Fast pass plus

[flynnibus]

Funny because most of the complaints are about price hikes and quality.

Price hike threads are like death and taxes.. they are unavoidable. There is no two sides to the price hike threads.. everyone just complains. FP however.. brings out the nasty. My opinion is DLR people hate on it more because it doesn't fit their visiting patterns, and because it was implemented so poorly in the space constrained DL.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Price hike threads are like death and taxes.. they are unavoidable. There is no two sides to the price hike threads.. everyone just complains. FP however.. brings out the nasty. My opinion is DLR people hate on it more because it doesn't fit their visiting patterns, and because it was implemented so poorly in the space constrained DL.

Hhhmm, makes sense, I guess.

 

[thomas998]

Actually, I'm hearing something like that from a few places.
Not sure if its getting lost in translation or what, but the idea of day guests paying for FP should not be overlooked.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them start charging for a fastpass... it would seem like easy money to any bean counter looking at the bottom line. Why give away a free perk if you can charge someone something for it.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Although I like park improvements, I'll readily admit that if WDW maintained quality levels from 20 years ago and slowed down on price hikes (most recently another 7.5% for MYW, 10% for AP, and 12.5% for DDP) I'd be one happy camper. Gee, I might even be less paranoid about FP+.

WDW complainers and DLR complainers are different. The DLR complainers will complain and talk down about pretty much any and everything. Wait times, CMs, broken things, tacky things, people pin trading, the weather, Ariel's hair looking like an ice cream cone, the CG effects in Mermaid, merchandise, the windows on BVS and MS... Just today, in Dateline Disneyland the author was talking about how tacky and pathetic these big bows and gigantic bubbles in Downtown Disney are (they really are). WDW complainers mainly complain about broken effects and just broken things in general. Maintenence, pretty much.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

My posts (unless quoted) are always my own thoughts and output. I have a strong disdain for those who plagiarize others because of my strong beliefs on valuing independent thought.

I couldn't agree more! My posts too (unless quoted) are always my own thoughts and output. I too have a strong disdain for those who plagiarize others because of my strong beliefs on valuing independent thought.

 

[GoofGoof]

I couldn't agree more! My posts too (unless quoted) are always my own thoughts and output. I too have a strong disdain for those who plagiarize others because of my strong beliefs on valuing independent thought.

I'm too lazy to come up with an original thought so I just liked yours.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I'm too lazy to come up with an original thought so I just liked yours.

Yay!
But just share with us some of your own thoughts about FP+! Here is some random original thoughts and output of mine:

Things will be DIFFERENT from what they are now.. but are these 'problems'? I'm not so quick to jump. Honestly I think most of the problems are not with the features - but the level of user interaction the system will require. The more steps involved, the greater the chance for 'stupid human tricks' as we call them or flat out bugs. Basically, complexity adds potential for traps.

Problems like.. what will the backup look like at the FP+ entrances? People used to argue CMs can't check the FP ticket closer because it would cause traffic issues. These RFID terminals are gonna cause serious traffic issues at high volume attractions. It's gonna look like the gate at the airport when everyone tries to go through the single checkpoint with their boarding pass.

On the flipside.. nearly everyone complaint people have about FP
- knowing if its available
- walking to the attraction to find no more FP available
- walking to the attraction to find the return time incompatible
- 'all gone before I get there'
- late returns causing surges
- inequality in usage by those who know how to game the system
- 'too many FPs...'

All of these are addressed by the FP+ system. A point people are so quick to overlook..

 

[GoofGoof]

Yay!
But just share with us some of your own thoughts about FP+! Here is some random original thoughts and output of mine:

Things will be DIFFERENT from what they are now.. but are these 'problems'? I'm not so quick to jump. Honestly I think most of the problems are not with the features - but the level of user interaction the system will require. The more steps involved, the greater the chance for 'stupid human tricks' as we call them or flat out bugs. Basically, complexity adds potential for traps.

Problems like.. what will the backup look like at the FP+ entrances? People used to argue CMs can't check the FP ticket closer because it would cause traffic issues. These RFID terminals are gonna cause serious traffic issues at high volume attractions. It's gonna look like the gate at the airport when everyone tries to go through the single checkpoint with their boarding pass.

On the flipside.. nearly everyone complaint people have about FP
- knowing if its available
- walking to the attraction to find no more FP available
- walking to the attraction to find the return time incompatible
- 'all gone before I get there'
- late returns causing surges
- inequality in usage by those who know how to game the system
- 'too many FPs...'

