FastPass+ Chaos at MK today

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
I think that's exactly the case, and it's why it's so unpopular around here. The better you know WDW, the less you need tools to help you make the most of it. You know what rides are busy when, what the weather's going to do at different times of the year, how the Expedition Everest Fastpass distribution window progresses through the day, etc. While people who go all the time find planning a burden, people who only go once in awhile find comfort in the fact that their "must-dos" are locked in. They don't have to worry about whether they'll have to wait two hours to meet Elsa because they can lock in that Fastpass that says they will. If you're a passholder or frequent visitor, you lose that value. If you miss Elsa because the line is too long, no worries because you'll be back in a few weeks. The more you go, the more you value flexibility. You can make changes on the fly because you don't really have any must-dos. Must-dos become "would be nice to do, but if not there's always next time."
While you make a valid point, how does it work if that family that locked in that FP+ for A&E arrives and there is a problem with their account and/or the FP+ is not showing up for one their family members? (this happened to my brother). Now, the relief that family got when they locked in that FP+ 2 months ago is gone, the time they spent 2 months ago planning that part of the day was wasted because now they are line at GR trying to get help. Heaven forbid its a busy day because that line at GR can easily be a 30 minute wait. What if they planned an ADR for 30 minutes after A&E? Now little Sally is crying because she was so close to Anna and Elsa but had to leave and your getting hungry and upset about waiting in another line at WDW, only this line doesnt have an attraction at the end, just a CM that will most likely have to get a tech to help figure out what went wrong. Will Disney fix the problem for them? Sure, but a large chunk of the day that was planned out 60 days ago is all shot.
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
While you make a valid point, how does it work if that family that locked in that FP+ for A&E arrives and there is a problem with their account and/or the FP+ is not showing up for one their family members? (this happened to my brother). Now, the relief that family got when they locked in that FP+ 2 months ago is gone, the time they spent 2 months ago planning that part of the day was wasted because now they are line at GR trying to get help. Heaven forbid its a busy day because that line at GR can easily be a 30 minute wait. What if they planned an ADR for 30 minutes after A&E? Will Disney fix the problem for them? Sure, but a large chunk of the day that was planned out 60 days ago is all shot.
I definitely agree. Any perceived "defense" I've given of FP+ is built on the premise that it works as designed. I agree with the criticisms of it's execution but disagree with criticisms of its design.
 

ZachS

Member
My wife and I went to WDW for our honeymoon right before FP+ came out. I had been there many many times before but my wife hadn't been there in something like 15 years. We went again a few months later and by then FP+ was up and running. The most noticeable difference was that we were able to move smoothly around the parks without jumping from one area to another and back again and we don't have to worry about if we'll be able to get a Fast Pass for something we want to ride. I don't see making three fast passes and a dinner reservation as micro managing my vacation, there is still plenty of time to be spontaneous.

The longer lines seem to me to be a product of both more people in the parks AND FP+. The parks seem more crowded in general, it's not just longer lines.

I don't love FP+, I wouldn't be that upset if it went away, but it has made our trips go smoother.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
I definitely agree. Any perceived "defense" I've given of FP+ is built on the premise that it works as designed. I agree with the criticisms of it's execution but disagree with criticisms of its design.
When it works as designed, its a good system. No doubt there. Just a lot of variables in play for something to go wrong. You made a good point also about those who frequently visit. They have much less to worry or care about as they have most likely done everything fifteen times already that year. Wife and I visit a few times a year and have had days that we rode 1 ride all day and spent the rest of the time eating, drinking, lounging, etc. We joke about how we are helping make the line less long. There is so much to do its not hard to forget about FP for the day and just enjoy yourself, with the exception of getting a seat inside La Cava de Tequila!!!, lol
 

BrerJon

Well-Known Member
We basically criss crossed the park after walking there and it was down then we walked over to Dinosaur. and people claim that 'rushing all over the park for legacy FP was horrible. lol. Glad we didnt mind legacy because Im sure the sheer horror of walking around would have ruined our day. /sarcasm

You've seen the size of people in WDW, walking is clearly *not* something many guests enjoy doing!
 

