FastPass+ Chaos at MK today

[Captain Chaos]

I don't defend the failed product's failures. Lost Fastpasses, system crashes, inability to function as advertised, etc. are all unacceptable. I just object to the all-in criticism based on strawmen: Namely; misleading people into thinking that the only way to get on any ride without waiting four hours is to plan you day down to the second two months in advance.

Well, actually, the only way to experience any attraction today without any long wait is to plan your day down to the second months in advance. That isn't a strawman argument. It is the truth.

Let's examine:

You decide you want to go to WDW. You pick September 2015. Great. Book the hotel, buy the theme park tickets. Awesome. Next, you need to decide what you feel like having for breakfast, lunch or dinner six months in advance. I don't know what I want to eat tonight for dinner, let alone six months from now. So, basically, you are deciding what park you want to go to on which day six months in advance cause you need to book your dining around it. Great, you decided September 10 would be MK, September 11 would be DAK, September 12 would be DHS and September 13 would be Epcot. You make your ADRs: Crystal Palace, Yak n Yeti, Brown Derby, and Chefs de France. All 180 before your vacation is to start.

But wait, you are not done. 60 days in advance you now have to book your FPs. You have planned your theme park days already. You get online and book three FP's for each park. Picking the times, hoping they don't interfere with your already scheduled dining. You have your ADR times set, your ride times set. You just created an itinerary down to the minute, second if you want to go that far.

You wake up on the morning of September 11 and decide, I don't want to do DAK today. I want to go to Epcot. Let me cancel my Yak N Yeti ADR. Only, you can't without being charged. So, what to do? Take the charge or do a park you don't feel like doing?

Flexibility out the window.

 

[erasure fan1]

If you check the link I posted above, for a party of 4, 7DMT is currently booked for nearly a month, Anna pretty much solid to 61 days.

exactly, I saw that. I can't go to Disney in mid February, by myself, so the info posted in no way helps me. I have a pretty solid hunch that when I go this summer and I check the day before we go to the parks, no headliners will have FF+ available. No chance I am counting on a random day in February for 1 person with my money.

 

[Captain Chaos]

And YOU keep looking for problems in something that's not actually the worst thing ever. It's a problem now that your favorite attractions aren't the 3 most popular in the park? Seems silly.

You realize this is my first post in which I state the issues with FP in this thread right? Keep looking for problems that are not worst ever? When i'm spending thousands to visit WDW, and forced to book FPs for the most popular, and personally favorite rides, and they aren't available, yes it is a problem. If I wanted to FP Splash on a whim, and couldn't cause I changed my mind on the park I wanted to visit, yes that's a problem. If my only choices are rides I have no desire to ride or a princess meet and greet I have no desire to see, then yes that is a problem.

Under the old system, if I changed my mind and went to MK instead of DAK, I would have an equal chance of getting a FP for Splash. Now, I'm being punished cause I didn't follow my plans from two to six months out. Yes, that is a problem.

And welcome to WDWMagic. I'm sure you'll earn your paycheck from the WDC for every word you post.

 

[erasure fan1]

You wake up on the morning of September 11 and decide, I don't want to do DAK today. I want to go to Epcot. Let me cancel my Yak N Yeti ADR. Only, you can't without being charged. So, what to do? Take the charge or do a park you don't feel like doing?

Flexibility out the window.

Don't forget the fact that there is almost no chance to get a FP+ for test track soarin or most anyplace you would want to eat. Sunshine seasons and imagination here I come!!!

 

[Captain Chaos]

Don't forget the fact that there is almost no chance to get a FP+ for test track soarin or most anyplace you would want to eat. Sunshine seasons and imagination here I come!!!

But wait, just get to the park at opening. Ride TT and FP Soaring. BOOM!!!! Problem solved. But only, defenders were saying you no longer have to do this with FP+. No need to get to the park at opening. You can now sleep in and book FP for later in the day. Except, with Epcot. Cause, you know, you have to get to TT first thing upon opening or else wait an hour or more. Oh wait, single rider I forgot. Yep, that works perfect if you are adults without young children. If you have young children, single rider is out of the question. So now what? Wait an hour or not ride TT.

Yep, FP+ solved every issue ever!!!!

