoga Springs. They very hidden and RATHER pricey! Very unique, but pricey!

It might be fair to say some of WDW's pricey rooms are hidden while some are quite visible. In the case of FP, WDW has already experimented with CL customers getting extra FP. That wasn't in everyone's face. Overwhelmingly, WDW visitors had no idea that some people were already getting extra pre-booked FP, and that they got first dibs on what rides/times they wanted.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Oh, I know perfectly well what the plaid jacket means! THAT family doesn't have to wait with us plebes!



I don't know. I don't think Grand Floridian is exactly hidden. The opulence is rather visible from the MK. And once you are in the GF hotel lobby, it is clear the people hanging out on the upper level balconies are WDW's special people.

If any WDW hotel is a bit hidden, it is the All Stars...no, wait...make that POR. POR is definitely hidden among all those trees with all the moss!

Ooh, no wait...the most hidden WDW hotel offering of all has to be the Treehouses at Saratoga Springs. They very hidden and RATHER pricey! Very unique, but pricey!

It might be fair to say some of WDW's pricey rooms are hidden while some are quite visible. In the case of FP, WDW has already experimented with CL customers getting extra FP. That wasn't in everyone's face. Overwhelmingly, WDW visitors had no idea that some people were already getting extra pre-booked FP, and that they got first dibs on what rides/times they wanted.

There also weren't regular hours constantly being cut for upcharge events and parties.

Or roped off areas to charge people more so they can have a good view of fireworks.

Etc. etc.

 

[Goofyernmost]

But that’s my point. I’ve never had issues getting any FP even when we don’t stay on property. You really just have know how to play the game. Getting what you want when you want take a little persistence and patience. But if you keep looking for the time you want it will show up more times than not.

I guess that is OK if you want to devote that much time to it. Personally I'd reather spend 10 minutes more in a single line then to spend countless hours looking for the hard to find FP. Personal choice.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

That's not really the point, though. Of course having a FP is great and gives you a short wait.

The problem is for people who actually want to ride most or all rides (especially people who only get to go once every 5-10 years or something). You're going to end up having to do some rides standby (at the Magic Kingdom for sure) and those wait times are dramatically higher than they would be if FP didn't exist. You might save an hour and a half at Space Mountain, and then give every minute of it back when you have to wait 50 minutes to ride stuff like Winnie the Pooh instead of the 10-15 minutes it would be with no FastPasses.

For me personally, the FP+ system is great because there are a lot of rides I don't care about. I can usually get a FP for everything I'm interested in doing. But that's not true for a lot of guests, if not most guests.

To some extent this is true, but it is also true that when people who kept pulling their 4th (and beyond) - those FP kept some people in the park later than they originally planned.

Or else those later FP lead them choose a ride they would not have ridden. Maybe you're in Tomorrowland, and you could ride Buzz, but you get a Pooh FP. So you choose Pooh FP over a 20minute Buzz standby. Sometimes walking across MK+the pooh FP queue = what the Buzz queue would have been.

It is a little like ADR's. If someone wants to eat at 'Ohana, but can't get a table for 6pm, they sometimes are willing to take a 4pm or 9pm ADR. They wouldn't NORMALLY eat dinner at 9pm, but they will eat that late to eat at 'Ohana.

Part of FP is that sort of trade-off.

 

[George]

The most hidden resort at WDW is the London Hotel with its Peter Pan, Mary Poppins, and Winnie the Pooh areas. In fact, I sometimes think that I’m the only one aware of its existence.

 

[mikejs78]

yeah...this is a case of zealot presenting themselves as “normal”

but as with any system...”zealot” can’t be the norm. Doesn’t work that way...that’s why they’re

I guess that is OK if you want to devote that much time to it. Personally I'd reather spend 10 minutes more in a single line then to spend countless hours looking for the hard to find FP. Personal choice.

I mean, it's not that hard. I've also routinely gotten 10+ FPs in a day, on very crowded days (Presidents Day Week 2019 was my last trip and it was rated a Crowd Level 10 most of the week by Touring Plans), and I certainly did not spend hours trying to get FPs. Often I would grab my next one while I was waiting in the FP return line. Yeah, I had to refresh a bit but only for a minute or two. It wasn't rocket science nor was it very time consuming. It's also not some big secret or hacking the system, it's just using the app.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

yeah...this is a case of zealot presenting themselves as “normal”

but as with any system...”zealot” can’t be the norm. Doesn’t work that way...that’s why they’re fringe

Zealot is a bit comical. Refreshing was WIDELY publicized on WDW forums, blogs, etc.

And directions for getting a 4th FP was printed RIGHT on the WDW map! It was also clearly posted on the WDW website under the part that explained what FP was and how it worked.

This is a little like the recent thread about should 180 day ADR's come back. It was the same exact arguments. Planners like 180 day ADR's. Non-planners don't. Is it hard to research WDW via the internet? Should you do research before going to WDW?

I should think most WDWMagic forum members know WDW's rules pretty well, both for FP and ADR's. But maybe that isn't the case?

Certainly refreshing required a decent phone, and not everyone can afford a good phone.

 

[UNCgolf]

I mean, it's not that hard. I've also routinely gotten 10+ FPs in a day, on very crowded days (Presidents Day Week 2019 was my last trip and it was rated a Crowd Level 10 most of the week by Touring Plans), and I certainly did not spend hours trying to get FPs. Often I would grab my next one while I was waiting in the FP return line. Yeah, I had to refresh a bit but only for a minute or two. It wasn't rocket science nor was it very time consuming. It's also not some big secret or hacking the system, it's just using the app.

It's not about being hard to do; it's that it would be impossible to get 10+ FastPasses if everyone did it. It would be almost impossible to get more than 4 or 5. The longer the system is in place, the closer it will get to that point as more and more people are familiar with it.

Regardless, it's not operationally efficient for Disney which is why they're going to get rid of it.

 

[UNCgolf]

This is a little like the recent thread about should 180 day ADR's come back. It was the same exact arguments. Planners like 180 day ADR's. Non-planners don't. Is it hard to research WDW via the internet? Should you do research before going to WDW?

I don't think that's remotely true. I'm a big planner and I hate 180 day ADRs. I think the vast majority of planners hate them. It's a terrible system to have to book a meal that far in advance.

Anyways, FP+ is a different argument. It's not really about planning vs. non-planning; it's that FP+ makes the parks worse and the waits longer for the majority of guests.

 

[mikejs78]

It's not about being hard to do; it's that it would be impossible to get 10+ FastPasses if everyone did it. It would be almost impossible to get more than 4 or 5. The longer the system is in place, the closer it will get to that point as more and more people are familiar with it.

Regardless, it's not operationally efficient for Disney which is why they're going to get rid of it.

I actually don't think it would be.. Part of the reason it works is because so many people adjust and change their FP reservation times or drop FPs they can't make all day long.

I also don't think they are going to get rid of it. By the sounds of it, they are just retooling it and charging some $$ for parts of it.