Families of autistic kids sue Disney parks over policy on lines

[BigRedDad]

Disney never require proof so a diagnosis wasn't necessary.

HIPPA prevents anyone from asking or requiring to divulge such information. If WDW gives out one assistance pass to anyone for any reason makes it a requirement to give it out to anyone else that asks for it. Denying it becomes discrimination.

 

[unkadug]

HIPPA prevents anyone from asking or requiring to divulge such information. If WDW gives out one assistance pass to anyone for any reason makes it a requirement to give it out to anyone else that asks for it. Denying it becomes discrimination.

Which makes the "magic list" unlawful.

 

[danlb_2000]

"thus, DAS and readmission passes afford Plaintiff a similar, or better, experience as those not needing them.”

Someone is getting a better experience then me! I am suing, that is discrimination!

 

[unkadug]

"thus, DAS and readmission passes afford Plaintiff a similar, or better, experience as those not needing them.”

Someone is getting a better experience then me! I am suing, that is discrimination!

Yes....yes it is

 

[Tip Top Club]

Am I mistaken that the cases were separated after moving to Florida? Does anyone have any insight as to how this will affect the other cases?

 

[Jon81uk]

My personal take on this is on both sides. The original process was abused but something is needed and I understand that people with special needs require an environment that does not trigger adverse situations. Here is what WDW should do. Anyone can get the pass because HIPPA protects from divulging the information. The person with the need has it added to their Magic Band. That person and 1 family member are provided access to a waiting area AT the attraction. The rest of the party goes into the line and waits like everyone else. If there are only 2 people, a person in the line at the same time they get there are given one of those wait time check necklaces. When the party gets to the front of the queue, the 1 family member and guest needing assistance then join their group.

The overall issue is that most people that got it abused it demanding not to wait like the rest of the paying customers. Going this route, everyone gets to enjoy the lovely process of waiting in lines like the rest.

Thats pretty much how much the DAS system is. You collect a return time from the CM and then wait anywhere you like, before returning back to the attraction at the designated time.

 

[BigRedDad]

Thats pretty much how much the DAS system is. You collect a return time from the CM and then wait anywhere you like, before returning back to the attraction at the designated time.

The issue is they are not "waiting". They are going to other attractions, collecting more. Pretty soon they have FastPasses for every ride basically. Use the DAS card, 2 people wait in a special area at the attraction where the rest of the part waits in the line.

It is not the same thing.

 

[flynnibus]

HIPPA prevents anyone from asking or requiring to divulge such information.

No it does not. Hippa is about securing info a covered entity has and who they can share it with - it does not have any relevance to what you can be asked about or divulge. Wdw isn't even a covered entity. People misunderstand these laws and perpetuate these misconceptions.

It's the Ada law itself that prevents businesses from requiring proof or medical interrogations when dealing with the public

 

[Jon81uk]

The issue is they are not "waiting". They are going to other attractions, collecting more. Pretty soon they have FastPasses for every ride basically. Use the DAS card, 2 people wait in a special area at the attraction where the rest of the part waits in the line.

It is not the same thing.

You can't collect a new return time until the old one has passed https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/disney-parks-disability-access-service-card-fact-sheet/

So the family with the DAS can go to Pirates with a 60 minute wait at 10am, and get a return time of 10:50. Then they see Magic Carpets has a 10 minute wait, so they ride that while waiting for Pirates and return to Pirates at 10:50 or later. But the earliest they can visit a new attraction and collect a new DAS time is 10:50.
Or if they try to ride Jungle Cruise at 11am, which has a 30 minute wait, they could get a return time of 11:20, go and eat Dole Whip and come back at 11:20.
As far as I know the only minor loophole is that they could go to Pirates at 11:20 and collect a new return time before going to Jungle Cruise at 11:30. But if Pirates has a 50 minute wait, they still can't return until 12:00, so there would still be a need to fill 20 minutes after Jungle Cruise before they can collect a further time.
Of course they can also schedule FP+ the same as any other guest, in addition to DAS.

It doesn't really matter if they are waiting in a box room at the attraction (which IMO would lead to more melt downs) or waiting on a seat ouside eating Dole Whip (which provides a distraction away from the actual wait).

 

[bunnyman]

The new system seems to be working well, having experienced it with our family. A family member has a non-autism related medical issue that makes waiting on long lines in the sun difficult, and may have to exit the line on short notice. While the old system worked, the new one seems to as well. It permits the person and their immediate party to return at a designated time (based on the wait times), and like a regular Fast Pass you can't book another one until the existing one is used/expires. The whole process is managed with the Magic Band system, and given that the pass is identified with the specific person it prevents someone else from using it. In our case a "holding" area is not the best answer either, as we experienced at Disneyland (i.e. Space Mountain).

 

[flynnibus]

The issue is they are not "waiting". They are going to other attractions, collecting more. Pretty soon they have FastPasses for every ride basically. Use the DAS card, 2 people wait in a special area at the attraction where the rest of the part waits in the line.