 

[CaptainAmerica]

When our kids were small, we used to wake them up early in the morning and say, "What park do you want to do today?" Then we'd hustle to be at that park at opening. That flexibility is no longer possible if you want to do multiple "e-ticket" attractions. This is a FACT.

Sorry that's just not true. I lived in Florida until about a year ago and used to go to the parks all the time. Forget going at opening, I could drive to the Magic Kingdom after work on a Friday and still get on Big Thunder, Space, and Splash all with room to watch the parade. This was true in spring break, summer break, whatever (not Christmas/Thanksgiving/Easter but those days are different animals entirely).

When you used to "hustle and get to the parks in the morning," did you get right on a ride? No, likely you went to a ride to get a Fastpass, then "hustled" to a different ride, then "hustled" back to the first ride to use said Fastpass. You STILL have the option to get to the park early and get on a few rides before the lines form. Bonus: You don't have to run back and forth from Frontierland to Tomorrowland all day long.

 

[tirian]

I admit, we worked the old FP system. We'd be there at rope drop, hit the big attractions and pick up morning FPs for the others. We'd do a large chunk of the Magic Kingdom before 1pm and then relax by the pool for a few hours before hitting a park for the evening. We weren't likely to get good FPs for that evening time but that was ok. We still found things to do with only minor waits. It was a good day. As an AP holder, I felt I was getting decent value for my pass. I wouldn't say "Great" or even "Good", but it was ok. Especially since I booked at least two trips with it, so I got about 20-25 days like this one. Good times.

But now? Not so much. We get our 3 FPs in advance. With the tier we can't get 3 quality attractions. So we're there at rope drop and get 1 big attraction in the morning, and the lines are already growing. We wait for a big attraction and use our FP for another. At this point it's mid-morning and the crowds are insane. Even attractions that were once walk-ons or short waits are packed. We use our other FPs and start looking for something, anything, that's "doable" without a lengthy wait. Good luck. When that crowded, the parks are just not that enjoyable to me, so we leave to grab lunch and hit the pool. When we return at night, it's the same story - lines everywhere. Very few attractions can be had for less than a 40 minute wait.

At the end of the day I add up the attractions I did versus the money I spent for the AP and think, "What the heck?" - and THEN you get into the problems I've had with MM+, problems on EVERY SINGLE TRIP I've taken since they started "testing" it, all the time spent in line trying to fix the problems. Ugh.

Exactly. This is reality for thousands of Guests every day.

There was no shame in "gaming" the old system; at least crowd flow patterns were still predictable throughout the day and everything wasn't jammed from 10am to close. Now every day feels busy at the MK.

This is what happens when people without park experience get promoted and start calling the shots.

 

[Disneydreamer23]

Exactly. This is reality for thousands of Guests every day.

There was no shame in "gaming" the old system; at least crowd flow patterns were still predictable throughout the day and everything wasn't jammed from 10am to close. Now every day feels busy at the MK.

This is what happens when people without park experience get promoted and start calling the shots.

You hit that right on the money!

 

[RSoxNo1]

I posted this in another thread but it's relevant here. The following Fastpasses are available tomorrow (one day in advance) at the Magic Kingdom: all of them.

Peter Pan's Flight is a C-ticket that has appropriate capacity for a C-ticket. The problem is, it inexplicably has D/E-ticket demand. Having said that, usually you can get same day availability in the morning for Fastpass+. Mine Train was underbuilt capacity wise and that's the biggest issue with it. It's a solid D-ticket attraction, but it's capacity is too low for that type of ride. If Disney continues to put out D/E-ticket rides with low capacity they are never going to be able to have Fastpass+ "work".

Fastpass+ would work very well with current capacities if everything had Little Mermaid level of demand vs. capacity.

 

[Wrangler-Rick]

You mean that HUGE chunk of real estate in every resort store which I have NEVER seen the least bit of shopper interest in - that one??

Yep, that be it!!!

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Well, actually, the only way to experience any attraction today without any long wait is to plan your day down to the second months in advance. That isn't a strawman argument. It is the truth.

Let's examine:

You decide you want to go to WDW. You pick September 2015. Great. Book the hotel, buy the theme park tickets. Awesome. Next, you need to decide what you feel like having for breakfast, lunch or dinner six months in advance. I don't know what I want to eat tonight for dinner, let alone six months from now. So, basically, you are deciding what park you want to go to on which day six months in advance cause you need to book your dining around it. Great, you decided September 10 would be MK, September 11 would be DAK, September 12 would be DHS and September 13 would be Epcot. You make your ADRs: Crystal Palace, Yak n Yeti, Brown Derby, and Chefs de France. All 180 before your vacation is to start.

