Is the entirety of Zootopia considered a city though? And the facade of a ride wouldn't have to be the buildings seen downtown in the movie.
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Fantasyland Expansion: Beauty and the Beast or Frozen or Something Else?
- Thread starter EPCOTCenterLover
- Start date
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
The characters are mostly from Song of the South. It's next to New Orleans Square. A major southern American city.
It's the backwoods/country of the southern USA, during the 19th century...with some British stuffed animals.
(members of the Country Bear Jamboree came from states like Florida).It's most definitely not some alternate, modern, urban, human-less reality with big skyscrapers (Zootopia).
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Something that actually fits the scale of Fantasyland, not another giant box.
__r.jr
Well-Known Member
Placing Zootopia would only further erode and be deemed justifiable in Critter Country because, the Ashdown Forest of England based Winnie the Pooh, broke the thematic cohesion to begin with.
Bear Country was intended to be a hybrid extension of both Frontierland and New Orleans Square. The setting depicting the Pacific Northwest which is known to be the bear capitol of North America while The Country Bear Jamboree is a musical showcase of country music with twang that's derivative from the Deep South.
When Splash Mountain came online, it reestablished the setting from a Pacific Northwest to a more solidified extension of a late 1800's New Orleans by means of music with the Country Bears being meshed with a wilderness setting of a Dixieland influenced South.
SweetDuffy101
Well-Known Member
I would take a the Atlantis IP for Fantasyland and with the transition to Tomorrowland and the movie has a ton of elements and Can easily make a connection to SEA.
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
Atlantis is my least favorite Disney animated film of all time. The only one I turned off halfway through and stopped watching. I think a lot of it had to do with the animation style and the fact that the movie sucked.
Phroobar
Well-Known Member
Disneyland needs an area based on the Lloyd Alexander's The Chronicles of Prydain. This is a fantastic series of fantasy books. A must read for any Disney fan. It could add a much needed dark side area to Fantasyland. The thing would be anchored by the long awaited Black Cauldron dark ride-coaster.
TROR
Well-Known Member
High fantasy that just rips off Lord of the Rings is all junkDisneyland needs an area based on the Lloyd Alexander's The Chronicles of Prydain. This is a fantastic series of fantasy books. A must read for any Disney fan. It could add a much needed dark side area to Fantasyland. The thing would be anchored by the long awaited Black Cauldron dark ride-coaster.
MKeeler
Well-Known Member
I'm voting other. I've thought about this for a long time and have a few ideas. Long-ish post below.
IMHO, Disneyland's Fantasyland should be dedicated to Walt era animated classics. The goal with the Fantasyland Theater is to replace it with a mirror of the "castle court" attractions that flank both sides of Sleeping Beauty's Castle. If you can imagine, this creates a direct through line from the castle, between the courtyard buildings, through the carousel and Dumbo, across the Storybook Land Canal Boats, then again into a new courtyard, all the way back to the Fantasyland Train Station. This is all represented by the yellow line above. If stretched through the park, would go from the Main Street Train Station, through the castle, providing a balancing line for Fantasyland, then all the way through to the Fantasyland Train Station.
To accomplish this, the Fantasyland Train Station would likely need to be shifted over to the area represented roughly in yellow above. Given the complete retheming of the surrounding area, this would also provide an opportunity to reclaim the station from Toontown, retheming it to a Victorian/Edwardian European train station.
This would also likely require a reworking of the Storybook Land Canal Boats, especially given the goal of creating better guest pathways (identified in red and blue above). As it exists, the Canal Boats act as a barrier and berm to the Fantasyland Theater. Put another way, as it exists now, there is a back to the attraction. Given its position, it would need to be reconfigured to benefit from a path and views from all around the attraction. To me, this could be best accomplished by removing the Casey Jr. Train ride (a sad loss, but hopefully made up elsewhere in the park), and expanding the Canal Boats into a figure-eight like path that passes under a center bridge. This provides waterways on each side, a path directly over and through and paths all around, all affording views of the attraction. It would also allow a reworking of the scenes within the attraction, removing non-Walt era films (The Little Mermaid, Aladdin, and Frozen) and replacing them with Walt-era films and shorts like The Old Mill, Night On Bald Mountain, Peter and the Wolf, The Brave Little Tailor, etc.
