Epcot Money Grab

[EpcoTim]

You get all that, the park closes at 9pm, that is known before you step foot in it that day, heck it's known months before. This does nothing to change that at all.

This all occurs after 9pm, when the park is closed. So your day and your ticket is effected not at all.

I can justify it because I want to do it. It 100% my choice. You clearly do not want to do it, thats fine. Why does it bother you that I do?

Who said I didn't want to do it? I said that I'll simply pay for my ticket and worry about my food and drink on my own.

On one hand I get it, the up charge will keep the kids and lightweights out of Epcot. On the other hand it's a slap in the face to charge twice for simply keeping the gates open.

 

[BigTxEars]

Yeah, but you get to attend events you normally wouldn't. With the Epcot deal you get nothing, absolutely nothing that you couldn't get otherwise.

Not true, I will get a practically empty WS, a nice table by the water and food and drink to wind down from the day. The food and drink I could get anyways but it would not be in a practically empty WS under normal circumstances. Where am I wrong?

 

[BigTxEars]

Who said I didn't want to do it? I said that I'll simply pay for my ticket and worry about my food and drink on my own.

On one hand I get it, the up charge will keep the kids and lightweights out of Epcot. On the other hand it's a slap in the face to charge twice for simply keeping the gates open.

If I misunderstood you I am sorry. No offense meant.

The money to me is to cover the food, drink and the staff who would normally not be there till 11pm.

Not sure about the lightweights keeping out, after a couple of drinks I am pretty much done for

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Again how does it differ than what Walt did at DL when it opened? The more money you were willing to spend there the more you were able to do. Same thing here. Again if you wanted to ride more attractions at DL you paid more, if you want to eat, drink and be at WS after if closes you pay more here. I fail to see any difference. Do you?

So its a heritage thang? Cool putting the edjakashun back into Epcot. I love Walt, and if it was good enough for him Im right behind it all the way.

 

[BigTxEars]

I'm sure the $35 is a real value for the "small bites" and "beverage flight" you'll receive. Can't wait to see the portions once the first event happens (if I had to guess, I'd wager they'll be tiny). And of course, they'll let you buy more drinks.

Epcot would still close at 9pm, but on peak days it should be closing at 11pm anyway. It's what popular theme parks do on peak days...everywhere but WDW.

Well since you asked, yes, MNSSHP and MVMCP are BAD for guests. At every other Disney theme park in the world, Halloween and Christmas festivities are included with your park admission and available to all guests. DLR has a Halloween party, but it doesn't include anything that's not available during the day except for fireworks and candy (it's not much of an event, and they should ditch it too). TDO has used them as a way to squeeze more money out of guests while limiting MK hours to the general public. Genius, really, but guests do lose. You'd never look at MVMCP the same way again if you spent a day at DLR during Christmas - both parks have Christmas parades and nighttime spectaculars available to all guests, plus ride overlays WDW is too lazy to even try.

Guests LOVE all sorts of things that are bad - it's not a valid metric. Guests would love not having to shell out an extra $300 for the family to see the Christmas parade too - they just don't know any other way, so the MVMCP is magical. Did you know that in 2005 MVMCP cost $38.95 for an adult (advance purchase price)? In 2013 it was $67 or $62 depending on the party date. In that time, the MVMCP offerings have decreased - so, explain to me how that's not outright greed/number propping? It's just one example - ticket, event ticket, food and hotel prices have skyrocketed over the past 10 years or so.

The link to MM+ isn't conjecture, but if you want to believe that, it's fine. Just keep looking out for more hard ticket upcharge things at WDW - they're on their way, and will continue to pile up. TDO won't stop at anything to cover their butts with the moneypit that is MM+, and since failure is not an option, that 11% guest spending increase has to come from somewhere (and it won't happen organically from people buying marked up rubber bracelet dongles).

You saying what you think should occur not what does. Fact is that Epcot closes at 9pm these days this event occurs, and it is not because this event is going on. Therefore this effects Epcot ticket holder 0% in the real world. Nobody is losing on this event. If you want it buy it, if not then don't. If you think the ones buying it are losing then again that effects you 0% so why would you possibly care.

Your opinion about the holiday parties do not seem to be shared by most, they are wildly popular with guest. You seem to be in the minority in you views on them. How can you explain their popularity if they are so "bad" for guest.....oh wait let me guess....they just don't know any better right....but you do....right?

Who knows about the food portion or drink sizes, your conjecture is just that. Disney is not known for small food portions, if anything they stuff you on the DDP. Time will tell. I certainly hope I can buy more drinks.

I'm not going to argue MM with you, again your conjecture is just that. You don't know what you don't know....your guess are as valid as anybody else's but guess they are non the less.

I hope WDW continues to give me the option as a guest to pay for things that I want, or not too if I do not want them. Again it's how Walt opened DL and it seem to be a pretty successful business model.

