EVEREST News... talked with a Construction Worker

DisneyFan 2000

Well-Known Member
syddisney said:
Hey, i don't think we should be worried. When was the last time Universial beat Disney at anything and got away with it. Disney will always be on top. EE will dominate RotM with out a doubt. I can't wait for EE!!!!!

Open your eyes and smell the competition. Have you ever been to MiB? Buzz pales in comparision.
Visit IoA. Sure, it may not have family fun but can you really say it hasn't topped Disney in some aspects? The Dueling Dragons queue, Cat in the Hat's superior theming (comparing to FL dark rides), Spiderman. I mean, at least be fair and state the obvious. Universal has done some good in recent years.

Disney won't always be on top. You might think that way but the general public doesn't always think that way. Be fair when stating a comment like that because I've heard of a LOT of people that were far more impressed with Universal. I'm not saying they're better but apparently some people are saying it.

Don't get me wrong, I love Disney but I simply freak out when someone makes a comment like this one. Sure it's your opinion but at least give some credit to Universal. I highly doubt you'd be seeing so many attractions today being built if it wasn't for them. :animwink:
 

grandmath

Active Member
Fossil said:
Oh, Please! The only amazing and technological attraction Universal has in comparison to Disney is Spider-man.

Agree, Spiderman is the only ride that truly beats what Disney has to offer. Somes rides are better than Disney (Earthquake vs Catastrophe Canyon, Men in Black vs Buzz, Twister vs Armageddon at WDS) not because of technology but because of bigger budgets and different purposes (Men in Black was designed to be THE big E-Ticket dark irde at USF while Buzz was designed to be just an additional fun family interactive dark ride).

That said, I also love Universal nonetheless!
 

Empress Room

Active Member
DisneyFan 2000 said:
Disney won't always be on top. You might think that way but the general public doesn't always think that way. Be fair when stating a comment like that because I've heard of a LOT of people that were far more impressed with Universal. I'm not saying they're better but apparently some people are saying it.

Apparently not "a LOT of people...[are] far more impressed with Universal." The new theme park surveys for 2004 came out two days ago. Disney has all of the top 5 spots - including all those Florida Disney parks that contain those "horrible" and unpopular attractions that you describe. My question, where was Universal???
 

DisneyFan 2000

Well-Known Member
Empress Room said:
Apparently not "a LOT of people...[are] far more impressed with Universal." The new theme park surveys for 2004 came out two days ago. Disney has all of the top 5 spots - including all those Florida Disney parks that contain those "horrible" and unpopular attractions that you describe. My question, where was Universal???

So a park can't be called better because it isn't in the survey's top 5?? :veryconfu

And where did I describe a horrible, unpopular attraction? If we're going to argue over this argue over things I said, not things I didn't say.
 

Empress Room

Active Member
DisneyFan 2000 said:
So a park can't be called better because it isn't in the survey's top 5?? :veryconfu

Well, I suppose I could call myself the King of Prussia, and even it that isn't factually accurate, with your line of reasoning, it really doesn't matter. We can argue what is or is not better; however, guests tend to spend their hard-earned money on the theme parks that they enjoy, as opposed to those that they do not, that's why they head up popularity lists and why "Xanadu - Home of the Future" isn't topping many lists.

DisneyFan 2000 said:
And where did I describe a horrible, unpopular attraction? If we're going to argue over this argue over things I said, not things I didn't say.

Sorry for the use of flowery adjectives attributed to you; however, stating that various Disney attraction(s) "pale in comparison" does, I believe, properly capture your theme.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fairly objective person and I definitely give kudos to Universal where due - some of their attractions are top-notch and rival Disney. Overall, however, it's not close in my book.
 

DisneyFan 2000

Well-Known Member
Empress Room said:
Don't get me wrong, I'm a fairly objective person and I definitely give kudos to Universal where due - some of their attractions are top-notch and rival Disney. Overall, however, it's not close in my book.

In that case, be honest for a moment. Two interactive rides themed to aliens. One is state of the art, has AAs, 3d sets and a themed queue. The other built out of cardboard cut-outs, uses an excisting ride vehicle and a Fantasyland type queue. Wouldn't the average guest be more impressed with the first choice?