The mirroring aspect would also allow us to potentially add another flat ride for visual kinetics, to the center of this new courtyard (identified in green above). Perhaps this could be a version of the whip ride (like Mater) themed to the Pastoral Symphony in Fantasia, with miniature Pegai (multiple Pegasus) pulling chariots with a raucous Bachuus statue in the center.
The removal of the theater allows us the space for the two large buildings creating our new courtyard, outlined in purple above. In these, the mix of shops, dining, and attractions would greatly expand utilized capacity for the park.
On the right, moving from the center out, we would add a Mary Poppins dark-ride. This keeps the English attractions on the right/east side of Fantasyland (with Peter Pan, Mr. Toad, and Alice).
On the left, we would add a Cinderella Carriage dark ride and table service dining hall, rounding out all of the Walt-era fairytales being represented in the park.
With this, I've added guest pathways, lost two attractions (Casey Jr. and the Theater), but gained four for a net add of two attractions. Depending on the necessary layouts, another attraction in this new section could potentially be added, either as a dark ride on the Cinderella side or another flat ride in the courtyard.
Were I to really go crazy with that area, I'd design it to cover as many bases as possible with one ride per film (so no Casey Jr and Dumbo, no Alice and the Teacups - the more iconic of the two remains). Casey Jr. has been removed for the reworking of the Storybook Land Canal boats. I'd replace the Teacups with the Pooh's Hunny Pot spin, which would allow us to take The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh out of Critter Country and keeps the English fairytales all on the right/east side of Fantasyland.
IMHO, Disneyland's Fantasyland should be dedicated to Walt era animated classics. The goal with the Fantasyland Theater is to replace it with a mirror of the "castle court" attractions that flank both sides of Sleeping Beauty's Castle. If you can imagine, this creates a direct through line from the castle, between the courtyard buildings, through the carousel and Dumbo, across the Storybook Land Canal Boats, then again into a new courtyard, all the way back to the Fantasyland Train Station. This is all represented by the yellow line above. If stretched through the park, would go from the Main Street Train Station, through the castle, providing a balancing line for Fantasyland, then all the way through to the Fantasyland Train Station.
To accomplish this, the Fantasyland Train Station would likely need to be shifted over to the area represented roughly in yellow above. Given the complete retheming of the surrounding area, this would also provide an opportunity to reclaim the station from Toontown, retheming it to a Victorian/Edwardian European train station.
This would also likely require a reworking of the Storybook Land Canal Boats, especially given the goal of creating better guest pathways (identified in red and blue above). As it exists, the Canal Boats act as a barrier and berm to the Fantasyland Theater. Put another way, as it exists now, there is a back to the attraction. Given its position, it would need to be reconfigured to benefit from a path and views from all around the attraction. To me, this could be best accomplished by removing the Casey Jr. Train ride (a sad loss, but hopefully made up elsewhere in the park), and expanding the Canal Boats into a figure-eight like path that passes under a center bridge. This provides waterways on each side, a path directly over and through and paths all around, all affording views of the attraction. It would also allow a reworking of the scenes within the attraction, removing non-Walt era films (The Little Mermaid, Aladdin, and Frozen) and replacing them with Walt-era films and shorts like The Old Mill, Night On Bald Mountain, Peter and the Wolf, The Brave Little Tailor, etc.
The mirroring aspect would also allow us to potentially add another flat ride for visual kinetics, to the center of this new courtyard (identified in green above). Perhaps this could be a version of the whip ride (like Mater) themed to the Pastoral Symphony in Fantasia, with miniature Pegai (multiple Pegasus) pulling chariots with a raucous Bachuus statue in the center.
The removal of the theater allows us the space for the two large buildings creating our new courtyard, outlined in purple above. In these, the mix of shops, dining, and attractions would greatly expand utilized capacity for the park.
On the right, moving from the center out, we would add a Mary Poppins dark-ride. This keeps the English attractions on the right/east side of Fantasyland (with Peter Pan, Mr. Toad, and Alice).
On the left, we would add a Cinderella Carriage dark ride and table service dining hall, rounding out all of the Walt-era fairytales being represented in the park.
