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Epcot is a shell of its former self.

Big Phil

Well-Known Member
Full disclosure, I'm not quite sure what side of the discussion you're on. As has been said in other replies even the Epcot of 1982 has nothing to do with Walt Disney, the man himself, and his vision. I'm sure he'd have had a line about the park never being completed and always evolving, etc., and that's fine. There's just no original stories or original rides anymore. I'm thrilled that your son likes the modern version of Epcot, I don't take anything away from people that enjoy the park in its current form. Everyone's different. Somewhere along the way in the late 90s, budgets were cut and things went off track, and I don't know what Epcot is anymore.

Epcot will never be the Epcot of the 80s and 90s again, because that doesn't sell tickets (and apparently didn't sell tickets to the company's satisfaction even in the 80s and 90s). There's been implications that the lukewarm response to Rivers of Light (a nighttime show with no Intellectual Property/characters attached) is what forced characters into the future Epcot nighttime show. They have to leverage this IP that they've spent billions on.

Future World has just been suffering for years with old, outdated, uninspiring attractions and it's frustrating because it used to be the most cohesively themed land in WDW. There's very little to distinguish Epcot and DHS from MK anymore. I recognize that doesn't bother everyone, and that's OK too; theme parks are meant to be enjoyed for what they are. It would've made plenty of sense to keep the "classic" Disney characters in MK, make DHS a "ride the movies" hyper-modern park (dump all the Marvel stuff there, Star Wars, hell, tell me Tron wouldn't have made just as much sense in Hollywood Studios) and keep Epcot as the Science, Discovery and World Cultures park. Once upon a time it felt like Disney cared about the park having an identity.
I think compared to back in the day it is losing an identity. No doubt. I remember it in the 1990s and ironically I didn't like it all that much. I was 14-15 the first time I saw it, it is quite possible I just didn't appreciate it until I grew up. I felt the same way about the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown when I was 13.

That being said, to this day, in its current form, is there any other place that is close to being similar as Epcot? If you saw it for the first time what would you compare it to? I can't think of anything.

Sometimes I think we have to look at the park through a first-timer's eyes too. My cousin came with us on our last trip. Never been to WDW but is a Disneyland veteran. He loved WDW and quite frankly loved Epcot as much as anything. He just loved wandering around the countries and getting a feel for it. Or seeing things that are still pretty unique outside of Epcot. American Adventure to this day is still very unique. He loved the balance that Epcot had. Maybe he liked MK better, I am not sure, but he loved Epcot.
 

AJDMB05

Active Member
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I think compared to back in the day it is losing an identity. No doubt. I remember it in the 1990s and ironically I didn't like it all that much. I was 14-15 the first time I saw it, it is quite possible I just didn't appreciate it until I grew up. I felt the same way about the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown when I was 13.

That being said, to this day, in its current form, is there any other place that is close to being similar as Epcot? If you saw it for the first time what would you compare it to? I can't think of anything.

Sometimes I think we have to look at the park through a first-timer's eyes too. My cousin came with us on our last trip. Never been to WDW but is a Disneyland veteran. He loved WDW and quite frankly loved Epcot as much as anything. He just loved wandering around the countries and getting a feel for it. Or seeing things that are still pretty unique outside of Epcot. American Adventure to this day is still very unique. He loved the balance that Epcot had. Maybe he liked MK better, I am not sure, but he loved Epcot.
You're absolutely right that there isn't a theme park like Epcot out there, but I don't know if that's necessarily a positive review. I think it's unique because it's very disjointed now. You've got a largely-unchanged series of countries represented which most everyone loves, and rides in various states of renovation or decay. Some of them still represent old Epcot's commitment to a theme, some got characters shoehorned into them (Seas) and some are representative of the new park direction (GotG, Play). It's not 9 pavilions with uniform logos and branding all staying in their lane and teaching you about one aspect of the world.

I was just out in Orlando for work last month and a couple co-workers who dislike theme parks, crowds, etc. went to Epcot to just hit the countries and eat/drink around the world. I think for a while that was their audience and that was enough, attendance-wise. It's no accident they have basically year-round festivals. It just means that leadership seemed OK with letting the other half of the park age and decay, now it just looks sad.
 

LaughingGravy

Well-Known Member
The idea of an ever changing park is fine, but I would like to think that part of that ever changing aspect is changing to make it better, and to increase capacity to match all the hotels they added. Soarin' is only loosely tied to the idea of The Land.
There's no way they could have kept Kitchen Cabaret as a people sponge?
What about "the blessing of space", as Walt put it? Journey Into Imagination is simply bad now, its worst incarnation ever.
World of Motion was a people sponge as well with its more or less omnimover system.
The addition of really cool attractions year after year was what kept our family going back.
I remember when Horizons was added. We went back. Same for Wonders of Life. We went back. Morocco. Same.
When Magic Journeys was replaced by Captain EO, that was another reason to go. The addition of Norway.
Things were exciting and new. Universe of Energy, while on the sleepy side sometimes with subject matter, was at least a spectacle of ride engineering and visually entertaining.

Test Track was/still is a snooze fest and is a sad replacement as a people loading nightmare requiring fastpasses or ridiculous lines for what used to be an entertaining visual adventure in transportation history.
Oooh, 65 MPH in an open top vehicle that is oh, a car. Look out for that truck!
I just watched videos of the full ride, both versions original as well as the newer one with the TRON lights and the germ breeding ground touch screens.
I did experience both in person, but I just watched to make sure I remembered it correctly.
It looked like my commute in NJ, with the only difference being heat and freezing not being in the same minute, but hours apart. NY and NJ folk on this forum would likely agree. The uphill climb test? DD's 2001 car has ABS as a standard feature and had it back then when the attraction opened.