 

[flynnibus]

Not true, I will get a practically empty WS, a nice table by the water and food and drink to wind down from the day. The food and drink I could get anyways but it would not be in a practically empty WS under normal circumstances. Where am I wrong?

Nothing builds atmosphere like emptiness, rigid options, and paid obligations.

We should really give Disney a pat on the back for letting you pay to do what you used to be able to do on your own accord... drawn in by entertainment, company, and place setting.

 

[BigTxEars]

Nothing builds atmosphere like emptiness, rigid options, and paid obligations.

We should really give Disney a pat on the back for letting you pay to do what you used to be able to do on your own accord... drawn in by entertainment, company, and place setting.

After a full day in the parks with crowds..yeah a empty WS is a nice place to wind down......

 

[flynnibus]

After a full day in the parks with crowds..yeah a empty WS is a nice place to wind down......

Well before.. you had 2 hrs after future world closed to do the same on your own without any 'cover charge'. Now Disney cuts back, and after a while offers new 'pay to play' options in the place of general availability. And you act like they are offering you a sweet deal..

 

[BigTxEars]

Well before.. you had 2 hrs after future world closed to do the same on your own without any 'cover charge'. Now Disney cuts back, and after a while offers new 'pay to play' options in the place of general availability. And you act like they are offering you a sweet deal..

Before when?

From what I have seen they close those resturants down pretty close to 9pm these days. Maybe I missed them staying open recently for drinks and snacks?

 

[cw1982]

Can't we all just get along... for a minute anyway?

 

[flynnibus]

Before when?

Back when EPCOT was a 9pm/11pm schedule.

 

[BigTxEars]

Can't we all just get along... for a minute anyway?

LOL I don't know. Lot's of Disney hate going on here, if you dare to disagree you get pounced on it seems. Funny thing is with this subject is that this event changes nothing. If you want to roam around WS after 9pm you still can for no extra $ from what I have seen. Regardless of this event WS will close at 9pm like it does nightly.

People who want can spend their money and buy a seat, food and drink. 100% optional and still some how is something to bash WDW about by some on here.

If you want to debate the NSSHP and Christmas party closing the parks early at least there is a point there to be made as the parks do indeed close earlier than they normally would to "regular" guest.

This event effects no one unless they want it to.

Well except for the "poor people" at WDW like that one guy brought up

 

[BigTxEars]

Back when EPCOT was a 9pm/11pm schedule.

When was that? And what does that have to do with this event? Did WDW start closing WS earlier back then so they could not open it back up for a cover charge now? Is that the ideal of what is going on here?

 

[cw1982]

LOL I don't know. Lot's of Disney hate going on here, if you dare to disagree you get pounced on it seems. Funny thing is with this subject is that this event changes nothing. If you want to roam around WS after 9pm you still can for no extra $ from what I have seen. Regardless of this event WS will close at 9pm like it does nightly.

People who want can spend their money and buy a seat, food and drink. 100% optional and still some how is something to bash WDW about by some on here.

If you want to debate the NSSHP and Christmas party closing the parks early at least there is a point there to be made as the parks do indeed close earlier than they normally would to "regular" guest.

This event effects no one unless they want it to.

Well except for the "poor people" at WDW like that one guy brought up

Yeah, I made a point to ignore the "poor people" comment. I'm a lowly teacher who is finally climbing out of an unemployment slump, and DH is a probation officer who is looking to more into a police force in the near future. But I guess our incomes make us not deserving of a trip to WDW... lol. If we've figured out how to pay for it, we should be free to enjoy it. That's nobody's business but our own. It's not like I'm using any kind of government handouts to pay for it... heck, even when I was unemployed we didn't even qualify for anything like that.

Anyway, I see the side that says that, instead of forcing everyone out unless they have ADR's for drinks and appetizers at a fixed minimum purchase, WS should just be open later. I actually agree with this. However, I see nothing wrong with those who want to partake in the current setup taking advantage of it. It's your money, and if that's a good use of your money and time, then go for it. Doesn't work for me, but my situation is different from yours, which is different from the next guy's, so no reason why we all have to have the same approach.

Bottom line: this is how Disney is choosing to add to their profits, and we, as guests, can choose how to respond. Doesn't mean we have to like it or dislike it... it is what it is.

 

[cw1982]

When was that? And what does that have to do with this event? Did WDW start closing WS earlier back then so they could not open it back up for a cover charge now? Is that the ideal of what is going on here?

That seems to be what some here are implying.

 

[flynnibus]

When was that? And what does that have to do with this event? Did WDW start closing WS earlier back then so they could not open it back up for a cover charge now? Is that the ideal of what is going on here?

My point is as I stated earlier... instead of offering paid per head rigid offerings IN LEIU of operating an open, inviting, energetic night time entertainment complex... do the latter.

