FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[GhostHost1000]

What if Disney just copied Universal's system. Stay in a deluxe resort get fast passes included. Everyone else has to pay a premium.

I would like this …but I may be bias as a dvc member lol

 

[wbostic12]

Disney is honestly taking a lot of serious risks with reduction of on-site amenities. The ability for Disney to keep guests exclusively on property is dwindling by their own actions. I am curious how this affects traffic at places like Disney Springs, which has a great deal of traffic from resort guests. With DME and Minnie Vans leaving, staying off-site and ubering around Orlando to spend money other places seems to counteract the measures put in place to keep guests interested in staying on site throughout their vacation.

 

[doctornick]

Tell that to their programmers.

Right but that’s almost certainly DVC your (trying to sell them) not for DVC owners

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Disney is honestly taking a lot of serious risks with reduction of on-site amenities. The ability for Disney to keep guests exclusively on property is dwindling by their own actions. I am curious how this affects traffic at places like Disney Springs, which has a great deal of traffic from resort guests. With DME and Minnie Vans leaving, staying off-site and ubering around Orlando to spend money other places seems to counteract the measures put in place to keep guests interested in staying on site throughout their vacation.

Disney has made it clear that they no longer care about keeping guests on property. They've made the calculation that Uber and Lyft are too widespread and it's a battle they can't win. They obviously still want the resort room night revenue, but they no longer seem to care about protecting the captive guest bubble for F&B, merch, and recreation.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Part of the issue isn't just the price...it's also that previously, you couldn't tell the "haves" from the "have nots" when you were at WDW, it provided an escape from that. Now it's right in people's faces everywhere.

That’s a really important point I don’t believe I’ve ever seen mentioned in all these years on a board

Disneyland/Disney world was built for a middle class clientele. It was never “cheap”...but it could be “affordable” to nearly all.

there was a uniformity that made everyone feel that they could integrate.

they held that to varying for degrees for 50 years.

one of Bob the Greats legacies is he disregarded that. Which is what happens when it’s a Wall Street driven company...not a Burbank driven one.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

That’s a really important point I don’t believe I’ve ever seen mentioned in all these years on a board

Disneyland/Disney world was built for a middle class clientele. It was never “cheap”...but it count be “affordable” to nearly all.

there was a uniformity that made everyone feel that they could integrate.

they held that to varying to degrees for 50 years.

one of Bob the Greats legacies is he disregarded that. Which is what happens when it’s a Wall Street driven company...not a Burbank driven one.

That's exactly what I've been trying to say every time people bring up price hikes and paid fastpass.

They're treating us all like cash cows. The ones who can't afford it anymore are the ones sent to slaughter. It's really gross.

 

[LaughingGravy]

Up the numbers to be 8-10 fastpasses per person for Deluxe, 5-8 for Moderate and 3-5 for Value and I'm on board.

I hope Disney is ready for the internet meltdown that is going to occur when they change how it used to work and begin to charge for it

I’m hoping it’ll make things better but I’m worried Disney is more focused on making $ than making guests happy and it’s going to appear that way as well

Nah, See parking fees for resort guests.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Remember if everyone has FP nobody has FP.

Except in practice, this wasn't how FP+ actually worked. It wasn't evenly used by everyone.

After the 3 pre-booked FP, everyone had the ability to book a 4th FP, but few people knew about it, or at least how to use that option effectively. Many opted to use just 3 FP for assorted reasons. There were also people who didn't book any FP.

More or less, I imagine there will always be a % of WDW visitors that won't use FP.

 

[eliza61nyc]

They won't be too happy when they finally price out all the people who make Disney their one family vacation every year.

That’s a really important point I don’t believe I’ve ever seen mentioned in all these years on a board

Disneyland/Disney world was built for a middle class clientele. It was never “cheap”...but it count be “affordable” to nearly all.

there was a uniformity that made everyone feel that they could integrate.

they held that to varying to degrees for 50 years.

one of Bob the Greats legacies is he disregarded that. Which is what happens when it’s a Wall Street driven company...not a Burbank driven one.

Normally I would agree but I have to give it to Disney, they have marketed their product better than anyone I know.
Disney vacations are now almost a right of passage, I mean seriously to the point where people feel as if they are bad parents if they don't take their kids to the world.
So instead of the feeling that they it was "doable" it's now more of the feeling "what must I do at all cost to give Jimmy and Jane this experience".

Next I do think they know that even if people complain they are coming. we see it here, folks start threads flat out complaining about Disney and then saying they have their next trip book. they try to justify it with things like "oh I'll stay offsite" or "we've stop buying the extras" but the bottom line is the constant complainers who revel in the glory days are still going and giving the company their money. So they aren't worried about taking a big hit because well they're really not going to take a big hit.