All of these are addressed by the FP+ system. A point people are so quick to overlook..

OK, here goes:
I do really hope they can work out the kinks and some of the traffic issues before my next trip.

I do like the idea of booking reserved space for parades and/or fireworks. Nothing is more annoying than waiting for a parade for an hour while trying to "hold your ground". I posted this in the illuminations thread, but the parades and fireworks already have a set start time so it's not like you can be spontaneous and catch illuminations at 8Pm tonight instead of 9Pm. It's at 9PM anyway and if I know that I am going to be in EPCOT that day anyway by 60 days out (which I will since I will have an ADR at some restaurant) then I book a reserved Illuminations spot with 1 of my FP+ reservations and now I dont have to worry about lining up an hour+ early for the show. I guess I am a planner anyway by nature so I don't have as much heartburn as some over reserving FP+ ahead of time. Since you will most likely be limited to 4 or less FP+ reservations per day it's not like you have to plan out every minute of your day. To me it doesn't seem much different than FP as far as limiting your ability to be spontaneous. I wonder what the critics of FP+ thought of regular FP when it came out. Probably a lot of similar worries/complaints/criticism.

I still think the whole nextgen thing seems to be a lot of money to spend for what we are actually getting, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt for now until the whole picture is revealed.

 

[dreamscometrue]

I didn't see this posted here. Sorry if it's posted elsewhere. I like it.

From JeffLange:

 

[JWG]

I'm just super excited. Booked my fast pass+ window to book my vacation to WDW. Thank goodness, who wants to hold on the phone when they could be holding on the interwebs to reserve a time to hold on the phone. Magical. Plus, the wife and I just made an Applebee's reservation for June 21 at 4pm. We're stoked. Cannot wait.

 

[nytimez]

I didn't see this posted here. Sorry if it's posted elasewhere. I like it.

From JeffLange:

1) That looks every bit as bad as I imagined. Possibly worse.

2) People already stare at the normal fast pass machines as if the phrase "INSERT PARK TICKET HERE" is written in ancient Greek. I can't imagine what it's going to be like waiting behind these people as they navigate these FP+ machines.

In any case, this is very magical - if you enjoy things like ATM banking and self-checkout kiosks.

 

[flynnibus]

Hhhmm, makes sense, I guess.

In case you want to stroll down memory lane some...

http://micechat.com/forums/disneyland-resort/8361-why-fastpass-hate.html
http://micechat.com/forums/disneyland-resort/54473-improving-fastpass-system.html
http://micechat.com/forums/disneyland-resort/163040-argument-against-fastpass.html
http://micechat.com/forums/disneyland-resort/144776-get-rid-fastpass-forever.html
http://micechat.com/forums/disneyla...-will-disney-get-rid-latest-rumor-resort.html
http://micechat.com/forums/disneyla...ou-do-improve-fastpass-disneyland-resort.html

That's just a sampling.. It's really a top 5 topic in terms of 'what will set off a bomb...'

 

[captainkidd]

1) That looks every bit as bad as I imagined. Possibly worse.

2) People already stare at the normal fast pass machines as if the phrase "INSERT PARK TICKET HERE" is written in ancient Greek. I can't imagine what it's going to be like waiting behind these people as they navigate these FP+ machines.

In any case, this is very magical - if you enjoy things like ATM banking and self-checkout kiosks.

I agree - This is absurd. I can only imagine the lines that this will create.

 

[Californian Elitist]

In case you want to stroll down memory lane some...

http://micechat.com/forums/disneyland-resort/8361-why-fastpass-hate.html
http://micechat.com/forums/disneyland-resort/54473-improving-fastpass-system.html
http://micechat.com/forums/disneyland-resort/163040-argument-against-fastpass.html
http://micechat.com/forums/disneyland-resort/144776-get-rid-fastpass-forever.html
http://micechat.com/forums/disneyla...-will-disney-get-rid-latest-rumor-resort.html
http://micechat.com/forums/disneyla...ou-do-improve-fastpass-disneyland-resort.html

That's just a sampling.. It's really a top 5 topic in terms of 'what will set off a bomb...'

Thanks for the links.

 

[COProgressFan]

1) That looks every bit as bad as I imagined. Possibly worse.

2) People already stare at the normal fast pass machines as if the phrase "INSERT PARK TICKET HERE" is written in ancient Greek. I can't imagine what it's going to be like waiting behind these people as they navigate these FP+ machines.

