News EPCOT's Harmonious to be replaced with new nighttime spectacular Luminous

monothingie

Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
Premium Member
Every nighttime show goes through modifications. Harmonious didn't get a 2nd chance because the tech was fixed and an eyesore during the day. The flopped daytime fountains doomed the longevity of the show. They clearly could have edited Harmonious to integrate more Epcot theme and less IP for your taste. Sure there were other issues (show content, beverage sales, maintenance) - but all of it was fixable except the ugly infrastructure loomed in the lagoon all day. Harmonious did better than your beloved RoE with younger age groups. That's not an opinion.

If you want to throw Premium Member creds around here, I was also the first person (that I know of) that thought Harmonious wouldn't survive 2023 because of the barges. I say many stupid things on my podcast, but I got the one right for a change.

For you to say Luminous won't survive 18 months without even seeing what the fans think is pretty absurd. You made up your mind because of IP and that's that.
ROE lasted 19 years, despite years of neglect.

Harmonious was too big to fail, until it did. Everything done to "improve" during its development seemingly made it worse.

It seems that Disney is using IP as a crutch to cary the show. IP won't be the sole reason why the show won't be a long term thing at Epco, I think more broadly Luminous just seems like it's going to be fail for just being mediocre.

I remember @wdwmagic being excited for the potential of the show. Then we heard about it being scaled back. Perhaps they just wanted to avoid the mess of repeating H! again so they played it safe.
 
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monothingie

Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
Premium Member
You haven't seen the show. You're choosing to be angry over something you haven't even experienced. Take a chill pill and wait until December 5th.
Again attacking me (I don't mind). Perhaps you could try explaining why you're excited about the show and what potentially in it makes you excited, and why you think the show is going to be great.

Tell me why I should get excited for this show!
 

jrhwdw

Well-Known Member
ROE lasted 19 years, despite years of neglect.

Harmonious was too big to fail, until it did. Everything done to "improve" during its development seemingly made it worse.

It seems that Disney is using IP as a crutch to cary the show. IP won't be the sole reason why the show won't be a long term thing at Epco, I think more broadly Luminous just seems like it's going to be fail for just being mediocre.

I remember @wdwmagic being excited for the potential of the show. Then we heard about it being scaled back. Perhaps they just wanted to avoid the mess of repeating H! again so they played it safe.

Podcaster? My condolences.
I believe Steve is still excited for Luminous. At first he thought Drones were coming then that got cut.
 

JD80

Well-Known Member
It was reported by insiders that Luminous is very similar to H! Its infrastructure is smaller and cheaper what was implemented in H!. (Fact)

The Show was scaled back. (Fact). Again insiders have repeated that there have from conceptualization to execution, the show has been scaled back significantly. This was likely attributed to the crazy operational costs that H! had that they did not want to continue.

IP Driven Generic Show. It is the same repeated structure for integrating IP similar to what HEA, Enchantment, H! and others have done. It follows the same format as H!, HEA, and Enchament by sandwiching IP based content between one or two original scores/songs.

In all honesty you've just been attacking me, rather than defending what is being put out by Disney. Perhaps you should set higher standards for yourself.

I haven't defended anything. I'm looking forward to seeing this show in person in just over a month and I'll make a judgement then. You're the one being definitive in your statements.

The show could suck. But we don't know that yet. Is it a Happily Ever After or is it an Enchantment?
 

monothingie

Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
Premium Member
I believe Steve is still excited for Luminous. At first he thought Drones were coming then that got cut.
I honestly have no idea what his current outlook on the show is. I mean I'm hopeful it will at least be better than the interim show we have now. Otherwise Epcot Forever, may come back again, and actually be Forever?
 

bmr1591

Well-Known Member
Again attacking me (I don't mind). Perhaps you could try explaining why you're excited about the show and what potentially in it makes you excited, and why you think the show is going to be great.

Tell me why I should get excited for this show!

No one is attacking you. We're simply saying that you're angry over something you haven't seen. I'm not saying you have to be thrilled about it or that it'll even be good, but you haven't seen the show. You may very well end up correct and this be an awful show that gets terrible reviews and is replaced in 12 months. You may end up wrong. But we won't know that until December 5th.
 

JD80

Well-Known Member
Tell me why I should get excited for this show!

There is a new night time spectacular coming to a WDW theme park. Reason enough to be excited and hope for the best in my opinion.

Any time WDW gets a large investment I get excited. But I'm an optimist. If you want to be pessimistic that's fine but you're the one being an absolutist.