ZachS

Member
I do enjoy relaxing in Cava de Tequila, we usually go during the festivals so evenings at Epcot we don't worry about FPs and just try different craft and foreign beers
 

bhg469

Well-Known Member
A WDW vacation requires a planner much like a bachelor party requires a DD!
While I agree my trips in the past were not much more than showing up. Going back 15 years I literally only picked the hotel and the dates I was staying. After that we would just look at the available restaurants and show up. If we had to wait a few hours so be it.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
I was basically a 1st timer when I went, but considered myself fairly well studied by the time I got there. The people that I know that go to Disney for the first time, they fall in the category of “knowing enough to be dangerous”. I think for them, they’ve basically read through the Disney documentation and have a high level overview of how things work (hotels, FP+, ADR, transportation, etc). They aren’t reading blogs, viewing crowd calendars, or doing touring plans. For these people (who I think represent a BIG % of the people there), they would answer that the current system works fine. When I was there, I never ran into problems with my FP+ reservations, scanning the band, opening my door, etc. I don’t know for sure, but I just think that, technically, most people probably don’t run into problems.


From a big picture standpoint, even assuming everyone’s band is working ok, I don’t really know if the system is accomplishing the goals it set out to do. A lot of the blame is being placed on increased crowd levels, but no clue if that’s true or not. My friends went every year at the end of Jan/early Feb and always said the crowds were extremely low. I asked them how low and he said “We’ve never waited longer than 20 minutes”…and they are LATE risers. This year, practically every ride between 10am-6pm had a 20 minute wait at a minimum. All crowd levels? I don’t know about that. I was told on the first day we were there that there were 40,000 people expected at the parks that day. Not sure how accurate, but it came from a CM.
I think you also need to take another thing in consideration.
Example.. American visitors are way more keen to use their phones and tablets to get their fastpass and check reservations than Latinamerican or Asian visitors.
So the load on days where US visitors flock to the parks, might be harder on the networks than when theres the gigantic flood of Brazilian groups.
thats IMHO.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
Adding technology to something does not necessarily make it better. Just because the technology has cool features, it does not necessarily make it better. Just because the technology exists, that does not mean it MUST be used. Can it makes things easier? Sure, but does 'easier' truly make it better if it can come at the cost of a major malfunction happening at any given moment?
I have agree to this 1000 times!
trust me, I had friends who went to the super "modern" and "connected" Quantum of the Seas..
The supposed technology marvel of Royal Caribbean.
and most of them had MISERABLE experience because their systems were failing NON STOP.
reservations keep disappearing, the supposed expedite and "fast" boarding was a nightmare of 8 hours for some people and even inside.. their magicband style readers couldnt even open their cabins or pay the food in the restaurants!!

And they are planning on adding all these changes to the Oasis of the Seas and Allure of the Seas.


(ps, speaking of the Royal Caribbean ships.... CATS the broadway musical is now a show displaying on the OASIS, and also.. the Disney Cruise Line fleet swepped hard on the CruiseCritics scores... in some ways in staggering ways! )
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
The internet is also full of people who have seen Big Foot...
not saying it was aliens but...

aliens.jpeg
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
I think that's exactly the case, and it's why it's so unpopular around here. The better you know WDW, the less you need tools to help you make the most of it. You know what rides are busy when, what the weather's going to do at different times of the year, how the Expedition Everest Fastpass distribution window progresses through the day, etc. While people who go all the time find planning a burden, people who only go once in awhile find comfort in the fact that their "must-dos" are locked in. They don't have to worry about whether they'll have to wait two hours to meet Elsa because they can lock in that Fastpass that says they will. If you're a passholder or frequent visitor, you lose that value. If you miss Elsa because the line is too long, no worries because you'll be back in a few weeks. The more you go, the more you value flexibility. You can make changes on the fly because you don't really have any must-dos. Must-dos become "would be nice to do, but if not there's always next time."
call me genious or what.. but I figured almost all the basics of WDW in just 5 days.
The app is a confabulated mess and confused me more than it helped.

and I AM A IT ENGINEER.

now imagine your every day person?
My mother was "big nope".
 