Remeber, be honest. . . :animwink:
 

speck76

Well-Known Member
DisneyFan 2000 said:
In that case, be honest for a moment. Two interactive rides themed to aliens. One is state of the art, has AAs, 3d sets and a themed queue. The other built out of cardboard cut-outs, uses an excisting ride vehicle and a Fantasyland type queue. Wouldn't the average guest be more impressed with the first choice?

Remeber, be honest. . . :animwink:

I think both are nice....but they serve different purposes.

MIB was the "top ride" at USF prior to The Mummy opening.....it was meant to be a headliner, an "E-Ticket"...

Buzz never had this purpose.....it is not an E-Ticket.....it is not a "focus/headline" attraction at the MK......it is "filler", much like Peter Pan, Snow White, and Pooh.
 

DisneyFan 2000

Well-Known Member
speck76 said:
I think both are nice....but they serve different purposes.

MIB was the "top ride" at USF prior to The Mummy opening.....it was meant to be a headliner, an "E-Ticket"...

Buzz never had this purpose.....it is not an E-Ticket.....it is not a "focus/headline" attraction at the MK......it is "filler", much like Peter Pan, Snow White, and Pooh.

Good point.
Speaking of E-Tickets, am I the only one who's noticed the last time MK got a proper E-Ticket was nearly 13 years ago? Time for a new ride says I! :D
 

speck76

Well-Known Member
DisneyFan 2000 said:
Good point.
Speaking of E-Tickets, am I the only one who's noticed the last time MK got a proper E-Ticket was nearly 13 years ago? Time for a new ride says I! :D

Prior to that, it had been 14 or so years....so.......yeah....it is approaching time.......
 

Epcot82Guy

Well-Known Member
wow I swear this is like a Disney bar fight or something! (not trying to start an alcohol at WDW thing here)

I would just offer the following statements:

First, MK hasn't gotten a new E-ticket. That's very true. HOWEVER, there has not been the need to do so compared with the other parks. With attendance PROBLEMS at the other parks, put the attractions where they are needed. Now that attendance is rising at the others, I have a good feeling MK will be next to get something big (especially with the new real estate that opened up).

I am one that does not like Universal because I feel they play copycat and dirty pool. BUT, that is a very personal statement and merely goes to MY OWN enjoyment of Universal. That is NOT the foundations for arguments here.

Having said that, I believe comparisons, as many have suggested, must be done appropriately here. If you want to compare Buzz to something, it should be Jimmy Neutron. Both were renovations of an old attraction with a similar thrill level. Having said that, I think Buzz wins because it has a much higher re-ride factor and utilized a more creative approach. MIB is certainly a much better ride, and it should be. I would compare it more to M:S in status (which I have not ridden yet, so I cannot comment appropriately).

I do agree that Universal has some good queues, but that is their biggest downfall as well IMHO, especially at IOA. USF tends to have good consistency. The attraction meshes with the queue itself. MIB has a great queue. It has a great look in the ride as well. Twister is the same way. B2F has a mediocre look to its queue, and the ride itself has a mediocre appearance also (not commenting on the technology but on the housing and overall appearance). IOA on the other hand has some of the most inconsistent themeing I have ever seen. Dragons' queue is outstanding (and certainly screams to me the rumored theft of Disney ideas, but that is a debate for another time), but the ride itself falls below Six Flags level IMHO. Hulk has a mediocre queue, outstanding first portion with the tube and over-water experience, and a HORRIBLE ending. It has some of the biggest let-down factor of any coaster I have ever ridden. Spiderman is the opposite. A terribly done queue (nice idea but horrible execution) and a good looking attraction. I just think Disney trumps in all categories when it comes to consistency of storytelling.

Finally, to compare what Universal has done since 1999 to what Disney has done is a bit off as well. Universal had one theme park up until 1999. Now they have two. The addition of resorts and other facilities is A NEW BALLGAME for them still. They have seen what Disney and others have done for over 30 years almost. While the markets and management of the companies have changed drastically, I would like IOA much more to EPCOT Center's opening. It was meant to be Universal's trump card; their ultimate expense, much like EPCOT Center was when it opened in 1982. To claim that IOA comes anywhere near the ambition, grandeur, or sheer amazement factor of Epcot @ opening is unfounded at best IMHO. Welldone, sure, but Groundbreaking IOA is NOT.