 

[BigTxEars]

Yeah, I made a point to ignore the "poor people" comment. I'm a lowly teacher who is finally climbing out of an unemployment slump, and DH is a probation officer who is looking to more into a police force in the near future. But I guess our incomes make us not deserving of a trip to WDW... lol. If we've figured out how to pay for it, we should be free to enjoy it. That's nobody's business but our own. It's not like I'm using any kind of government handouts to pay for it... heck, even when I was unemployed we didn't even qualify for anything like that.

Anyway, I see the side that says that, instead of forcing everyone out unless they have ADR's for drinks and appetizers at a fixed minimum purchase, WS should just be open later. I actually agree with this. However, I see nothing wrong with those who want to partake in the current setup taking advantage of it. It's your money, and if that's a good use of your money and time, then go for it. Doesn't work for me, but my situation is different from yours, which is different from the next guy's, so no reason why we all have to have the same approach.

Bottom line: this is how Disney is choosing to add to their profits, and we, as guests, can choose how to respond. Doesn't mean we have to like it or dislike it... it is what it is.

As far I as know they are not forcing anybody out o the WS any earlier than they normally do. The reservations just get you a seat, booze and food I have not seen anything to say otherwise anyways.

I would be fine with WS being opened till midnight if that is what WDW wanted to do. But they are not, nor have they anytime recently. If they were closing WS at 8pm instead of 9pm nightly to start charging folks who wanted to stay an extras cover then that is one debate. But they are doing nothing like that. They took a closed park and said for x dollars you can do this if you want.

In fact you can get in WS (or any of the parks for that matter) early each morning if you have ADRs for breakfast correct? And since you have to pay for breakfast you are in fact paying your way into the park before a "regular" guest right? How is this any different? This is just the same thing on the other end of the day.

To me this is just one more thing for some (a vocal minority) on here to bash on WDW, if you challenge them they really gent bent out of shape.

I am pretty much in the camp that if you are going to WDW then you do not qualify as a poor person to me. I have been as broke as can be in my life, when I was luxury items were eating out at fast food, they were certainly not going to expensive theme parks. Maybe my definition is out of date.

 

[BigTxEars]

My point is as I stated earlier... instead of offering paid per head rigid offerings IN LEIU of operating an open, inviting, energetic night time entertainment complex... do the latter.

Well I would suggest that WDW knows better than you or I what is the best business model for them to follow. Again it's there if you want it, or not.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

You saying what you think should occur not what does. Fact is that Epcot closes at 9pm these days this event occurs, and it is not because this event is going on. Therefore this effects Epcot ticket holder 0% in the real world. Nobody is losing on this event. If you want it buy it, if not then don't. If you think the ones buying it are losing then again that effects you 0% so why would you possibly care.

Your opinion about the holiday parties do not seem to be shared by most, they are wildly popular with guest. You seem to be in the minority in you views on them. How can you explain their popularity if they are so "bad" for guest.....oh wait let me guess....they just don't know any better right....but you do....right?

The sad thing about guests is that they're easy to please. This means that TDO can get away with the minimal level of effort, and still turn around and crow about how "guest satisfaction rates have never been higher!"

It's not a hard question. If I asked the average guest, hey, would you rather pay $300 for the privilege of seeing the Christmas parade tonight, or would you rather the park stay open til midnight and you can see the parade for free? If anyone answers that they'd rather pay $300, they're insane. So yes, I do know better on this point.

Similarly, if a family of random guests is shown the Main Street Electrical Parade (which is missing several floats, depending on the night you see it), they may crow about how magical and wonderful it is, despite the fact that it's over 40 years old, poorly maintained and doesn't feature a character created after 1977. However, if a brand new, cutting edge light parade premiered with breathtaking floats covering Snow White to Frozen, they would be even MORE impressed. So which is better? MSEP or a brand new incredible parade? The answer is easy: brand new incredible parade. Guests are happy with both - that doesn't mean they're equal options.

I could go on, but suffice to say guest popularity doesn't equal quality. Guests love the Beauty and the Beast show at DHS - it's 20+ years old and is about as community theater as it gets. It should be replaced with a better show, despite its popularity. They'd love a better show even more.

Guests love Be Our Guest restaurant - they'd love a thrilling Beauty and the Beast ride even more. Guests love the Tangled potties with their lush theming - they'd love a lushly themed Tangled ride even more. Guests love Pirates of the Caribbean - they'd love it even more if all the animatronics worked.

Guests love Expedition Everest, but they'd love it more if the Yeti moved like it's supposed to. Guests love Figment, but they'd love him more if his ride wasn't such a half-assed shadow of its former self.

Guests love paying out the nose for Halloween and Christmas parties, but they'd love getting to experience them at no extra cost even more. This isn't a hard game to play, and sadly, you can play it all over WDW these days.