BrerJon

Well-Known Member
The more you go, the more you value flexibility. You can make changes on the fly because you don't really have any must-dos. Must-dos become "would be nice to do, but if not there's always next time."

I think this is true. When you've done every attraction hundreds of times, your tolerance for line waits is far less, and your desire to schedule yet another ride is even less.

If a casual visitor pops down to Magic Kingdom for the afternoon they might in the past have, for example, met up with some friends and been walking past Buzz Lightyear, seen the standby line was only 10 minutes and decided to ride it. But nowadays, the line is always 45 minutes. So that person goes to the next ride that in the past had a short line, but same again - it's past the threshold. Try another ride? Same again, and so on and so on.

Pretty soon there's nothing left in the park that doesn't involve a long wait. That wasn't an issue in the old days - In the past, even on crowded days, if you were with a group of friends you'd walk past the ride, see the board telling you what time Fastpasses were being given for, and if the return time was fairly soon and enough of the group wanted to go on the ride, you could all go to the machines and get your tickets.

Now, there is no board to walk past, so at every ride you might want to go on you then have to have every person in your party power up the app and see if you all see the same availability. Or you have to cross the park to wherever there is something with availability.

But will you all see the same timeslots? Probably not. The software has no idea that five parties of one and a party of four all want to ride together, as the system has no way to group people temporarily - it's all done based on vacations, or families, or other groupings that don't fit casual visitors who just want to go on a ride together with people they only know very casually for an hour or so.

Now what if someone in the group has run out of battery, or doesn't even have the app? Well then they need to line up for a kiosk, while everyone else waits, and hope that by the time she gets to the front there is one time that will work for all the groups involved.

It's basically taken what was once a quick, easy and fun thing, and added tons of steps that make it a real chore and not worth bothering with. The reality is now casual groups just don't use Fastpass at all for the most part as it's too much hassle doing all the above, so the waits they experience are always longer than they were, and that's the key reason why casual visitors dislike the system.
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
I think this is true. When you've done every attraction hundreds of times, your tolerance for line waits is far less, and your desire to schedule yet another ride is even less.

If a casual visitor pops down to Magic Kingdom for the afternoon they might in the past have, for example, met up with some friends and been walking past Buzz Lightyear, seen the standby line was only 10 minutes and decided to ride it. But nowadays, the line is always 45 minutes. So that person goes to the next ride that in the past had a short line, but same again - it's past the threshold. Try another ride? Same again, and so on and so on.

Pretty soon there's nothing left in the park that doesn't involve a long wait. That wasn't an issue in the old days - In the past, even on crowded days, if you were with a group of friends you'd walk past the ride, see the board telling you what time Fastpasses were being given for, and if the return time was fairly soon and enough of the group wanted to go on the ride, you could all go to the machines and get your tickets.

Now, there is no board to walk past, so at every ride you might want to go on you then have to have every person in your party power up the app and see if you all see the same availability. Or you have to cross the park to wherever there is something with availability.

But will you all see the same timeslots? Probably not. The software has no idea that five parties of one and a party of four all want to ride together, as the system has no way to group people temporarily - it's all done based on vacations, or families, or other groupings that don't fit casual visitors who just want to go on a ride together with people they only know very casually for an hour or so.

Now what if someone in the group has run out of battery, or doesn't even have the app? Well then they need to line up for a kiosk, while everyone else waits, and hope that by the time she gets to the front there is one time that will work for all the groups involved.