Bottom line, comparing attraction to attraction is inappropriate because Universal will always have the advantage simply on age and space available (i.e. # of "big" attractions over fewer parks). Disney is not living up to its potential, but Universal is still not posing a threat to take over... only to lessen Disney's lead at the moment if they continue down this same path.
 

CTXRover

Well-Known Member
Ah, how a thread on Everest sparked the ongoing Disney/Universal battle never fails to surprise me. All from a comment that Everest was being tweaked to help insure its a kick-butt ride and hopefully better than Mummy....which was perhaps simply trying to make a nod towards the popularity/success of Mummy.

Theme park attendance is often one of the best ways to indicate ongoing popularity. Considering MK ALONE attracts more people in one year (15.0 million) then the entire Universal Orlando property (both parks combined: 13.2 million) should be a good indicator. Take from that what you may.

Oh, and by the way, I noticed that a comparison on the "quality" of recent additions to both resort properties was started. The comparison was suprisingly lopsided (go figure). In Disney's "defense" (as it needs one), MS and Philharmagic are both ranked very high on guest satisfaction lists. Philharmagic has been receiving some of the best guest ratings of any Disney attraction since it opened late last year. In fact, on OrlandoRocks.com, a site with various polls (where IOA and Spiderman top their respective lists....so its not just a "Disney fan site") has Philharmagic topping the list for best 3D show with 40% of the votes and Shrek 4D was actually behind Tough to be a Bug in 3rd place (at least that's the way it was last time I checked a week or so ago)...so I wouldn't call Phil just a "modest" 3D show. The new Wishes fireworks show, another recent addition, is also receiving some of the highest guest satisfactory ratings.. whose only competition in quality in the theme park world today was DL's "Believe" fireworks show. On Universal's side, IOA is a very great park, but the only thing truly astounding, imo, is Spiderman, which is one of heck of an excellent ride. If you aren't a big coaster fan (like me) Hulk and DD, while good coasters, lack a lot of repeat value for me personally (and I realize others differ in opinion on that)...well, at least a lot less repeat value than RnRC has. My second favorite ride at IOA is easily JP River Adventure, which suprisingly I remember being better at USH than the IOA version which came after it. Not much beyond Spiderman would I consider breaking any new barriers in terms of technology or storytelling on rides at IOA. Even Pooh at MK is better than Cat in the Hat, imo. The spinning is fun on CITH, but the scenes are pretty poorly put together themeing wise. Certainly nothing else at IOA is more groundbreaking than TT or Mission:Space. I would compare the Jimmy Nuetron makeover to that of the SGE makeover, but in Jimmy's case, even less was changed in its conversion from the classic Hanna Barbara days. It has too many obscure characters from Nick that I just don't recognize (besides SpongeBob :lol: ) for me to really care.

I love both resorts. Visit both often....just happen to visit and enjoy Disney World a bit more ;)
 

CTXRover

Well-Known Member
One more thing, Disney has also added to their resort line-up since 1999 that was left out before. Pop Century, which IS, and should be considered as such, a value resort in both price and look, is imo, a lot nicer than the original value resort: the All Stars. I haven't actually stayed at either, but I've walked around them and visited with friends/family who have. Pop is far from a luxury resort, but although originally I thought it would be tacky from what I saw from the road, I found it to be one of the most "fun" resorts on property in style.

The other hotel added is AKL....now THIS is a luxury hotel at its best. I had an absolutely wonderful time when I stayed there. While the rooms were a bit smaller than I would like at a Deluxe hotel, the themeing is phenomenal, the service is impeccable and nowhere else nearby can you wake up at 8 in the morning and look out your window at a giraffe and zebra grazing. Also to open since 1999 have been two new additions to the Vacation Club family...the Beach Club Villas which are very nice, as is the new Saratago Springs resort. Now, I haven't stayed at any Unviersal on-site hotels, but I've walked through all of them. They are all very nice, but I wouldn't say they are the "best of the best" in Central Florida. Yacht/Beach, Boardwalk, Grand FLoridian and AKL I would easily place above them.
 

