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News Evermore Orlando Resort - new billion-dollar, 10,000-room resort project is coming right next to Walt Disney World

maxairmike

Well-Known Member
It has already proven to be a bit of a flop, too.

The resort/vacation homes, or the non-affiliated water park? They're two very different things, and the water park is definitely a flop. They were still building new homes last time I drove by the back of the property a few months ago. As far as I'm aware, the resort itself isn't doing bad. The hotel part may be a little under-utilized, but if you notice, with these types of developments the hotel rooms usually make up 25% or less of the total room inventory.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
Well the location is certainly prime. This has been in the works for a few years now. We have been going to the villas for our annual golf outing the last 10 years. Two years ago we stopped because they started ground work for this project. It's true they did lay off a bunch of workers. The explanation for the redo was the resort was not bringing enough revenue and they wanted to make it more family friendly being so close to Disney. It makes sense, but selfishly it was perfect for a golf trip. Close to Disney, nice accommodations, good golf all at a reasonable price. Being a golfer it was nice to be at true golf resort. Mostly everyone staying there were golfers. Also it was peaceful and quiet. We have moved our event to Championsgate which is nice, but I think our group misses the villas.
I was there at the Villas of Grand Cypress in 1996. Enron occupied almost all the the villas for their company retreat. It was the heyday when they celebrated in grand style before their scandal erupted.
 

"El Scorpion"

Premium Member
In the Parks
No
Love it. More options. You've also got 2 Hilton properties being built on Western Way and the JW Marriott coming to Bonnet Creek. Only thing that worries me is if they start limiting access coming in on Vista Blvd or E Buena Vista Dr. Which in a lot of cases is my preferred way of getting into WDW. I think more likely than not - they'll create an official entrance on Vista Blvd.
 

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
The resort/vacation homes, or the non-affiliated water park? They're two very different things, and the water park is definitely a flop. They were still building new homes last time I drove by the back of the property a few months ago. As far as I'm aware, the resort itself isn't doing bad. The hotel part may be a little under-utilized, but if you notice, with these types of developments the hotel rooms usually make up 25% or less of the total room inventory.
Both don't seem to be doing too well. I live very close to these. It doesn't seem like the resort itself sees many guests. I don't know what percentage of the vacation homes are actually owned/occupied, however. The waterpark is definitely a flop. I never saw anyone in line for the slides when it was open. The shopping and dining strip, "Sunset Walk", sees moderate success on weekends but is often deserted during the week.

The area, and the greater Orlando tourist area, are definitely oversaturated with these type of resorts. I swear these companies think it's a guaranteed success without knowing how saturated the market already is.
 

maxairmike

Well-Known Member
Both don't seem to be doing too well. I live very close to these. It doesn't seem like the resort itself sees many guests. I don't know what percentage of the vacation homes are actually owned/occupied, however. The waterpark is definitely a flop. I never saw anyone in line for the slides when it was open. The shopping and dining strip, "Sunset Walk", sees moderate success on weekends but is often deserted during the week.

The area, and the greater Orlando tourist area, are definitely oversaturated with these type of resorts. I swear these companies think it's a guaranteed success without knowing how saturated the market already is.

Oh, I'm well aware, as I live very close to it as well. If they're still building they must be selling. Given that Lennar and other builders haven't put the brakes on their resort communities or transitioned them to partially/completely residential either, there's enough buying action to keep them going. Now, whether these real estate investors/companies buying them (at ridiculously inflated prices, to boot) are seeing the return they expected...that's a different story. Margaritaville looks like it's closer to the Evermore model, as it appears they're the sole manager of the homes when the buyer isn't using them, just stopping shy of owning them completely and operating them entirely as resort rooms like Evermore. So I would guess that they're not too worried about the occupancy of the homes after they're sold.
 

Dunston

Well-Known Member
Aye carumba! that's a bigg pool!
1610683186722.png
 

Thelazer

Well-Known Member
Just because builders are building doesn't mean it's profitable for the owners. The whole concept of MagVill, was that you buy the house and then offset your mortgage payments be having it in the rental program...... if there are no tourists to pay that $500 a night rental fee.....
 

maxairmike

Well-Known Member
Just because builders are building doesn't mean it's profitable for the owners. The whole concept of MagVill, was that you buy the house and then offset your mortgage payments be having it in the rental program...... if there are no tourists to pay that $500 a night rental fee.....