Who knows about the food portion or drink sizes, your conjecture is just that. Disney is not known for small food portions, if anything they stuff you on the DDP. Time will tell. I certainly hope I can buy more drinks.

I'm not going to argue MM with you, again your conjecture is just that. You don't know what you don't know....your guess are as valid as anybody else's but guess they are non the less.

I hope WDW continues to give me the option as a guest to pay for things that I want, or not too if I do not want them. Again it's how Walt opened DL and it seem to be a pretty successful business model.

The food/drink portions thing is conjecture, so it's a wait and see situation. The MM+ stuff isn't conjecture, but since this is the internet, I have no way of proving it. Believe me or don't, but there's a reason this is the second high priced specialty dining event introduced at Epcot in the past couple months. And there will be more high priced hard ticket things coming - new and exciting ways to squeeze extra dollars out of guest pockets to make their numbers look better than they actually are.

For the record, I'm not trying to be mean-spirited or to jump on you - but you should know that your visions of TDO/WDW being so altruistic are far from the truth. Their goal is to give you as little as possible for as much money as you're willing to hand them, nothing more - it's an undeniable pattern in almost every aspect of the resort's operations.

 

[BigTxEars]

The sad thing about guests is that they're easy to please. This means that TDO can get away with the minimal level of effort, and still turn around and crow about how "guest satisfaction rates have never been higher!"

It's not a hard question. If I asked the average guest, hey, would you rather pay $300 for the privilege of seeing the Christmas parade tonight, or would you rather the park stay open til midnight and you can see the parade for free? If anyone answers that they'd rather pay $300, they're insane. So yes, I do know better on this point.

Similarly, if a family of random guests is shown the Main Street Electrical Parade (which is missing several floats, depending on the night you see it), they may crow about how magical and wonderful it is, despite the fact that it's over 40 years old, poorly maintained and doesn't feature a character created after 1977. However, if a brand new, cutting edge light parade premiered with breathtaking floats covering Snow White to Frozen, they would be even MORE impressed. So which is better? MSEP or a brand new incredible parade? The answer is easy: brand new incredible parade. Guests are happy with both - that doesn't mean they're equal options.

I could go on, but suffice to say guest popularity doesn't equal quality. Guests love the Beauty and the Beast show at DHS - it's 20+ years old and is about as community theater as it gets. It should be replaced with a better show, despite its popularity. They'd love a better show even more.

Guests love Be Our Guest restaurant - they'd love a thrilling Beauty and the Beast ride even more. Guests love the Tangled potties with their lush theming - they'd love a lushly themed Tangled ride even more. Guests love Pirates of the Caribbean - they'd love it even more if all the animatronics worked.

Guests love Expedition Everest, but they'd love it more if the Yeti moved like it's supposed to. Guests love Figment, but they'd love him more if his ride wasn't such a half-assed shadow of its former self.

Guests love paying out the nose for Halloween and Christmas parties, but they'd love getting to experience them at no extra cost even more. This isn't a hard game to play, and sadly, you can play it all over WDW these days.



The food/drink portions thing is conjecture, so it's a wait and see situation. The MM+ stuff isn't conjecture, but since this is the internet, I have no way of proving it. Believe me or don't, but there's a reason this is the second high priced specialty dining event introduced at Epcot in the past couple months. And there will be more high priced hard ticket things coming - new and exciting ways to squeeze extra dollars out of guest pockets to make their numbers look better than they actually are.

For the record, I'm not trying to be mean-spirited or to jump on you - but you should know that your visions of TDO/WDW being so altruistic are far from the truth. Their goal is to give you as little as possible for as much money as you're willing to hand them, nothing more - it's an undeniable pattern in almost every aspect of the resort's operations.

Trying to get more money from the guest when they want to do more is not new, as I have already posted it started in Disneyland the day it opened. Walt was knee deep in it as well, so all the imagery of Walt turning over in his grave because of WDW today is baseless IMO.

It's been at WDW since day one as well. Want a cool set of Mickey ears to wear, pay more, want to stay on the monorail resorts, pay more, want a back scene tour, pay more, want to interact with the sea animals at Epcot, pay more, want to eat on property, with a view of the MK pay more....

Like I said this is even not new, I could get into Epcot earlier than a "normal" guest tomorrow morning if I had ADRs for breakfast, which would cost me more.....this wind down the exact same thing as the breakfast ADR.....no difference at all.

WDW is a business, I expect them to try and get my money. As long as what they do to get that money is up front and left for me to decide if I want to spend that money then I am fine with it. They start sucking funds off of my MB without me knowing then the mouse and I have an issue

Either way we are not going to agree on this. I am done defending my choice to give WDW $70 for drinks and food. If someone still does not like it then all I can say is I will think of them as I suck back some wine and chicken rolls that night