 

[havoc315]

Disney has made it clear that they no longer care about keeping guests on property. They've made the calculation that Uber and Lyft are too widespread and it's a battle they can't win. They obviously still want the resort room night revenue, but they no longer seem to care about protecting the captive guest bubble for F&B, merch, and recreation.

Just because they acknowledge they can't keep the same level of control they used to, they are definitely still very interested in keeping them on properly as much as possible. And especially getting them to stay on property.
A week in a deluxe resort brings them far more profit than just a week of off-site tickets.

But they are capitalists.... Looking to maximize their revenue and profit. They don't need to "give away" to on-site guests more than is necessary to get them to book. They are very good at managing discounts so that their resorts always have a high occupancy rate.
If you can charge both on-site and off-site guests for FP, then why give it for "free" to on-site guests, if it's not going to really boost your occupancy anyway.

Compare it to DVC -- The changes to blue card perks over the years. They want to encourage direct purchases over re-sale. They used to have generous blue card perks -- But they have cut down on costly blue card perks, in favor of re-sale restrictions. Instead of giving an incentive to buy direct, give a disincentive to buying re-sale.

And that's what they continue to do with on-site incentives. How do you encourage people to stay on site, in the least costly way possible. Don't give them night-time EMH -- because that's a valuable perk you can charge extra for! (Upcoming boo bash). DME was expensive and wasn't making a big enough difference!

But Disney is still using those perks that do make a difference: Improving the quality of on-site transportation with the Skyliner: on-site transportation vs paying for parking is still a big on-site perk. The coming early entry system will really penalize off-site rope dropping. With the current low availability of dining reservations, being able to book 60+ days by staying on-site is actually a significant perk that doesn't cost Disney anything.

And I would suspect that whatever the new FP system is, it gives on-site some level of advantage. Like with Boo Bash, on-site guests are apparently getting and earlier booking window. DVC members usually get a discount on ticketed special events. I'd be a little surprised if there was no on-site advantage connected to the new FP system.

 

[MJM]

I don’t really understand a lot of arguments in this thread. Fastpass is coming back in some capacity. Essentially every other theme park in this country has a fastpass system. Disney can’t rewind the clock to 1985 and pretend not having fastpass is better when they themselves had it for decades. Every attraction will in some fashion be available for fastpass except for attractions which just opened. Arguing against any of this makes zero sense.

At this point I think the only questions really remaining are will it still be free, what specific advantages will they give to hotel guests, and will it still be tiered and required to book in advance? And I don’t think anyone has the answers to those yet. I’m not even sure Disney does.

I 100% agree. FP is returning and those who were not in favor of it either don’t understand how to use it properly or just don’t like to plan in advance of their trip. FP when used properly allows a family to forgo the typically longest attraction ride wait times in the park. When you research the attractions at WDW it’s a simple game of knowing which 3 rides you will use your FP for and plan your day accordingly. Why would I wait over an hour for Splash Mnt when I can score a FP sometime in the days I’m visiting the parks? It’s a no brainer. And again the people who are against FP don’t understand how to score them and how much time you save by having them. Disney will bring them back but the capacity increases need to happen first and this is just the beginning of that. Give it a month or 2 and we will certainly see FP or something similar implemented. Also PP and FP are not mutually exclusive. One did not “replace” the other. One was implemented before the other due to the pandemic and timing. But we will see both in the future IMO

 

[ppete1975]

tl;dr - FastPass doesn't increase theoretical capacity, but it increases effective capacity by filling vehicles on attractions that would run partially empty in a standby-only environment.

doesnt single rider line do that more efficiently (pre covid)

 

[TimeTrip]

When you research the attractions at WDW it’s a simple game of knowing which 3 rides you will use your FP for and plan your day accordingly. Why would I wait over an hour for Splash Mnt when I can score a FP sometime in the days I’m visiting the parks? It’s a no brainer. And again the people who are against FP don’t understand how to score them and how much time you save by having them.

That's great if you're actually able to get those exact 3 rides (booking windows?), only care about riding ONLY those 3 rides. Once you have to venture to other rides, or another "high-popularity" ride that you couldn't get because it was Tier 1, FP+ shows its ugly side as you have to wait on much longer standby lines on those other attractions.

If I only ever cared about riding splash mountain, yes it's a no brainer. Especially as a local, its *usually* pretty good. However I had to go a long time w/o riding FoP or Frozen because it was nigh impossible to get reservations, and because of FP+ the standby lines were absurd. I've ridden FoP a few times now since there is no FP+, and the wait is quite reasonable. I just waited 40 minutes for Frozen yesterday, and that was reasonable even though there was an actual glut of FP from what I believe to be ones given out when the ride was down earlier in the day.

For general all-day touring, I prefer no FP. As a local AP, I like the idea of advance booking, but it has its faults.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

doesnt single rider line do that more efficiently (pre covid)

It solves a different problem. Single rider solves for odd-numbered parties on popular attractions. That's very important on something like Test Track. But Single Rider doesn't help you fill the Aladdin carpets or Jungle Cruise boats.

