Fastpass 3

[Goofyernmost]

Perhaps I have an "advantage" there with knowing so many foreigner first timers.

Could be quite different in experiences for sure.

 

[marni1971]

Could be quite different in experiences for sure.

Trying to explain to someone what a Toy Story Mania actually is, let alone why they need a thing called a Fastpass for it.....

 

[Goofyernmost]

Trying to explain to someone what a Toy Story Mania actually is, let alone why they need a thing called a Fastpass for it.....

Well, that particular thing would be a problem for everyone, even those that have experienced it.

 

[celluloid]

Except that the vast majority of guests love it. Nice try though.


How do you think "profit" happens? In order for the guests to fork over more money, Disney has to make them happy. You can't generate profit against the will of your customer. It's self-evident that increased profit means increased guest satisfaction or people would stop going.

Profit happens from good product or service. You proved my point with your reasoning above, not to mention you are coming off very condescending.. MDE has not been a success. Generating a profit against the will is exactly what they have tried to do. That is why many don't even know it exists or get confused later. Billions. Billions of dollars wasted.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Profit happens from good product or service. You proved my point with your reasoning above, not to mention you are coming off very condescending.. MDE has not been a success. Generating a profit against the will is exactly what they have tried to do. That is why many don't even know it exists or get confused later. Billions. Billions of dollars wasted.

Actually, profit happens by charging more for that product and/or service then it costs to produce it. Good product and service may be a reason for popularity, but, willingness of people to spend lots of money for it create the profit.

 

[celluloid]

Actually, profit happens by charging more for that product and/or service then it costs to produce it. Good product and service may be a reason for popularity, but, willingness of people to spend lots of money for it create the profit.

In this case the profit is people spending money instead of waiting in a line with no opportunities to spend money, which instead, they wait in another longer line that is longer because of the system itself. So billions of dollar invested with little return. The point remains.

 

[Max Smart]

If you've ever actually used Fastpass+, you'd know that the notion of "running around following a schedule" is false. There was far more running around when you had to go to Space Mountain to pick up a fastpass, then cross the park to Big Thunder to ride it, then walk all the way back to Tomorrowland to use your Fastpass for space. If you space your Fastpasses reasonably, they fit quite nicely in a normal around-the-wheel touring plan for the Magic Kingdom.

The FastPass never was quicker than the posted queue time, so I think the two were tied. I disagree on your assessment - I have been two times with FastPass+ and found it very annoying for a number of reasons:
1. Having to be at a particular ride at a particular time is annoying, I like to be spontaneous. It was easier to check into a ride, visit nearby stores/restaurants/unpopular rides while waiting.
2. It is frustrating finding a ride you have a FP+ for idle, but you don't want to do it because you have a FP later. Meanwhile the usually idle ride you didn't FP is swamped, and you have no choice but to wait in a hour-long line.
3. The scheduling doesn't allow for park-hopping.
4. It increases traffic between park sections, creating bottlenecks. With original FP people tended to linger around a section for a while waiting for their ride, rather than racing section to section.
5. FastPass+ reservations are tied up months in advance by people who might not even use them. For example, a local passholder might schedule the top rides for every day, just in case he wants to go that day. Or you might schedule a Mine Train ride but then get a reservation at a popular restaurant (which is even harder to come by) that conflicts.
6. Like I said, if you don't "know" the parks, picking FastPasses is difficult, as you don't know how you will want your day to flow or what a reasonable schedule looks like.
7. It's really hard to juggle restaurant reservations + ride reservations + show times + unexpected things.

When the FAQ said "Won't this make my vacation feel too scheduled and rigid?", the answer should have said "YES".

 

[sxeensweet]

Which, really, is the core of the disconnect between this community and the average guest. Like you, the average guest generally enjoys the process of planning their WDW vacation. The MDX process is not a burden to them, it's a privilege. Conversely, the superfans of WDW Magic are much more likely to be locals, passholders, Cast Members, DVC members, and other frequent visitors. Those folks typically prefer a more spur-of-the-moment WDW experience, so the planning doesn't have the same magic for them.