But wait, you are not done. 60 days in advance you now have to book your FPs. You have planned your theme park days already. You get online and book three FP's for each park. Picking the times, hoping they don't interfere with your already scheduled dining. You have your ADR times set, your ride times set. You just created an itinerary down to the minute, second if you want to go that far.

You wake up on the morning of September 11 and decide, I don't want to do DAK today. I want to go to Epcot. Let me cancel my Yak N Yeti ADR. Only, you can't without being charged. So, what to do? Take the charge or do a park you don't feel like doing?

Flexibility out the window.

You're vastly misrepresenting the average WDW guest. They're not all miserable cynics. Most of us ENJOY the building anticipation of a trip to the World. I don't "have to" plan my dining and Fastpasses in advance, I "get to." I look forward to it. Enjoy it. Very few people pop out of bed on a WDW vacation and decide ad hoc what to do that day. They have clipboards and spreadsheets and touring plans and The Unofficial Guide. The know which parks have refurbs, which parks are crowded, which parks have EMH. They know to get straight to Toy Story if they don't want to wait all day. They know that Carousel of Progress is something to enjoy to get out of the heat of the afternoon. All of this planning was already being done by the average WDW guest. This system just allows it to be insourced to the place where your reservations, tickets, room keys, etc. already reside.

The "planner" guest was already doing this many months in advance, this just allows them the peace of mind to "lock it in." The "wing it" guest wasn't doing this and will continue to ignore it. FP+ is only "worse" for a very slim type of guest that was well-enough versed in the parks that they could do them efficiently without planning and that's a VERY small minority (namely hardcore people and cast members).

 

[erasure fan1]

Bonus: You don't have to run back and forth from Frontierland to Tomorrowland all day long.

While true for your first 3, after that, instead of running back and forth I now stand in a 20/30min line to hope I can get something of worth. At least doing it commando style I burned off all the churros and dole whips.

 

[Captain Chaos]

You're vastly misrepresenting the average WDW guest. They're not all miserable cynics. Most of us ENJOY the building anticipation of a trip to the World. I don't "have to" plan my dining and Fastpasses in advance, I "get to." I look forward to it. Enjoy it. Very few people pop out of bed on a WDW vacation and decide ad hoc what to do that day. They have clipboards and spreadsheets and touring plans and The Unofficial Guide. The know which parks have refurbs, which parks are crowded, which parks have EMH. They know to get straight to Toy Story if they don't want to wait all day. They know that Carousel of Progress is something to enjoy to get out of the heat of the afternoon. All of this planning was already being done by the average WDW guest. This system just allows it to be insourced to the place where your reservations, tickets, room keys, etc. already reside.

The "planner" guest was already doing this many months in advance, this just allows them the peace of mind to "lock it in." The "wing it" guest wasn't doing this and will continue to ignore it. FP+ is only "worse" for a very slim type of guest that was well-enough versed in the parks that they could do them efficiently without planning and that's a VERY small minority (namely hardcore people and cast members).

So you are an expert on the way people vacation? You have it on good authority to know exactly how the "typical" WDW guest vacations? You know for solid fact (and can back it up with proof) that very few WDW vacationers pop out of bed and decide, on a whim, what park to go to? Let's see the proof. Or are you blowing more smoke out of you know where to defend the failed FP+ and the horrible way WDW makes you book every second of every day?

You HAVE TO book ADRS or else you are shut out of the most popular, desirable restaurants. I guess you can not book an ADR and eat counter service if you so choose. But if you want to dine at Cinderella's Royal Table, you HAVE TO book an ADR. You don't get to, you HAVE TO. And if you are using clipboards and spreadsheets and touring plans and official or unofficial guides, you are ULTRA PLANNING. If you need any of the above to book a vacation, that is a chore and not really fun.

The people who do wing it are being punished, as I have stated. This new system is a failure. It makes booking and planning a WDW trip a second job, one you don't get paid for.

Enjoy your WDW vacation only if you book every second of your trip. Otherwise, good luck.