Which is pretty much what I said...as far as Margaritaville is concerned, if their inventory (houses) are still selling and a few people are staying in the hotel, they're good. How the inventory does on the rental market for the buyers isn't as much of a concern to them (obviously excluding any marketing and similar responsibilities they may have).
 

spock8113

Well-Known Member
I just "love" these flashy virtual presentations by design and architectural firms for public presentation.
I see huge corporate sponsorship and purchases, time-share and people just spending their day golfing and trying to ignore "out there".
Celebration is a classic example of that same isolationism and denial. It's boring and mind-numbing but ignorance is bliss.
What about people who don't have jobs to even rent one of these "villas" much less be able to afford going to the "new Disney"?
It's clear who they are targeting and Disney has been targeting this demographic to keep the "riffraff" out.
The "New Disney" has defined "Affordable family fun" to be "Affordable family fun for OUR families only."
Theme Park Snobbery. That's the new Disney.
 

FlaJim7

New Member
This reminds me of a plussed-up version of the Grove Resort off of Avalon, which seems like a ghost town with nobody there. Anyone know anything about The Grove success or lack thereof?
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
This is the former local coming out, but can they not just build normal ****ing housing?

Orlando’s Housing Market (at least pre-COVID) was sorely under supplied causing obscene rents. I’d go as far as to argue that Orlando’s lack of affordable housing is a bigger issue than FL’s min wage (which is slowly being spiked). This area in particular is a relatively high value residential area that Grand Cypress barely snuck into, and honestly I would rather this development have a significant number of non-vacation rental apartments.

Orlando is over saturated with hotels/rooms/places to stay. I’d rather see people buying/redoing I-Drive’s many lousier hotels than this.
If Disney cared like they used to, they would buy the property and redevelop it as a CM village with an architect that cares about sustainable, walkable communities, like Moshe Safdie or Bjark Ingles, and spin it off once completed, like Celebration.

Much of Central FL’s apartment complexes leave much to be desired, see Flamingo Crossings, and Disney could lead the way.
 
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bcoachable

Well-Known Member
I just "love" these flashy virtual presentations by design and architectural firms for public presentation.
I see huge corporate sponsorship and purchases, time-share and people just spending their day golfing and trying to ignore "out there".
Celebration is a classic example of that same isolationism and denial. It's boring and mind-numbing but ignorance is bliss.
What about people who don't have jobs to even rent one of these "villas" much less be able to afford going to the "new Disney"?
It's clear who they are targeting and Disney has been targeting this demographic to keep the "riffraff" out.
The "New Disney" has defined "Affordable family fun" to be "Affordable family fun for OUR families only."
Theme Park Snobbery. That's the new Disney.
Florida Project much??
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
If Disney cared like they used to, they would buy the property and redevelop it as a CM village with an architect that cares about sustainable, walkable communities, like Moshe Safdie or Bjark Ingles, and spin it off once completed, like Celebration.

Much of Central FL’s apartment complexes leave much to be desired, see Flamingo Crossings, and Disney could lead the way.
You don’t even need a starchitect. It’s basic planning that is understood by even recent graduates.
 

maxairmike

Well-Known Member
If Disney cared like they used to, they would buy the property and redevelop it as a CM village with an architect that cares about sustainable, walkable communities, like Moshe Safdie or Bjark Ingles, and spin it off once completed, like Celebration.

Much of Central FLs apartment complexes leave much to be desired, see Flamingo Crossings, and Disney could lead the way.

That last line is putting it mildly. If it's not all-block construction, it's probably mediocre at best quality (the majority going up appear to be bare minimum standards, in all aspects), but all-block is typically only 2 stories so more expensive to rent. Lived in 2 all-block buildings prior to my current complex (one apartment, one townhome), and I can't get back into an all-block structure quick enough.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
That last line is putting it mildly. If it's not all-block construction, it's probably mediocre at best quality (the majority going up appear to be bare minimum standards, in all aspects), but all-block is typically only 2 stories so more expensive to rent. Lived in 2 all-block buildings prior to my current complex (one apartment, one townhome), and I can't get back into an all-block structure quick enough.
Being all CMU doesn’t really tell you anything about the quality of the construction. Plenty of junk is built with it. The issue is also far larger than the construction of an individual building but how they are planned, laid out and relate to one another. Well planned but cheap buildings can easily be better than the highest quality construction in a sea of asphalt.
 

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