Great points I agree but I'm a DVC member , Passholder, etc and still love all the pre planning aspects. I thouroughly enjoy doing the MDX processes and such. I wouldn't have it any other way even if I went on a spur of the moment trip.

 

[rct247]

The different types of Guests when it comes to FastPass:

The No-Nothings

• Completely Clueless - These Guests spend their whole day just standing in regular lines. They typically don't even know that "Disney World" has 4 separate theme parks. They sometimes think Universal and Sea World are part of Disney, and they also have never heard of household names like "Space Mountain". Some of this group also come to think that you have to have a FastPass in order to ride at all.
• The Confused - These Guests know about a a system to skip lines, but often get it confused with other systems at other parks. They often arrive thinking they can pay for an all day FastPass or that it is good for anything they want at any time. These Guests are especially confused when Cast Members tell them they have 3 FastPasses to start with and just assume they can walk up and use them anywhere. These Guests also think that everything has FastPass including things like Country Bear Jamboree.

The Average Guest

• Change Haters - These are often return visitors that just hate change. They get frustrated easily with FastPass+ and always recall the old days when regular FastPass was in every aspect better than what we have now. These Guests typically claim that they have to plan their whole day out in advance now, when in reality they fail to mention how they used to have to get up super early to make sure they get a good time for rides like TSMM, Soarin, etc.
• The Planers - These Guests have bought into the new system and are the ones that make their selections in advance as early as possible. They don't always love FastPass+, but they know how to make it work for them. These Guests still only the basics of the system and can easily make mistakes. They often are frustrated with no being able to do everything on their phones.
• The Cheaters - These are the Guests think that know how to work the system and try to manipulate it in a way to cheat the system. They book half of their party at specific attractions and arrive to expect them all to get in often claiming that the app wasn't working or someone else messed up their FastPasses. They also show up early and late for their choices and get angry when they are turned away. Sadly, these Guests can get away with a lot.

The Die-Hards

• Pro-Lovers - These are the frequent Guests that know the ins and outs of the system. They love it and they know how to work it. They also know how to cheat it, but are willing to admit defeat when caught. These Guests know which attractions to get in advance and which attractions are a waste of time.
• Pro-Haters - These frequent Guests are similar to the Change Haters, but still know the ins and outs of FastPass+ to make it work to them...they just don't like it still.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The FastPass never was quicker than the posted queue time, so I think the two were tied.

I don't care what you think because it's not a matter of opinion. You are factually incorrect.

1. Having to be at a particular ride at a particular time is annoying, I like to be spontaneous. It was easier to check into a ride, visit nearby stores/restaurants/unpopular rides while waiting.

A paper ticket telling you to be at a certain ride at a certain time is no more spontaneous than your smartphone telling you to be at a certain ride at a certain time. It's the exact same thing, just a different form factor. FP+ is actually more spontaneous because you cut out the time it takes you to walk to get the paper Fastpass in the first place.

2. It is frustrating finding a ride you have a FP+ for idle, but you don't want to do it because you have a FP later. Meanwhile the usually idle ride you didn't FP is swamped, and you have no choice but to wait in a hour-long line.

No different than the old system.

3. The scheduling doesn't allow for park-hopping.

But it you don't have to arrive at rope drop to get good Fastpasses. Obviously there are tradeoffs.

4. It increases traffic between park sections, creating bottlenecks. With original FP people tended to linger around a section for a while waiting for their ride, rather than racing section to section.

Not only are you wrong, but you have it exactly backwards. There's zero crisscrossing with FP+ unless you're scheduling all your Fastpasses back-to-back, which would be a stupid way to go about it and is your own fault. If you schedule your FP+ a few hours apart, there's plenty of time to linger in the various lands and areas. It's complete BS that there wasn't crisscrossing under the legacy system. People were going back and forth from Hollywood Boulevard to Toy Story, from Tomorrowland to Frontierland, from Test Track to Soarin, and from Kilimanjaro to Everest. For the most part these things are on opposite ends of the park. You need to retrieve your paper ticket, go do the other major attraction, then return to the first attraction to use your Fastpass. You're completely wrong about guest behavior under the old and new system. You seem to think that they way YOU did things is the way most people did things, but you're mistaken. "Lingering around a section while waiting for a FP" time is NOT how people toured. They ran from headliner to headliner.