 

[Captain Chaos]

While true for your first 3, after that, instead of running back and forth I now stand in a 20/30min line to hope I can get something of worth. At least doing it commando style I burned off all the churros and dole whips.

If someone was running back and forth all day long, then that person was an idiot.

under the old system, if I walked into the MK at 10, and headed over to Splash, only to find a wait time of 120 minutes, then I had a choice to FP it. I'd see the return times and would make sure the return time worked for me. If so, i'd get a paper fast pass and move on to the next attraction. I wouldn't go Tomorrowland if I knew Splash was the first ride I wanted to go on. I wouldn't be running from Tomorrowland to Frontierland. I'd head right to Frontierland, either wait stand by or grab a FP for Splash, then go over to BTMRR. If that wait was too long, I'd head into Adventureland, or staying in Frontierland, to Country Bear. If my FP return time was 5:00, I'd go enjoy the other parts of the park, slowly making my way around. Then, as the time approached 5:00, I'd make my way back over to Frontierland. No hustle involved. In fact, I may even work my way over to the Toontown, or now Storybook Circus train station and take a slow moving, relaxing, ride on the Walt Disney World Railroad over to Frontierland.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

You HAVE TO book ADRS or else you are shut out of the most popular, desirable restaurants. I guess you can not book an ADR and eat counter service if you so choose. But if you want to dine at Cinderella's Royal Table, you HAVE TO book an ADR. You don't get to, you HAVE TO. And if you are using clipboards and spreadsheets and touring plans and official or unofficial guides, you are ULTRA PLANNING. If you need any of the above to book a vacation, that is a chore and not really fun.

Let's imagine a magical world in which ADRs do not exist. In that world, dining at Cinderella's Royal Table would mean lining up at the hostess' table at park opening in the hopes of securing a dinner reservation. See Mrs. Wilkes' Dining Room in Savannah, Georgia for an example. People start lining up for lunch two or three hours early, and the restaurant is a hole in the wall on a back road, not in the middle of the castle at the Magic Kingdom. When demand exceeds supply, you have to pick and choose who gets the product. The only ways to accomplish that are by raising prices or first-come, first-served. Assuming you don't want them to raise prices (more), then first-come, first-served is the order of the day. All this process (ADRs or FP+) does is relocate the waiting on a first-come, first-served product to an at-home process rather than eating up your time when you're actually in the parks.

 

[wdisney9000]

 

[CaptainAmerica]

under the old system, if I walked into the MK at 10, and headed over to Splash, only to find a wait time of 120 minutes, then I had a choice to FP it. I'd see the return times and would make sure the return time worked for me.

This is another area where FP+ increases flexibility. Under the old system, you were TOLD by the Fastpass kiosk what time your Fastpass would be. That one hour window was set in stone, dining reservations or parade times be damned.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Let's imagine a magical world in which ADRs do not exist. In that world, dining at Cinderella's Royal Table would mean lining up at the hostess' table at park opening in the hopes of securing a dinner reservation. See Mrs. Wilkes' Dining Room in Savannah, Georgia for an example. People start lining up for lunch two or three hours early, and the restaurant is a hole in the wall on a back road, not in the middle of the castle at the Magic Kingdom. When demand exceeds supply, you have to pick and choose who gets the product. The only ways to accomplish that are by raising prices or first-come, first-served. Assuming you don't want them to raise prices (more), then first-come, first-served is the order of the day. All this process (ADRs or FP+) does is relocate the waiting on a first-come, first-served product to an at-home process rather than eating up your time when you're actually in the parks.

I guess u r new to the parks or have you been to them when ADRs didn't exist?

There was once a day when you could actually enjoy WDW without micro planning your bathroom breaks. If I wanted to dine in a restaurant in Epcot, I'd approach a kiosk DAY OF, and book with a CM, DAY OF, and never had an issue. Or, I would be able to walk up, and get a seat, sure with a minimal wait. Today, you HAVE TO book 6 months out, cannot walk up, and cannot change plans. Never had an issue. Unlike today.