NemoRocks78

Seized
Originally Posted by TURKEY
I wish someone would start a Disney vs. Universal website and then these arguments could take place there.

I've been thinking about that for quite a while actually; hope to do it someday in the near future.


Originally Posted by Empress Room
Apparently not "a LOT of people...[are] far more impressed with Universal." The new theme park surveys for 2004 came out two days ago. Disney has all of the top 5 spots - including all those Florida Disney parks that contain those "horrible" and unpopular attractions that you describe. My question, where was Universal???

I would not consider attendance records to be theme park surveys.....

Just took a look at Theme Park Insider. Top rated park? Islands of Adventure. USF came in at a higher place than MK, as did USH. The Amazing Adventures of Spider-Man came in at #1 on the world's greatest theme park attraction list and the Incredible Hulk Coaster ranked #7. As for their 2004 Insider Awards winners.....IoA took best park, best attraction, best new attraction, and best restaurant in a theme park.

One site not enough? We'll take a look at Amusement Today's Golden Ticket Awards for 2004. IoA ranks second in the best park category, first in best water ride (Dudley Do-Right's Ripsaw Falls), two in best kid's area, four in most beautiful park (beating out Epcot by 3%), number one in best dark ride, and number three in best carousel. USF picks up number five in best indoor coaster (RnRC and Space top the list but we must take into account that RotM has been open for only six months).


Epcot82Guy said:
Welldone, sure, but Groundbreaking IOA is NOT.

I would compare Islands of Adventure to Epcot when it first open -- they were both ground-breaking for their time.


If you want to compare Buzz to something, it should be Jimmy Neutron.

I would actually compare Neutron to SGE --- both were just "overlays" on exisiting attractions (Buzz featured everything new). In the long run however, Neutron has been proven to be more successful.


A terribly done queue (nice idea but horrible execution)

I would not agree with that statement. The queue is perfect and is used like it should be. You ARE walking into the offices of the Daily Bugle, after all (and folks, this is based on the COMIC BOOK, not the MOVIE).
 

Legacy

Well-Known Member
What in the?

How in the WORLD did this turn into a Disney/Universal fight?

Crikey... is nothing safe from the opinionated wraith of a never-ending dispute?

:brick:


(I'm too tired to get involved in this one... the Stitch thing was my big fight for the month...)
 

Epcot82Guy

Well-Known Member
NemoRocks said:
I would actually compare Neutron to SGE --- both were just "overlays" on exisiting attractions (Buzz featured everything new). In the long run however, Neutron has been proven to be more successful.



I would not agree with that statement. The queue is perfect and is used like it should be. You ARE walking into the offices of the Daily Bugle, after all (and folks, this is based on the COMIC BOOK, not the MOVIE).
I guess just to defend my position a bit. I agree with the comparison in theory of SGE:Jimmy Neutron, but the ride-based attraction would be the only reason I think Buzz to Jimmy would be more appropriate along with the fact other circumstances surrounded the removal of AE (due to intensity) while Jimmy was replacement on basically low ridership-high maintenance (like Buzz was for its various precursors). However, I can see your point here as well.


As for the second statement, I just would point out I have NOT seen either Spiderman film, so I fully based it on the comic book series. I think that was where my good intent/bad execution point came in. Had things been made to look "cartoony" as in a comic book it could have been quite well done, but painting real things does not make them look like a comic book IMHO. It just didn't work like they intended I don't think. I also think this attraction REQUIRES a housed-in pre-show, not a loop. I know that is not Univ. Creative's usual approach on things, and it does not need to be. It just would have worked better IMHO.


Finally, just to put things in perspective, I put little stock in these surveys. They are not representative of what actually exists in the real world in that they tend to take perspectives of very knowledgeable people. Unlike major sports or music, that is not a large portion of the population that is very knowledgeable on theme park issues, so I hesitate to take their accounts. That is not a bash on them. They are great and well done for what they are; they simply are not in a position to be necessarily an "objective" source merely on their subject matter. Point in case, I will GUARANTEE you that a much higher percentage of the average population would correctly name the park chain that has Space Mountain or the Haunted Mansion over which one houses the Amazing Adventures of Spiderman or even ET or Jaws.
 

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