5. FastPass+ reservations are tied up months in advance by people who might not even use them. For example, a local passholder might schedule the top rides for every day, just in case he wants to go that day. Or you might schedule a Mine Train ride but then get a reservation at a popular restaurant (which is even harder to come by) that conflicts.

You are utterly clueless. Passholders have strict limits on how many Fastpasses they can hold at once, and they are unable to book far in advance without a resort reservation. Also, it's a complete myth that things book up "months in advance." I just checked. I can get Fastpasses for Thunder, Space, and Splash TOMORROW if I want to. That's next-day, not "months in advance."

6. Like I said, if you don't "know" the parks, picking FastPasses is difficult, as you don't know how you will want your day to flow or what a reasonable schedule looks like.

This problem was worse under the old system. A clueless guest is clueless regardless of the way things are set up. At least this way, they're making their plans in front of the computer where they can at least Google things.

7. It's really hard to juggle restaurant reservations + ride reservations + show times + unexpected things.

Except under the old way, you were FORCED to take whatever Fastpass time the computer was spitting out. It's a heck of a lot easier to coordinate dining and Fastpasses when you have time to think it through and you're in the comfort of your own home. If you got to a legacy Fastpass kiosk and the time didn't work for you, you had no choice. Now, you can pick and choose your time slots.

 

[anchorman314]

3. The scheduling doesn't allow for park-hopping.

I'd actually argue the exact opposite is true. With the current system, I can schedule a FP+ for TSMM at 6pm. If I so choose, I could then go to MK that morning, ride a bunch of rides, go get a late lunch at Earl of Sandwich, then go to DHS for my 6pm FP+. Under the old system, I'd go to the MK in the morning, ride a bunch of rides, go get a late lunch at EoS, then go to DHS and find that: a) all of the TSMM FPs are gone for the day, and b) there's a 75 minute wait.

Sure, you can't schedule FP+ in 2 parks on 1 day ahead of time, but with the introduction of 4th+ FP+ booking on the phone, perhaps hopping FP+ is coming.

 

[NelsonRD]

Why are we still having discussions about FastPass+ vs the legacy system?

 

[PinnySmart]

Not to jump into that fight, but if you aren't intimately familiar with the Disney Parks, scheduling your whole day via FastPass+ isn't really practical. As for the way the original FastPass operates, maybe I was misinformed because I went during slow times of year (so the FastPass time was the same as the queue time), and the fact they said on the Magic Express video that the system "saves your place in line". Putting that aside, there's no reason to dismiss my suggestion out of hand - what would stop it from working this way I described going forward? That is, you can FastPass with a small time penalty (75 minute FP for a 60 minute queue, for example) if you prefer not to be running around following a schedule, or if you prefer the scheduled approach, you can book 3 rides in advance and spend your day trying to be where you're supposed to be at the scheduled time.

There are systems in other parks that claim to just hold you place in line. Six Flags describes some tiers of their Flash Pass that way. This was not the case at Disney. I'm sure Disney researched the mess out of all of the different ways Fastlass+ could have been offered. Your way would just not work. So glad you were not in charge lol.

 

[Goofyernmost]

The FastPass never was quicker than the posted queue time, so I think the two were tied. I disagree on your assessment - I have been two times with FastPass+ and found it very annoying for a number of reasons:
1. Having to be at a particular ride at a particular time is annoying, I like to be spontaneous. It was easier to check into a ride, visit nearby stores/restaurants/unpopular rides while waiting.
2. It is frustrating finding a ride you have a FP+ for idle, but you don't want to do it because you have a FP later. Meanwhile the usually idle ride you didn't FP is swamped, and you have no choice but to wait in a hour-long line.
3. The scheduling doesn't allow for park-hopping.
4. It increases traffic between park sections, creating bottlenecks. With original FP people tended to linger around a section for a while waiting for their ride, rather than racing section to section.
5. FastPass+ reservations are tied up months in advance by people who might not even use them. For example, a local passholder might schedule the top rides for every day, just in case he wants to go that day. Or you might schedule a Mine Train ride but then get a reservation at a popular restaurant (which is even harder to come by) that conflicts.
6. Like I said, if you don't "know" the parks, picking FastPasses is difficult, as you don't know how you will want your day to flow or what a reasonable schedule looks like.
7. It's really hard to juggle restaurant reservations + ride reservations + show times + unexpected things.