It is not the same thing.

The best way to think about the system is simply Fastpass without worrying about availability. Return time is always based on the current wait time and you don't have to worry about FP not being available.

 

[arko]

The best way to think about the system is simply Fastpass without worrying about availability. Return time is always based on the current wait time and you don't have to worry about FP not being available.

It works quite well when you combine it with FP+ and reduces the amount of rides you need it for. We use it about 1-2 times per park and sometimes not at all as FP+ is enough.

 

[BigRedDad]

So you don't have to wait with it, you can go enjoy other parts of the park, still get access to FP+. It is an all win situation. I need to start utilizing it.

Just an example: Get FP+ for 7DMT, hit Peter Pan at opening, walk over to 7DMT to get the wait time pass, ride Pooh, Teacups, Carousel, use 7DMT pass, get pass for Space Mtn, go hit the racecars, do Buzz, ride the people mover, use 7DMT FP, go use pass for Space Mtn, get pass for BTMRR, ride Splash Mountain, watch the stage show, meet a character or 2.

Yeah, this does not fly to well for me and is the reason it is abused. While people wait the 60 minutes, the entire group with the DAS pass can go enjoy other things. It is basically an open ended FP card. This is why the individuals with it should have a separate waiting area at the attraction until their time is up. I would love to not have to wait in an hour line, go enjoy the short line attractions waiting for it, then returning to enjoy it. This is why it was abused previously. Something that I need to look at for my next trip. I have an affliction of heat, humidity, cramped areas, and waiting.

 

[DrummerAlly]

My personal take on this is on both sides. The original process was abused but something is needed and I understand that people with special needs require an environment that does not trigger adverse situations. Here is what WDW should do. Anyone can get the pass because HIPPA protects from divulging the information. The person with the need has it added to their Magic Band. That person and 1 family member are provided access to a waiting area AT the attraction. The rest of the party goes into the line and waits like everyone else. If there are only 2 people, a person in the line at the same time they get there are given one of those wait time check necklaces. When the party gets to the front of the queue, the 1 family member and guest needing assistance then join their group.

The overall issue is that most people that got it abused it demanding not to wait like the rest of the paying customers. Going this route, everyone gets to enjoy the lovely process of waiting in lines like the rest.

As a parent of a 3.5 year old with autism, I can say that this would be so stressful and cause even more melt downs that we simply wouldn't be able to visit Disney period. This would stick my husband and 18 month old in line alone while I sit in a room with my child who is now stressed out about being without the rest of her family? In her head, everyone else is riding without her and she's being punished with me. Additonally, this is a visible and unnecessary division of those with and without disabilities. Do you honestly care if my family is eating a dole whip on a bench waiting for our time to open up with a DAS, or God Forbid, riding the hated Alladin spinner for the 50th time?

While other people are at the store or the playground with their kids, mine is at Boston children's hospital - again. Doing speech and occupational therapy - again. Being tested by a psychologist - again. It's not fun being a special needs child or their parent. We all need a vacation.

 

[BigRedDad]

Do you not get it that this is the exact reason there is a problem? It is against Federal Law to show proof it is needed. Anyone can get it. Once again, locals will start charging the less informed visitors to get them in the game of it. Then, WDW will face more lawsuits from people claiming they are not being given everything they require from the ADA.

Everyone at WDW will eventually come to a melting point. Simply from the heat, humidity, long waits, and everything else. No one is asking for anything different. I see "normal" kids have meltdowns because they have been in the same line for an hour. After they get that tantrum over and eventually get on the ride, they sometimes have to leave the park because the kid is done with it. Is it fair for that family to be forced to leave for a break because they couldn't just avoid the line?

Don't get me wrong. I can sympathize for the needs of those with autism or other ailments. However, people in this situation have to understand that they are not alone in the matter. Normal kids are forced into equally stressful situations. In my kids mind it would be "hey look, they get to enjoy a Dole Whip, relax, and then get to go right up on the ride. Why do I have to wait here another 45 minutes?"

 

[DrummerAlly]

Do you not get it that this is the exact reason there is a problem? It is against Federal Law to show proof it is needed. Anyone can get it. Once again, locals will start charging the less informed visitors to get them in the game of it. Then, WDW will face more lawsuits from people claiming they are not being given everything they require from the ADA.

Everyone at WDW will eventually come to a melting point. Simply from the heat, humidity, long waits, and everything else. No one is asking for anything different. I see "normal" kids have meltdowns because they have been in the same line for an hour. After they get that tantrum over and eventually get on the ride, they sometimes have to leave the park because the kid is done with it. Is it fair for that family to be forced to leave for a break because they couldn't just avoid the line?

Don't get me wrong. I can sympathize for the needs of those with autism or other ailments. However, people in this situation have to understand that they are not alone in the matter. Normal kids are forced into equally stressful situations. In my kids mind it would be "hey look, they get to enjoy a Dole Whip, relax, and then get to go right up on the ride. Why do I have to wait here another 45 minutes?"