In any case, this is very magical - if you enjoy things like ATM banking and self-checkout kiosks.

Wow, I couldn't agree more. That looks complicated enough for those of us actually following the Nextgen information. I couldn't imagine my parents, for example, figuring that out very easily. Or an international visitor?

What a mess.

 

[COProgressFan]

I agree - This is absurd. I can only imagine the lines that this will create.

Why, you don't think that lone kiosk at City Hall will be enough for the thousands of guests without smartphones, who didn't book their meet and greet three months ago?

 

[captainkidd]

Why, you don't think that lone kiosk at City Hall will be enough for the thousands of guests without smartphones, who didn't book their meet and greet three months ago?

 

[tracyandalex]

I'm still going to be optimistic about FP+, but I am a little concerned that my family will get screwed. We have APs and are Florida residents, so we generally don't book our hotel very far in advance. Maybe 60 days out, sometimes closer if i am really waiting for a Florida resident rate. So far it seems that I won't need a hotel reservation to book my FP+s, but if that changes we might just be left with whatever is left. We generally do parades, show, meet and greets, and rides so we don't get nearly enough credits in a day especially at MK. Also, I don't like that my selections can just be changed, what if Disney picks something that I didn't want to do. The person who posted the example (sorry i don't remember who it was) said they weren't able to change it, that has me a little concerned. I would hate to waste a FP credit on something I don't want to do. In addition, I wish there was a selection of times to choose from. We are not morning people so I don't want a FP return time of 8 or 9 AM. Finally, I am concerned about what this will do to stand-by times. I don't want to have to waste a FP credit on HM (which I have never seen with more than a 15 min wait) because the stand-by line is now usually 30 mins. I'm sure it will take a year or 2 for everything to settle down and be converted and we will then be able to see the real effects of FP+. I hope it works out for the best in the long run.

 

[John]

OK, here goes:
I do really hope they can work out the kinks and some of the traffic issues before my next trip.

I do like the idea of booking reserved space for parades and/or fireworks. Nothing is more annoying than waiting for a parade for an hour while trying to "hold your ground". I posted this in the illuminations thread, but the parades and fireworks already have a set start time so it's not like you can be spontaneous and catch illuminations at 8Pm tonight instead of 9Pm. It's at 9PM anyway and if I know that I am going to be in EPCOT that day anyway by 60 days out (which I will since I will have an ADR at some restaurant) then I book a reserved Illuminations spot with 1 of my FP+ reservations and now I dont have to worry about lining up an hour+ early for the show. I guess I am a planner anyway by nature so I don't have as much heartburn as some over reserving FP+ ahead of time. Since you will most likely be limited to 4 or less FP+ reservations per day it's not like you have to plan out every minute of your day. To me it doesn't seem much different than FP as far as limiting your ability to be spontaneous. I wonder what the critics of FP+ thought of regular FP when it came out. Probably a lot of similar worries/complaints/criticism.

I still think the whole nextgen thing seems to be a lot of money to spend for what we are actually getting, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt for now until the whole picture is revealed.

What makes you think you will be garunteed a FP for Illuminations? Just like some resturants that are hard to snag I think things like ROE and Wishes will also be high in demand. Better set your alarm 60 days out....your gonna need it. As far as seeing the "whole picture" ? Isnt going to happen, they will roll out the FP+ and other facets of the program but there is no way we will know the "whole picture".

One common comment I keep hearing thru out the discussion of FP+.....is that they basically do the same thing now with FP, ADRs and reserved spots for fireworks and parades. They do the same thing with your KTTW card...ie chargeing to your room opening your door etc. So my question is, if they already do these things....what is the point of NexGen and over a billion dollars of investment? I think people have an attitude where they think because they can reserve 60 days in advance it is going to somehow garuntee them a spot. Couldnt be further from the truth. Maybe at first it will.... because it will take time for the masses to catch up with the nuances and the procedure. But in time instead of the rope drop at DHS for TSMM it will be at the opening bell of the Disney FP website.