Mission Space made me and DD sick to the point of ruining half the day and I'm a pilot.

I still do like the countries, but I miss the multiple boats and omnibus double decker buses.
 

aladdin2007

Well-Known Member
The idea of an ever changing park is fine, but I would like to think that part of that ever changing aspect is changing to make it better, and to increase capacity to match all the hotels they added. Soarin' is only loosely tied to the idea of The Land.
There's no way they could have kept Kitchen Cabaret as a people sponge?
What about "the blessing of space", as Walt put it? Journey Into Imagination is simply bad now, its worst incarnation ever.
World of Motion was a people sponge as well with its more or less omnimover system.
The addition of really cool attractions year after year was what kept our family going back.
I remember when Horizons was added. We went back. Same for Wonders of Life. We went back. Morocco. Same.
When Magic Journeys was replaced by Captain EO, that was another reason to go. The addition of Norway.
Things were exciting and new. Universe of Energy, while on the sleepy side sometimes with subject matter, was at least a spectacle of ride engineering and visually entertaining.

Test Track was/still is a snooze fest and is a sad replacement as a people loading nightmare requiring fastpasses or ridiculous lines for what used to be an entertaining visual adventure in transportation history.
Oooh, 65 MPH in an open top vehicle that is oh, a car. Look out for that truck!
I just watched videos of the full ride, both versions original as well as the newer one with the TRON lights and the germ breeding ground touch screens.
I did experience both in person, but I just watched to make sure I remembered it correctly.
It looked like my commute in NJ, with the only difference being heat and freezing not being in the same minute, but hours apart. NY and NJ folk on this forum would likely agree. The uphill climb test? DD's 2001 car has ABS as a standard feature and had it back then when the attraction opened.

Mission Space made me and DD sick to the point of ruining half the day and I'm a pilot.

I still do like the countries, but I miss the multiple boats and omnibus double decker buses.
I agree, they were very charming, cant have charming anymore since food and drinking everywhere is the focus.

My concern is how World Showcase still does not open till 11am. The park today was beyond crowded with flower and garden weekend, hordes of people lined up waiting at Mexico and yet none of it aside from frozen opens till 11am. That's really a rip off to the paying customer. At least on weekends or during these hectic crowded festivals they could have the entire park operating. It really looks bad plus they could be making even more money.... By the time the gondola's are running and Ratatouille is open, they are going to need to rethink some of that.
 
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AJH219

Well-Known Member
Yes, Epcot is by far the worst park at WDW. Besides Spaceship Earth and the American Adventure, there is absolutely NOTHING compelling at this place. It's a total embarrassment.
 

mouse_luv

Well-Known Member
I agree, they were very charming, cant have charming anymore since food and drinking everywhere is the focus.

My concern is how World Showcase still does not open till 11am. The park today was beyond crowded with flower and garden weekend, hordes of people lined up waiting at Mexico and yet none of it aside from frozen opens till 11am. That's really a rip off to the paying customer. At least on weekends or during these hectic crowded festivals they could have the entire park operating. It really looks bad plus they could be making even more money.... By the time the gondola's are running and Ratatouille is open, they are going to need to rethink some of that.
Well technically, the WS opens to Norway on one side and France on the other side at 9 am with the rest of the park.
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
I agree, they were very charming, cant have charming anymore since food and drinking everywhere is the focus.

My concern is how World Showcase still does not open till 11am. The park today was beyond crowded with flower and garden weekend, hordes of people lined up waiting at Mexico and yet none of it aside from frozen opens till 11am. That's really a rip off to the paying customer. At least on weekends or during these hectic crowded festivals they could have the entire park operating. It really looks bad plus they could be making even more money.... By the time the gondola's are running and Ratatouille is open, they are going to need to rethink some of that.
WS opening at 11 isn't new. It's been that way for something like 20 years. If anything, park hours are more than what the used to be because the entirety of Future World used to close at 7pm.
 

mouse_luv

Well-Known Member
yeah but just those two locations, everything else is closed except frozen, akershus, and the france bakery.
I know this and that's why I replied the way I did. The WS is my fave but there's nothing too exciting to really do before 11am there anyway since it's mostly shopping and food and 3/4ths of the year stupid kiosks.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
What's most frustrating is that additions like Sum of All Thrills, Awesome Planet and the Space restaurant prove that Disney IS capable of bringing new things to the park that do not undermine its theme or potential, but for the major headlines they choose not too.

The only thing more lazy than adding Superheroes or Pixar clones to Epcot are the fans who defend them as fine because they can't think of anything else to put there.
 

networkpro

Well-Known Member
What's most frustrating is that additions like Sum of All Thrills, Awesome Planet and the Space restaurant prove that Disney IS capable of bringing new things to the park that do not undermine its theme or potential, but for the major headlines they choose not too.

The only thing more lazy than adding Superheroes or Pixar clones to Epcot are the fans who defend them as fine because they can't think of anything else to put there.
Umm no. They're addinging things that will draw in and engage guests, not a handful of historians. Edutainment is a concept thats not too successful.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
Pretty sure if they were adding "edutainment" style rides, the same people defending Groot would be OK with that too.

Like if Disney announced today that Imagination was going back to something like it's former self would the people who constantly post (incorrectly) that "Epcot was unpopular in the 80s and needed to go" start complaining? NO. They'd be happy just to get something new from Disney, as most people would.
 
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