ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
The problem here is the short term one and done works and for the moment is more profitable but as with all short term strategies it will eventually fail hard and there will be no backup plan
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FastPass+ Chaos at MK today
- Thread starter Arty Cordova
- Start date
The problem here is the short term one and done works and for the moment is more profitable but as with all short term strategies it will eventually fail hard and there will be no backup plan
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Cesar R M
Well-Known Member
Did Walt fire 99% of his animatronic crew right after the rupture and failure of that AA?
I dont think so.
Bairstow
Well-Known Member
Only the ones that tried to go union.
erasure fan1
Well-Known Member
Who said anything about bringing back legacy? While I find that the legacy system at this point is better than FP+, legacy had its own slew of problems as well. I do believe they could come to some sort of happy medium, I'm just not super confident they want to at this point. That is why I say if enough people complain, things might change. Catering to only one demographic is never a positive solution and rarely results in a enhanced product.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
The system can never work with the parks as they exist. The parks were not designed for such a system. Disney's goals dot work and they haven't worked in 20 years. Shopping and dining is not the primary motivation for people to visit the park and they cannot be forced into meaningfully spending more money. The system will only work with greatly expanded attraction capacity (exactly what Disney has been trying to avoid since 1992) so that a whole day truly can be planned or many, many more small scale, highly engaging attractions (which are near impossible to get approved as they typically are not mentioned as a motivation for spending) so that free time can be used beyond crowding walkways.
BrerJon
Well-Known Member
When Magic Kingdom was first designed, the idea was you'd arrive, explore Main Street, then head to the hub and choose a land. You'd then explore all the land had to offer - maybe ride a ride, see a show, try the shooting range, or perhaps explore a treehouse... the main thing was you were immersing yourself in what it would be like to live in the old West, or a fairytale kingdom, or a space-age future.
The concept of losing yourself in a land is gone now. Now, you know you've got to be in Adventureland at 11.45 and Tomorrowland at 2pm, and where once random character encounters would happen, there's now just outdoor vending carts. Even the people who used to commando the parks armed with a touring plan usually just had an order to see things in, not specific times they had to be places.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
And this is a big part of why FastPass did not work. Circulation was not designed for virtual queuing and so much cross traffic. It isn't just greed that shifted the rest of the industry away from the FastPass model. These decisions have been and are being made in a structure overseen by people with no theme park operational history or interest. Disney still thinks they're operating malls and FastPass/+ is supposed to be a sort of Gruen Transer (sorry Victor) where it pushes people around, confuses them and ultimately through aimlessly wandering in shops they break down and spend some money to fix their boredom. It didn't work starting in 1999 when FastPass was introduced and won't magically work now because you get to schedule your boredom six months in advance (yes, you're boredom is what is most important to Disney and why concerns about increased standby times were dismissed, because they're a plus). Theme parks aren't malls even if that is what detractors claim. People don't pay $100 to enter a mall, nor do they have the pricing structure of a captive audience.
pax_65
Well-Known Member
Will they pay $100 to then pay inflated prices for food, wine and beer from around the world?
Now that I'm facing a possible future without an annual pass, I find myself asking myself this question.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
The answer still seems to be yes, but it remains to a degree. The mentality is different. A person being bored and impulsively buying at a mall typically (ideally) has a wide variety of products and prices to better facilitate the unplanned indulgence. FastPass/+ hopes to push people towards retail, but that retail is severely lacking in variety. This was the whole point of things like the antique shops. Very few bought antiques, but there was a joy in the experience of seeing them that helped open wallets. Think of any store where the shopping experience is a big part of the package. They all feature that crazy, top of the line item that rarely sells but gets people excited.
BrerJon
Well-Known Member
Epcot still gets this I think - there are places like the perfume shop in France, the family history shop in the UK, the markets in Morocco, which don't just stock generic Disney merch and probably don't get many sales but help the atmosphere, but outside of World Showcase it's tough to find anything that you can't get in World of Disney, so no real need to spend any time in those places when you can just stop by Downtown on your last day and pick up anything you need then.
The idea of World of Disney, and making everything on sale in one store, was to capture extra dollars, but this has been at the expense of in-park transactions, so now they're trying to force people into the shops by having nothing else to do, but that won't help open wallets if there's no variety in available items.
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ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
What about next year's annual pass? The annual pass I've renewed since 2000 for a family of 4 was not renewed this year. That's over $2,600 of my $ Disney didn't get. If things don't improve, they won't be renewed in the future either - if I visit WDW I'll just buy a 3-day pass and do other things since the parks are so crowded and unenjoyable anyway. So I guess my monetary value as a guest will continue to shrink. Good times...
To the short term thinker - no problem lots of first timers, But over the time period that's new car money spent at WDW,
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
World Showcase is mostly leased space. But what happens when the Arendelle Pavilion opens and soars past the other pavilions in sales?