Enchantment was mediocre in my view. I was excited for it, but once I saw it on TV at it's release I was pretty disappointed with it, and doubly so when I finally saw it in person. Harmonious was a fantastic show in my view if you got to see it from the right angle and the crowds weren't awful. Otherwise is was ugly during the day and a waste of time if you couldn't see it dead on.
 

monothingie

Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
Premium Member
You're the one being definitive in your statements.
Have you paid attention to their track record with these things over the past 5 years (not counting COVID years of course)? It's not been great. The Win/Loss stats aren't exactly in Disney's favor for excellent nighttime entertainment. HEA has been the only win. So the expectations are low...very low.
 

JD80

Well-Known Member
Have you paid attention to their track record with these things over the past 5 years (not counting COVID years of course)? It's not been great. The Win/Loss stats aren't exactly in Disney's favor for excellent nighttime entertainment. HEA has been the only win. So the expectations are low...very low.

HEA and HEA v2 are pretty great. The Fantasmic updates are really good. Enchantment was a bummer and Harmonious was a disaster once those barges were permanent but the show itself was pretty good in my opinion.

All the shows in Disneyland Paris over the last few years are fantastic too. I can't speak to the shows/updates out in California or in Asia.
 

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
It seems that Disney is using IP as a crutch to cary the show. IP won't be the sole reason why the show won't be a long term thing at Epco, I think more broadly Luminous just seems like it's going to be fail for just being mediocre.

I remember @wdwmagic being excited for the potential of the show. Then we heard about it being scaled back. Perhaps they just wanted to avoid the mess of repeating H! again so they played it safe.
I’m not sure why you think they’ll revert to EPCOT Forever when it utilizes the even more esoteric crutch of long-defunct attractions.
 

monothingie

Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
Premium Member
There is a new night time spectacular coming to a WDW theme park. Reason enough to be excited and hope for the best in my opinion.
Perhaps they should charge more for that. Oh right...
Any time WDW gets a large investment I get excited. But I'm an optimist. If you want to be pessimistic that's fine but you're the one being an absolutist.
H! was a large investment. Enchantment was a large investment. The thing at DAK that no one remembers which preceded the Kite shows only lasted a couple of months was a large investment. So not really good gauge of success.
Enchantment was mediocre in my view. I was excited for it, but once I saw it on TV at it's release I was pretty disappointed with it, and doubly so when I finally saw it in person. Harmonious was a fantastic show in my view if you got to see it from the right angle and the crowds weren't awful. Otherwise is was ugly during the day and a waste of time if you couldn't see it dead on.
I saw the both shows on their official openings and/or previews in person. H! didn't improve with adjusting vantage points.
 

TTA94

Well-Known Member
I do agree there is a lot of potential for WSL to have a mind blowing huge nighttime show, basically WoC on steroids plus fireworks, drones, new color changing pavilion lighting, pavilion projections. Yes it all would cost more than Harmonious did but it will be very well received.
 

Vinnie Mac

Well-Known Member
Makes sense, but it would be nice to know that EF really isn't needed anymore. That would mean Epcot did the right thing with Luminous. And nothing in TWDC better hurt Luminous!!!!
I'm sure an insider will come through eventually and prove me wrong on this but I highly doubt we'll ever see Epcot Forever again. If any other shows other than L:SOU plays over that lagoon within this decade it's going to be an updated ROE.
 

Vinnie Mac

Well-Known Member
I remember @wdwmagic being excited for the potential of the show. Then we heard about it being scaled back. Perhaps they just wanted to avoid the mess of repeating H! again so they played it safe.
That "scaled back" aspect was a single element of the show he himself said he didn't feel like it would change the overall quality of the show just that it sucked not having whatever we were supposed to get. You keep saying the show was dramatically scaled back like we were supposed to get a WoC fountain package and an earth globe.
 

jrhwdw

Well-Known Member
I'm sure an insider will come through eventually and prove me wrong on this but I highly doubt we'll ever see Epcot Forever again. If any other shows other than L:SOU plays over that lagoon within this decade it's going to be an updated ROE.
I'm all for seeing ROE again but do you think Epcot will want to go back to ROE or will Epcot be forced to?
 

mattpeto

Well-Known Member
ROE lasted 19 years, despite years of neglect.

Harmonious was too big to fail, until it did. Everything done to "improve" during its development seemingly made it worse.

It seems that Disney is using IP as a crutch to cary the show. IP won't be the sole reason why the show won't be a long term thing at Epco, I think more broadly Luminous just seems like it's going to be fail for just being mediocre.

I remember @wdwmagic being excited for the potential of the show. Then we heard about it being scaled back. Perhaps they just wanted to avoid the mess of repeating H! again so they played it safe.

Podcaster? My condolences.
 

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monorail81

Well-Known Member
I'm all for seeing ROE again but do you think Epcot will want to go back to ROE or will Epcot be forced to?
I don’t think they will ever go back to ROE because that will be admitting failure. Whereas the narrative for Harmonious was simply changed to be a limited offering instead of a failed show.
 

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