I think there is going to be some truth to those who say DIsney will profile you as a guest.....weather you are a "big spender" or a "skin flint" Who do you think will snag the best FP? Is this good buisness practice? Sure, lots of companies do it. But we as guest percieved Disney as unlike other companies, even they held themselves to a different standard then other companies. There has ben a culture change at the World of DIsney...not just the parks but in the company as a whole. Some of us will go kicking and scratching.....some of us will go happily. But in the end we will all have to follow....or as some say.....we will just have to make a descision to stay home or go elsewhere. To those who think that this program is to "enhance the guest expierence" I think your wrong. I think that the program is a way to squeeze more money out of guest. The "enhance guest experience" is just to make us feel all warm and fuzzy about them taking our money. This program was designed to take your money without you knowing it. A way for you to volunteer your wallet. You can be a skin flint and have a magical vacation....but if you really want to have a special magical vacation all you have to do is spend "X" amount more! But didnt I get that last trip for free? Yes you did, and you still can.....but so sorry, your going to have to wait in that line right there. We have installed all of these lovely interactive queues to entertain you while you wait....Have a magical day!

 

[GoofGoof]

What makes you think you will be garunteed a FP for Illuminations? Just like some resturants that are hard to snag I think things like ROE and Wishes will also be high in demand. Better set your alarm 60 days out....your gonna need it. As far as seeing the "whole picture" ? Isnt going to happen, they will roll out the FP+ and other facets of the program but there is no way we will know the "whole picture".

I think people have an attitude where they think because they can reserve 60 days in advance it is going to somehow garuntee them a spot. Couldnt be further from the truth. Maybe at first it will.... because it will take time for the masses to catch up with the nuances and the procedure. But in time instead of the rope drop at DHS for TSMM it will be at the opening bell of the Disney FP website.

I never said I would be guaranteed anything. I am assuming that like ADRs if you book far enough in advance you will have a good shot at exactly what you want. With current FP there are no guarantees that passes will be available either. It's first come, first serve. I would rather know ahead of time that I'm not getting my FP+ than wait until I reach the machine and realize they are out or the return time is the same as my ADR.

One common comment I keep hearing thru out the discussion of FP+.....is that they basically do the same thing now with FP, ADRs and reserved spots for fireworks and parades. They do the same thing with your KTTW card...ie chargeing to your room opening your door etc. So my question is, if they already do these things....what is the point of NexGen and over a billion dollars of investment?

nextgen includes more than just FP+. It includes the door locks and cash register scanners plus the software to run them as well as the wireless internet at the parks plus some of the interactive queue elements. The billion dollars is not just to install FP+ scanners at the rides. I definitely buy into the theory that there will be a return on investment other than data mining or enhanced guest experience. This quote sums up a very good theory on it IMHO:

I now have a theory of how WDW intends to use Next Gen to improve its bottom line. It’s a three-pronged approach:

• Improve hotel occupancy rates – If guests staying at a Deluxe Resort (for example) get 4 extra FP+ per day, Moderate Resorts get 2 extra FP+ per day, and Value Resorts get 1 extra FP+ per day, this will encourage offsite guests to stay onsite and will encourage onsite guests to upgrade their hotel. Who knows, maybe they will do something similar with ADRs. I can imagine Deluxe Resort guests being able to book their ADRs 6 months in advance, Moderate 5 months, Value 4 months, and everyone else 3 months. Maybe ADRs will be linked to FP+. As a result, WDW hotel occupancy rates should improve, with more people staying at the very expensive Deluxe Resorts. Operating expenses for a hotel with 90% occupancy are not much more than a hotel with 70% occupancy. Filling unoccupied rooms in an existing hotel has a tremendous profit margin.
• Eliminate Extra Magic Hours – EMHs are an enormous operating expense. Considerable money could be saved by getting rid of these. With a multi-tiered FP+ system for onsite guests during regular park hours, EMHs are no longer needed. Hugh savings for WDW. Universal will be offering a multi-tiered perk system once they open their fourth hotel and their attendance is better than ever. Perhaps TDO thinks they can do the same with minimal impact on overall attendance.
• Price increases – Of course. Just like they did when they switched to the Magic Your Way ticket system, WDW undoubtedly has plans to rename some things and then charge more for essentially the same service.

CEO Bob Iger has publicly stated that the general public needs to be weaned off “Free Dining” and “Room Only” discounts. A multi-tiered perks system built around Next Gen might be a way to do this. Onsite guests get more FP+, better ADRs, and preferred viewing. Deluxe Resort guests get more than Moderate or Value Resort guests. As a result, WDW no longer needs to offer as many discounts if guests have stronger incentives to stay onsite, especially since these incentives require minimal opex. Potentially, this could be another way for WDW to increase revenue with minimal cost.

Looking at it this way, I see how Next Gen should improve revenue and profits better than any new attraction. No wonder these have been WDW’s worst years for attraction development.