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
We get more C--p like Arendelle unfortunately...
Has anybody else been having friends or family who know you are a Disney nut tell you about the recent price hikes? I must have had at least ten people (who are not Disney nuts) tell me about it in the past week. I think the psychological boundary has been shattered judging by the reactions Ive seen when discussing it. While price hikes happen every year, I think the fact that they past that $100 dollar mark is proof of either how desperate they are to raise the bottom line so they can attribute it to MM+, or that they truly just dont care about the guests and they are willing to bleed them dry even if its at the cost of loosing them as repeat customers. Probly a combo of both.
ETA: Ill save some yahoo the time of typing this, "People are still going to visit so they might as well raise prices, Disney is a for profit business". And yes, they are. But they are just really pushing it and I feel the general public is starting to consider the price more than in the past.
ETA: Ill save some yahoo the time of typing this, "People are still going to visit so they might as well raise prices, Disney is a for profit business". And yes, they are. But they are just really pushing it and I feel the general public is starting to consider the price more than in the past.
COProgressFan
Well-Known Member
Yes, I have gotten some of that as well. In terms of prices, as well as quality of product.
Family friends (neighbors I grew up next to) took the grandkids to WDW last fall. Their biggest complaint was how outrageous the prices have become. And this is a "Disney" family, as well, who took their kids to WDW probably 5 or 6 times during their childhood in the 80's and 90's and are well aware that Disney was never a cheap vacation. They're fairly well off and certainly can afford it I suppose, but were completely disillusioned with the prices for tickets, food, and the resorts. Based on their comments, I got the impression they would probably return at some point (since grandkids are still very young) but probably not any time soon.
Their other main complaint was "they haven't really added anything" since they were last there (maybe 8 or 10 years ago). I think we can all identify with that as well. Projects are on the way, but things have largely been stagnant for years.
I think the issue is that as hardcore fans on message boards, we have felt the frustration with WDW for a number of years, but I do believe many of our concerns are filtering down to the more casual Disney fans, who don't visit message boards like this or even know they exist, or keep on top of all the goings on at WDW, etc.
It doesn't take much for a family who's last visit was a few years back to come to WDW today and feel "something seems different about this place".
pax_65
Well-Known Member
As a Disney fanatic, (former) AP holder, DVC member, and Disney stockholder I used to defend Disney to everyone and anyone. A trip to WDW was expensive, yes, but it was worth every penny. I never regretted the $ I spent and always felt I was getting good value. (I still don't regret the money I spent. We had some magical family vacations.)
But now? I just don't know anymore. For the first time I'm adding up the costs and thinking about the value I'm getting. I'm looking at other options - this year I will spend the money I would have spent at Disney elsewhere and see how it goes. That's because of everything - MM+, lack of new attractions, crowds, cost increases, paid events closing the parks (thus cutting into the value of my pass), loss of spontaneity, inability to eat on property without reserving 6 months out, etc.
But now? I just don't know anymore. For the first time I'm adding up the costs and thinking about the value I'm getting. I'm looking at other options - this year I will spend the money I would have spent at Disney elsewhere and see how it goes. That's because of everything - MM+, lack of new attractions, crowds, cost increases, paid events closing the parks (thus cutting into the value of my pass), loss of spontaneity, inability to eat on property without reserving 6 months out, etc.
lincolnryan
Member
Since I haven't been that much, the prices don't seem totally crazy to me. I actually remember my dad complaining about ticket prices over 25 years ago. I'm not saying they are not REALLY high, but I think I just expected it going in.
To me, the crowds (or specifically the lines) are not something that is a deal breaker. If you you pull your kids out of school, go during an off-peak time, and still have to wait in extremely long lines for Barnstormer, then forget about it. My kids really like Disney, but I think they'd be pretty happy going to Six Flags and a water park. Or even going to universal studios where you can bypass the line if you stay on property. Not to pull out the "I paid good money for my vacation" card, but I'm not going to pay obscene amounts of money to stand in line at Disney.
Of course, you'll have the Disney apologists out there like the chat people over at TP. If you tell them lines are too long, they say "Oh, I was there that day too. I got everything done...rope drop, TP, and FP...I was enjoying my dole whip by the time the crowds hit!"
To me, the crowds (or specifically the lines) are not something that is a deal breaker. If you you pull your kids out of school, go during an off-peak time, and still have to wait in extremely long lines for Barnstormer, then forget about it. My kids really like Disney, but I think they'd be pretty happy going to Six Flags and a water park. Or even going to universal studios where you can bypass the line if you stay on property. Not to pull out the "I paid good money for my vacation" card, but I'm not going to pay obscene amounts of money to stand in line at Disney.
Of course, you'll have the Disney apologists out there like the chat people over at TP. If you tell them lines are too long, they say "Oh, I was there that day too. I got everything done...rope drop, TP, and FP...I was enjoying my dole whip by the time the crowds hit!"