 

[Wrangler-Rick]

You're vastly misrepresenting the average WDW guest. They're not all miserable cynics. Most of us ENJOY the building anticipation of a trip to the World. I don't "have to" plan my dining and Fastpasses in advance, I "get to." I look forward to it. Enjoy it. Very few people pop out of bed on a WDW vacation and decide ad hoc what to do that day. They have clipboards and spreadsheets and touring plans and The Unofficial Guide. The know which parks have refurbs, which parks are crowded, which parks have EMH. They know to get straight to Toy Story if they don't want to wait all day. They know that Carousel of Progress is something to enjoy to get out of the heat of the afternoon. All of this planning was already being done by the average WDW guest. This system just allows it to be insourced to the place where your reservations, tickets, room keys, etc. already reside.

The "planner" guest was already doing this many months in advance, this just allows them the peace of mind to "lock it in." The "wing it" guest wasn't doing this and will continue to ignore it. FP+ is only "worse" for a very slim type of guest that was well-enough versed in the parks that they could do them efficiently without planning and that's a VERY small minority (namely hardcore people and cast members).

Really??? That was not my observations when I was there in last December or last March, or in December 2013. I think you are overstating the number of planner guests. I think that was obvious, just by the number of folks in the lobby of the Poly complaining about all the construction and the fact that they didn't know about it.

I hate having to plan that far in advance, but I know if I don't do it, I won't be eating at Le Cellier. For our last trip, I got up at midnight when our window opened to "lock in" fast passes for 2 people for SDMT and guess what - nothing available our first week, I was lucky to get them for the following week. Sorry, no exaggeration, my actual experience. The system forces 2nd tier passes for rides that don't need passes, so we ended up just letting them expire because we walked in while we were in the area and didn't want to run back across the park to do them during the window. Forget even trying to use the app inside the park - I'll bet the internet in Iraq is faster and more reliable than what I experienced. We did mention all of our experiences in the 4 surveys we were emailed after our stay and of course, never heard any response....

 

[pax_65]

I could drive to the Magic Kingdom after work on a Friday and still get on Big Thunder, Space, and Splash all with room to watch the parade.

This has definitely not been my experience. What were the wait times for those attractions? On my last two trips (mid May and mid October, when we usually go), standby wait times for the mountains were all beyond 60 minutes most of the day. Heck, I remember in particular seeing Kali River Rapids at 130 minutes and just being astounded. I actually thought it was 30 minutes, I initially missed the "1". I've never seen waits like that at Kali pre-MM+.

When you used to "hustle and get to the parks in the morning," did you get right on a ride? No, likely you went to a ride to get a Fastpass, then "hustled" to a different ride, then "hustled" back to the first ride to use said Fastpass. You STILL have the option to get to the park early and get on a few rides before the lines form. Bonus: You don't have to run back and forth from Frontierland to Tomorrowland all day long.

In my experience, the standby lines fill up faster than pre-MM+, so the "first thing in the morning" strategy isn't nearly as effective.

BEFORE:

Arrive before opening.
Get FP #1, do standby attraction #1
Do FP attraction #1, get FP #2
Do standby attraction #2
Do FP attraction #2, Get a FP #3
Do standby attraction #3
Do FP attraction #3

At this point, it's late-morning so things are getting crowded. We'd usually just walk around looking for short lines, checking FP return times and hope to get lucky. We usually get at least 2 more attractions, granted not necessarily the most popular ones at this point. Then we leave by 1pm or so for some lunch and pool time.

Adding it up, that's 8 attractions in a morning including the most popular e-tickets, with no prior planning whatsoever. I didn't mind the hustling, since it allowed me to rest by the pool for 2-3 hours during the heat of the day. We left the park feeling accomplished and satisfied.

AFTER:

Arrive before opening.
Do standby attraction #1
Do FP #1

At this point, the standby lines are already filling up and wait times exceed 30-40 minutes for popular attractions.

Wait for standby attraction #2
Do previously-scheduled FP #2 and #3 (if we could get 3 FPs in the morning, I'd say probably half the time we abandoned or tried to change the 3rd FP because it was in the afternoon or it was for an attraction we didn't really care about doing.)

At this point the lines are long. We might manage to do a less popular attraction on our way out the door (Imagination, for example).

That's 5-6 attractions but because of the tiers it does not include all the popular e-tickets - some of them are generally missed because we didn't want to wait over an hour. That's with time spent on advanced planning (again not even mentioning the time spent in line trying to fix MM+ issues.)

We pretty much always leave the park feeling frustrated and a little bit sad.