It's basically taken what was once a quick, easy and fun thing, and added tons of steps that make it a real chore and not worth bothering with. The reality is now casual groups just don't use Fastpass at all for the most past as it's too much hassle doing all the above, so the waits they experience are always longer than they were, and that's the key reason why casual visitors dislike the system.
And the "business answer" to all of this is that the casual day guest isn't a money-maker. Their annual pass is already bought and paid for, they're not staying at the hotels, and they're much less likely than an on-property family to purchase Disney merch or F&B.
 

BrerJon

Well-Known Member
And the "business answer" to all of this is that the casual day guest isn't a money-maker. Their annual pass is already bought and paid for, they're not staying at the hotels, and they're much less likely than an on-property family to purchase Disney merch or F&B.

In the 1970s there was a philosophy at Disney that 'every guest was a VIP', and everyone should feel special.

This clearly has long gone, as they've realised that they don't need to focus on treating everyone well, as people don't stop going, they just stop spending, and the dollars lost from annoying the theming and quality crowd, or locals, or other low spenders, are more than made up for by appealing to the princess and branding 'Disney is a business' crowd, who far outnumber the former.
 
I was listening to a podcast the other day where they were talking about strategy with FP; either booking them in the morning (so you can get the 4th faster) or throughout the rest of the day at optimal times. The way they talked about getting the extra FP made it sound so quick/easy like "Yeah, and if you want another one, just pick up another FP for a ride and just keep doing that over and over".

When I was in the parks, I never felt like there was a close one around. Sure, I could walk 10 minutes to one, wait in line another 5 minutes, and then walk back another 10 minutes. At that point, I'd probably be better off just waiting in a line...it's not like any of the really good fastpasses were even available at that point.
 

pax_65

Well-Known Member
And the "business answer" to all of this is that the casual day guest isn't a money-maker. Their annual pass is already bought and paid for, they're not staying at the hotels, and they're much less likely than an on-property family to purchase Disney merch or F&B.

What about next year's annual pass? The annual pass I've renewed since 2000 for a family of 4 was not renewed this year. That's over $2,600 of my $ Disney didn't get. If things don't improve, they won't be renewed in the future either - if I visit WDW I'll just buy a 3-day pass and do other things since the parks are so crowded and unenjoyable anyway. So I guess my monetary value as a guest will continue to shrink. Good times... :(
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
In the 1970s there was a philosophy at Disney that 'every guest was a VIP', and everyone should feel special.

This clearly has long gone, as they've realised that they don't need to focus on treating everyone well, as people don't stop going, they just stop spending, and the dollars lost from annoying the theming and quality crowd, or locals, or other low spenders, are more than made up for by appealing to the princess and branding 'Disney is a business' crowd, who far outnumber the former.
What they don't get is that if the locals are happy, they'll bring their kids. Then their kids bring their kids, and so on. Because they live so close they're able to come more often. If that chain is broken because that local was no longer satisfied who knows how much they've lost. A man once said that "quality will out." It's time Disney followed that again.
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
A man once said that "quality will out." It's time Disney followed that again.
When Walt previewed his Lincoln animatronic, a valve ruptured and leaked red liquid out of his chest, leaving the audience horrified that he was recreating the assassination.

"Quality will out" does not mean you'll always be free from hiccups, especially when you're trying something entirely new. In fact, I'd argue that hiccups along the way are a necessary feature of trying something that's never been done before.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
When Walt previewed his Lincoln animatronic, a valve ruptured and leaked red liquid out of his chest, leaving the audience horrified that he was recreating the assassination.

"Quality will out" does not mean you'll always be free from hiccups, especially when you're trying something entirely new. In fact, I'd argue that hiccups along the way are a necessary feature of trying something that's never been done before.
I was talking about WDW in general, not MM+/-. Then again if "quality will out" was still the mantra we probably never would've gotten MM+/- and capacity would've been dealt with by building more actual capacity (rides). Disney is acting more like the student willing to do anything to pass a test except study.
 

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