With this, I've added guest pathways, lost two attractions (Casey Jr. and the Theater), but gained four for a net add of two attractions. Depending on the necessary layouts, another attraction in this new section could potentially be added, either as a dark ride on the Cinderella side or another flat ride in the courtyard.
Were I to really go crazy with that area, I'd design it to cover as many bases as possible with one ride per film (so no Casey Jr and Dumbo, no Alice and the Teacups - the more iconic of the two remains). Casey Jr. has been removed for the reworking of the Storybook Land Canal boats. I'd replace the Teacups with the Pooh's Hunny Pot spin, which would allow us to take The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh out of Critter Country and keeps the English fairytales all on the right/east side of Fantasyland.
Phroobar
Well-Known Member
Ahh, no. You never read the series have you.
This is out of the box thinking! Wow!
choco choco
Well-Known Member
Yep. Just add another one or two Fantasyland style dark rides on either side of a lovely courtyard. Each ride takes around 13,000 ground square footage total, inclusive of the queue and facades and load/unload, the ride system is some sort of simple t-bar system and most of the experience depends on artistry, blacklight, intimacy and cleverness.
These kind of attractions are the heart of Disneyland, the real magic, and why Disney moved away from them is to me one of the fundamental mysteries of the universe, right up there with the wave-particle duality.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
I think a small part is modern codes and a design culture that is focused on the massive, but more importantly I think it’s the abandonment of the ticket system. Nobody seems to have figured out a good way to reconcile the problem of your main problem no longer directly generating revenue. Small attractions are key a varied experience, maintaining an a desired attractions per guest per hour and crowd control. Such attractions though are not going to be cited as a reason why people visited on a survey, so there is no actual data saying something so small contributes to revenue, much less increased visitation and spending.
Phroobar
Well-Known Member
Traditional Disney dark rides are quaint. Today's social media dead heads need thrills in their dark rides and walls to instagram afterwards.
choco choco
Well-Known Member
A t-bar ride couldn't have an easier emergency/evacuation protocol, so I don't really understand the code complications (unless it was something like Alice, which itself wasn't that hard to solve). If I was an accountaneer, I would precisely argue that the dark ride cost benefit analysis should be rather high, simply because their cost is so low. The ride system is easy. The building is one level (I think Fantasyland is still the balloon framed wood constructs they originally were, none of the expensive steel behemoth's they build nowadays) The ground is flat. The facade work is moderately involved, simply because the building is so small. The ride is predominantly painted flats and hand-crafted figures, you throw in maybe a handful of cutting edge special effects. Maintenance is simple. Reliability is stellar. No height restrictions. ADA compliant. If one of the main metrics of guest satisfaction is "How many rides did you go on today?" the Fantasyland rides, by virtue of their being quick on/quick off, comfortably pads that number on only a fraction of the footprint. The variety makes Disneyland seem bigger, more vast, more lived-in, more full and it's an advertisement for a movie. What am I missing? What are the downsides?
Ismael Flores
Well-Known Member
The biggest problem now a days with whatever dark rides they come up with will most likely be the lack of intimacy. I look at Winnie the pooh in California and see how disconnect it feels partially because of the size of the vehicle but also because of the need to leave huge space between the track and physical sets. It makes me wonder if new laws have caused the change to these huge box attractions and the use for a t-bar system. The need to have extra evac space near the tracks especially if it might require a mobility system to evac the guest. Also wonder what new requirements for fire protection and proper ventilation systems also caused the need for taller structures.
Maybe the need to consider the trackless system for more of these darkrides. vehicles can be moved to the side in case of an evac clearing the pathways. free flowing vehicles also mean that they can have guests approach sets and add that intimacy and connection instead of just being passive viewers.
They should probably start with the Winnie the pooh ride, close down the ride change the track system and rebrand it
GiveMeTheMusic
Well-Known Member
Any Fantasyland expansion would likely target one or both of these two areas: the Fantasyland Theater, and the motorboat lagoon/Autopia/sub lagoon. I'm not aware of any serious discussion to remove any of the classic Fantasyland attractions.
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
I agree about the wide open spaces in the Winnie the Poo ride, but what about the mermaid ride where you're very awkwardly close to the poorly lit creepy vaguely anime uncanny valley robots right at the start? Two very bad extremes.