I agree with you that the problem is the federal law. I travel with documentation of my child's disability and would have no problem showing it to anyone who needed it. Honestly, I think most families with disabilities would agree with this. If the question were on changing the law, I'm with you 100%

The difference is that children with some disabilities aren't dealing with "normal" kid meltdowns. I have a neurotypical child and a child with autism and I can tell you that it's very very different. Normal kids aren't forced into "equally stressful situations". My autistic child's stressful situation is basically her entire life and very normal things - getting dressed, a car beeping a horn, an odd number of goldfish put on her plate, a person who says "hello" to her. My "normal" child can get stressed out by heat, hunger, all the regular stuff. My autistic child's brain doesn't function normally, she can't process stimuli normally, she has decreased cognitive and emotional functioning.

So, to answer your child's theoretical question, I'd say this: "Some people have disabilities or difficulties that maybe you can't see. They need to be sitting there on that bench with that dole whip in order to be able to enjoy some family time here. Isn't it great that they look happy? We are able to stand here in line and wait, so we will. Let's play a game, can you....." If my husband and my autistic daughter take some time out to sit on a bench, and my neurotypical daughter and I were to stand in a line for a ride and she asked that question, that's how I'd answer it for her.

Yeah, some people con the system. Some people con any system. Personally, I just take a deep breath and follow the rules and think about the fact that I'm happy that I don't have to be one of those people.

 

[arko]

Do you not get it that this is the exact reason there is a problem? It is against Federal Law to show proof it is needed. Anyone can get it. Once again, locals will start charging the less informed visitors to get them in the game of it. Then, WDW will face more lawsuits from people claiming they are not being given everything they require from the ADA.

Everyone at WDW will eventually come to a melting point. Simply from the heat, humidity, long waits, and everything else. No one is asking for anything different. I see "normal" kids have meltdowns because they have been in the same line for an hour. After they get that tantrum over and eventually get on the ride, they sometimes have to leave the park because the kid is done with it. Is it fair for that family to be forced to leave for a break because they couldn't just avoid the line?

Don't get me wrong. I can sympathize for the needs of those with autism or other ailments. However, people in this situation have to understand that they are not alone in the matter. Normal kids are forced into equally stressful situations. In my kids mind it would be "hey look, they get to enjoy a Dole Whip, relax, and then get to go right up on the ride. Why do I have to wait here another 45 minutes?"

That is true, but the thresholds for normal kids are a lot higher, so eventually all kids get to a meltdown state, those with autism in many cases just get there a lot quicker because the overload is so much more. Imagine your kid with headphones with the noise cranked up X10 and everyone standing right on top of them , I bet the one hour they could handle now would shrink considerably. That being said the DAS is a decent accommodation, not as good as the GAC but the best WDW can do given why the GAC was removed, which was not because people felt it was too much of a perk for the disabled but because way too many without disabilities were exploiting its benefits.

 

[Sensesfailed]

Glad to see the Judge rendered this decision in favor of Disney. I am completely sympathetic to those families in dealing with a child on the spectrum(my ex's son is autistic, lovely kid when he wasn't trying to curb stomp me when we were wrestling), but I just felt, at least my from limited business understanding of the ADA, that this was going to be hard to win for plaintiffs. I feel for them in having to deal with issues arising from autism, but, in my opinion only, that they were not happy with the changes and wanted the old system back. Now, I will not even fathom the idea of them doing it out selfishness or not, that's not the thought in my mind, but I really want to see how this will effect the other lawsuits that are being presented.

Obviously, there could be slight differences between them all, but, at least my reading and understand(again, not a lawyer, but I did say at a Hotel 6 last week), they have the potential to fall the same way this did.

 

[AEfx]

so eventually all kids get to a meltdown state...

Not all kids...I didn't have any "meltdowns" because if I had, I would have been yanked out of the park and made to sit in the hotel room all day, at the least.

When kids without disabilities have anything that could even be described a "meltdown" at a theme park, that's a parenting issue.

 

[AEfx]

I agree with you that the problem is the federal law. I travel with documentation of my child's disability and would have no problem showing it to anyone who needed it. Honestly, I think most families with disabilities would agree with this. If the question were on changing the law, I'm with you 100%

Absolutely. We'd gladly carry any documentation (and already do). The ADA is flawed in this respect, IMO. The spirit is right but the implementation based on it is flawed due to it.

So, to answer your child's theoretical question, I'd say this: "Some people have disabilities or difficulties that maybe you can't see. They need to be sitting there on that bench with that dole whip in order to be able to enjoy some family time here. Isn't it great that they look happy? We are able to stand here in line and wait, so we will. Let's play a game, can you....." If my husband and my autistic daughter take some time out to sit on a bench, and my neurotypical daughter and I were to stand in a line for a ride and she asked that question, that's how I'd answer it for her.

Ding, ding, ding.

I can't believe you had to explain to someone how to respond to that question...