 

[MaximumEd]

doesnt single rider line do that more efficiently (pre covid)

Yeah, for the 2 rides that have it. (I don’t know the exact number, but it isn’t many.)

 

[PirateFrank]

Tell that to their programmers.

When you originally posted those categories in another other thread...someone responded to you saying that the DVC category is most likely extra FPs as perks/inticements to prospective DVC buyers, not DVC owners....kinda like getting a free night for sitting through a time share presentation.

Also, while I am not currently an online application developer, I used to be. Developers create categories like this all the time - it doesn't mean they are going to be actively used. It might be a placeholder in case they ever see a need for a DVC based category.

Granted I could be wrong and there's a DVC category - but Ive been an owner for more than 13 years - and I can't possibly see the company giving out such a perk. DVC perks have disappeared/dwindled over time, not the reverse.

 

[MJM]

I never experienced 60 to 90 minutes waits for any ride before FP. Even Space Mountain, which was the run to attraction of the era, was not that long a wait. Unless there was a breakdown, 45 minutes tops and that was unusual. I'd say 30 minutes was about average. People are looking at wait times in standby based on the current times with FP. I have heard very little complaining since the FP has been withheld recently. If you saw a line that extended past the reasonable time you just went past it and came back later. It is not as foreboding as it has been made out to be. But, I guess we are operating on full on fear mode all over these days so I guess I can understand why there is the concern. It's just that this is a fun and popular theme park. No matter how many occasional short FP lines you get, it will catch you somewhere along the line because capacity remains the same. Just so many per hour. What you skip in one will be staring you in the face on the next one.

Nope. I have to politely disagree. I might FP Space Mnt to wait only 5-10 mins and use my other 2 FPs on 7dwarfs and Splash Mtn. At no other time will I wait 45 mins + to ride anything else in MK. We have never waited more than 20 mins for EVERY ride at all 4 parks using the FP system every summer for the last 7 yrs pre Covid. Because we know how to use it properly. The ONLY reason you’re saying you haven’t heard a complaint recently with the removal of FP is because the parks have been at 35% capacity. That will not be the case going forward. The lines for the most popular attractions will exceedingly get longer and longer this summer and fall and we WILL see the standby lines showing wait times of over an hour more likely 2+ for the major attractions without the reimplementation of some sort of FP system. It’s simple math

 

[MJM]

This is not correct. It's based on a fundamental misunderstanding of guest behavior.

FP+ does increase effective operating capacity at less popular attractions, which increases the effective operating capacity of the park overall. When it comes to popular attractions, you're correct. Every single train is going to be full at Big Thunder Mountain from park open until park close. The "magic" of FastPass+ is that it steers people towards less popular attractions that would not otherwise operate at full capacity.

Spaceship Earth has a theoretical capacity of 2,400 guests per hour, but if they're sending up half of their vehicles empty before 11am and after 7pm, they're not delivering on those 2,400 guests per hour. FP+ helps keep that number as close to 2,400 throughout the operating day as possible, pulling people out of the standby lines for those more popular attractions.

tl;dr - FastPass doesn't increase theoretical capacity, but it increases effective capacity by filling vehicles on attractions that would run partially empty in a standby-only environment.


The Park Reservation system is only useful to Disney in a capacity-restricted context.

When capacity limits are lifted and the parks are no longer "selling out" every day, the guests will have no incentive whatsoever to commit to a Park Pass. They'll just wait until same-day and make their reservations then. This is absolutely useless to Disney from an operational data perspective.

Right on the money with the above explanation of how FP does increase effective operating capacity. Best simplified explanation of how it works that I’ve ever seen!

 

[PirateFrank]

Nope. I have to politely disagree. I might FP Space Mnt to wait only 5-10 mins and use my other 2 FPs on 7dwarfs and Splash Mtn. At no other time will I wait 45 mins + to ride anything else in MK. We have never waited more than 20 mins for EVERY ride at all 4 parks using the FP system every summer for the last 7 yrs pre Covid. Because we know how to use it properly. The ONLY reason you’re saying you haven’t heard a complaint recently with the removal of FP is because the parks have been at 35% capacity. That will not be the case going forward. The lines for the most popular attractions will exceedingly get longer and longer this summer and fall and we WILL see the standby lines showing wait times of over an hour more likely 2+ for the major attractions without the reimplementation of some sort of FP system. It’s simple math

There's a continued assertion by some that wait times are better with FP......and truth be told, its a mathematical impossibility on any attraction with a saturated queue.

 

[runnsally]

There's a continued assertion by some that wait times are better with FP......and truth be told, its a mathematical impossibility on any attraction with a saturated queue.

Same total wait time for the sum of all individuals, but the time each individual waits is distributed differently with FP