When the FAQ said "Won't this make my vacation feel too scheduled and rigid?", the answer should have said "YES".

I'm sorry, I don't want to be blunt here, but, there is absolutely nothing in that post that isn't exactly the same, except better, then the old FP or is absolutely untrue.

1. Old FP required you to use a specific window and you didn't even get to have a choice. Not real spontaneous!
2. Exactly the same no matter what the system.
3. Certainly does. You decide what your first park will be. Set up for Fastpass for that time frame, and then park hop and "attempt" to get others for your new location when you get there. Park hopping before almost always got you to the next park after the old FP's had run out.
4. Actually works exactly the opposite of that and you aren't making second trips to those areas to get a FP. You know where your locations are and plan easily around it.
5. Not really months, but, who would set up FP's and not use them. What would be the purpose. It actually insures that most people will be in a certain park on a certain day. You have to use the first three before you get others.
6. How is that different then arriving at a park the first time and not knowing where things are and having to find them to get the old FP. You are no better off with that then just planning for what rides you might like. Then all you have to do is ask a direction, everything else is the same.
7. Actually a whole lot easier because it informs you of what things you want to do overlap each other and allows you to change one or the other to fit in with what you want to do.

Sorry, but, unless you are thinking about back when you got a FP and they allowed you to use it whenever you wanted, there is no advantage to the old way. That happened by accident and was changed at least a year before FP+ came out. It was never meant to work that way to begin with, they just got lazy and let it happen.

 

[Max Smart]

If FastPass was never tied to the queue times, then I logically should have occasionally come across a situation where I could grab a FastPass and get on quicker than the current queue time (ie, get on 30 minutes from now when the wait time says 60).

It sounds like you guys who like it (and like flaming those who disagree) go to the parks during June or holidays, when the FastPass was hitting the maximum-issued-pass limits. My experience was that I arrive at the park whenever we feel like it, and if I see a line I don't want to wait in, I grabbed a FastPass, which was usually 0-15 minutes longer than if I'd waited in the line. Then I visited rides (like Mickey's Philharmagic) that never have a wait, ate snacks, watched the ducks, watched street entertainers, shopped, etc in the general area until it was time for my FastPass.

The current system has split everyone into 2 groups: the veterans, who have FastPass+ reservations and are busily racing between them (us this trip), trying to figure out if they have time to wait out another ride in between reservations; and the unprepared, (us last year) who spend their day waiting in several 75 minutes queues. Neither of these groups has time for shopping, snacking, drinking, professional photos, or any of the other extra-cost offerings. Hence the "save my place in line" system is more profitable - queue space is cheaper than extra ride capacity, but having the visitor patronizing a bar or snack cart is preferable to the queue from the point of view of both customer and Disney.

I noticed they actually seem to have a sort of system as I describe in place - I saw twice (and overheard someone talking about) a paper mini-paper-form the line attendants were giving some families with small children, which I believe may be sort of a "save my place in line" ticket. I wonder if that's a transition from the old system (for those who arrived and realized they weren't going to be able to enjoy their trip since they didn't schedule the whole thing in advance), or if it's a pilot into a system as I've described...

 

[Goofyernmost]

I noticed they actually seem to have a sort of system as I describe in place - I saw twice (and overheard someone talking about) a paper mini-paper-form the line attendants were giving some families with small children, which I believe may be sort of a "save my place in line" ticket. I wonder if that's a transition from the old system (for those who arrived and realized they weren't going to be able to enjoy their trip since they didn't schedule the whole thing in advance), or if it's a pilot into a system as I've described...

What you seem to be describing is the DAS system for people with disabilities, not the regular system. That came into affect after a great deal of abuse by people because it was so free and open. Now, it's simple, but, more restrained. They go to an attraction show them the DAS and they get a paper pass that is in line with the current wait time. That means they don't have to stand in line for that time, so you are correct, it is a save my place situation, but, for special needs, not just small children. It is wildly more fair and yet accommodating most reasonable situations and less subject to abuse.

 

[EOD K9]

I'd actually argue the exact opposite is true. With the current system, I can schedule a FP+ for TSMM at 6pm. If I so choose, I could then go to MK that morning, ride a bunch of rides, go get a late lunch at Earl of Sandwich, then go to DHS for my 6pm FP+. Under the old system, I'd go to the MK in the morning, ride a bunch of rides, go get a late lunch at EoS, then go to DHS and find that: a) all of the TSMM FPs are gone for the day, and b) there's a 75 minute wait.

Sure, you can't schedule FP+ in 2 parks on 1 day ahead of time, but with the introduction of 4th+ FP+ booking on the phone, perhaps hopping FP+ is coming.

This has nothing to do with the topic....I'm just giving a shout out to Earl of Sandwich.

 

[rct247]

I'm just gonna leave this here...

http://casabona.org/2016/03/why-fastpass-shouldnt-run-your-disney-vacation-a-guide-to-magic-kingdom/

 

[ninjaprincesst]

I don't know where you get that the legacy fastpass was tied to the attraction wait time, it was determined by the number of fastpasses given out for a time period when that number had been given out the return frame changed by 5 minute interval for example if the first fastpass return time was 9:00 to 10:00 once that allotted number was given out the return window changed to 9:05 to 10:05. I have seen numerous times at 10:00am where the Toy Story or Soarin standby line had a 90 minute wait but the fatpass return time was 7:00 or later or sometimes they were all already give out.

 

[Retroman40]

The different types of Guests when it comes to FastPass:

The No-Nothings

• Completely Clueless - These Guests spend their whole day just standing in regular lines. They typically don't even know that "Disney World" has 4 separate theme parks. They sometimes think Universal and Sea World are part of Disney, and they also have never heard of household names like "Space Mountain". Some of this group also come to think that you have to have a FastPass in order to ride at all.
• The Confused - These Guests know about a a system to skip lines, but often get it confused with other systems at other parks. They often arrive thinking they can pay for an all day FastPass or that it is good for anything they want at any time. These Guests are especially confused when Cast Members tell them they have 3 FastPasses to start with and just assume they can walk up and use them anywhere. These Guests also think that everything has FastPass including things like Country Bear Jamboree.

The Average Guest

• Change Haters - These are often return visitors that just hate change. They get frustrated easily with FastPass+ and always recall the old days when regular FastPass was in every aspect better than what we have now. These Guests typically claim that they have to plan their whole day out in advance now, when in reality they fail to mention how they used to have to get up super early to make sure they get a good time for rides like TSMM, Soarin, etc.
• The Planers - These Guests have bought into the new system and are the ones that make their selections in advance as early as possible. They don't always love FastPass+, but they know how to make it work for them. These Guests still only the basics of the system and can easily make mistakes. They often are frustrated with no being able to do everything on their phones.
• The Cheaters - These are the Guests think that know how to work the system and try to manipulate it in a way to cheat the system. They book half of their party at specific attractions and arrive to expect them all to get in often claiming that the app wasn't working or someone else messed up their FastPasses. They also show up early and late for their choices and get angry when they are turned away. Sadly, these Guests can get away with a lot.

The Die-Hards

• Pro-Lovers - These are the frequent Guests that know the ins and outs of the system. They love it and they know how to work it. They also know how to cheat it, but are willing to admit defeat when caught. These Guests know which attractions to get in advance and which attractions are a waste of time.
• Pro-Haters - These frequent Guests are similar to the Change Haters, but still know the ins and outs of FastPass+ to make it work to them...they just don't like it still.

You nailed it!