News Epcot Forever to debut as interim show before full Reflections of Earth replacement

[Captain Barbossa]

To everyone giving this a pass for being temporary, don’t forget what @stitchcastle mentioned earlier, that RoE was originally a temporary show, only to last a year.

There also wasn't a new show already in the works when RoE debuted either, (someone correct me if I'm wrong) which gave them more of a reason to keep it running, especially since it turned out to be a success. Not defending HarmonioUS at all, but it's been about a year since they've started working on it and they're pretty invested in it at this point. With that being said, and with the direction that EPCOT and the company is headed in, I don't believe that they'll postpone or scrap HarmonioUS just so this abomination of a "love letter to EPCOT" can run longer than planned.

 

[xdan0920]

I get why people don't like it...but there should be nothing confusing about why it was included in the end. The message is clear.

Crystal clear.

More Disney.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Only if you're ignorant.

you’re telling me that the GP, with no prior knowledge of the show... would get the show as long as they aren’t... ignorant? Come on now. The story was convoluted and not easy to follow, it’s okay to recognize that nostalgia blinds.

 

[Brer Oswald]

Good question, but I prefer Cinderella Castle during the day and I loved World Showcase at night. Watching Reflections of Earth on video is not the same as it was experiencing it in person. Granted, I’ve been to Disney World many times since I was in the womb and I don’t know how it is to have a once in a lifetime trip to the parks. I don’t care for Happily Ever After. It gives me an excuse to leave Magic Kingdom early and beat the exit crowds. I think it has a lot of mediocre Disney songs in it and if I want to watch that type of stuff (the projections on the castle), I can play one of those movies at home.

Oh I agree. I love World Showcase Lagoon. I’m going off the perspective of the “typical guest”. And yeah, HEA is filled with mediocrity in its soundtrack. That’s why I have no interest in watching it ever again.

 

[Yert3]

There also wasn't a new show already in the works when RoE debuted either, (someone correct me if I'm wrong) which gave them more of a reason to keep it running, especially since it turned out to be a success. Not defending HarmonioUS at all, but it's been about a year since they've started working on it and they're pretty invested in it at this point. With that being said, and with the direction that EPCOT and the company is headed in, I don't believe that they'll postpone or scrap HarmonioUS just so this abomination of a "love letter to EPCOT" can run longer than planned.

Well, my point isn’t “maybe EF will stick around like RoE did”, it’s “look at the quality and effort and money 1999 Disney was willing to put into a temporary show vs 2019 Disney” It shouldn’t matter if a new show is in the works, they should be giving it their all no matter what.

 

[Disney Analyst]

If one was not able to understand that IllumiNations was about the creation of/celebration of the earth, they were a complete idiotic moron.

I think the overall message maybe. But the story of each act... no way.

and then add in the boring globe segments. Thank you. Next.

 

[Imagineerwannabe]

the boring globe segments. Thank you. Next.

Sums it up for me

 

[Spash007]

I'm curious if Disney has scrapped or seriously reduced their song writing/musical talent area for the parks. I'm not sure how the soundtracks for RoE or even Wishes came to be, but it seems like now Disney is so focused on regurgitating old tunes that I wonder if there is any original music writing talent left.

 

[Yert3]

That “boring“ globe segment is more elegant, thought provoking, and beautiful than this entire new show.

 

[Disney Analyst]

That explains why you couldn't understand it, you've got repulsive taste in music.

Oh please. You know I’m a Gaga stan, Ariana is talented but her music is...

 

[brb1006]

Back at my Resort, and can give a bit more of a review from seeing it firsthand in the Park tonight.

Epcot was nice crowd wise....not too crazy.
Lots of Epcot fans in the Park.
My boy Tony Baxter was here today, too, checking out the new displays in the former Odyssey.

I viewed the 'Epcot Forever' Show from Japan, so I am interested in seeing it from 'front of house' as I know I missed some of the intended laser effects.

New pre-show music I liked.
Wasn't too enthused with the childlike pre-show announcements / introduction.
As mentioned in my prior post, the crowd around the lagoon cheered when the former 'Illuminations' torches lit up.
That was a nice surprise, as my understanding was that they were not to be used again.

Show started off promising.
The opening created anticipation for what was to come...or to least hoped to be coming.

Hearing Uncle Walt's voice echo through Epcot was in a way nice, but also slightly out of place in some respects since his vision of Epcot never came to be.
But for nostalgia purposes, which this Show was giving the fan service impression of, it kinda fit in there as a throwback.
After all, Walt's version may have never been built as he envisioned but it led to the EPCOT Center we all knew and loved.

Next came a selection of Pavilion theme songs with mixed pyro and a few references to other background music Epcot fans would know.
Then the lighted kites arrived and they received a good reaction from the audience.
A few more pavilion songs, and then multiple 'stacked' kites flew with both color changing lights and sparkling pyro.
Quite nice to see in person.

During the first kite segment, I saw one of them hit the lagoon unlit as if it had broken loose.
Hit the water right in front of the section I was standing in.
It was probably just the way the single kites are let go as the jet skit driver need to grab the tiered kite rig for the next segment.
Speaking of those tiered kits....one of them was unfortunately not lighting up among the others.

The Show continues along, and as mentioned previously the biggest crowd reaction was to references to 'Veggie Veggie, Fruit Fruit' and the Millennium Celebration melodies.
The 'cha cha cha!' In particular received a huge response.

Things seem to be building up to a climax....and we hear Uncle Walt again say some inspiring words related to 'his' EPCOT.
The stage is set for something inspiring to happen....to get us excited about the upcoming 'future for Epcot'....and we, the audience, are hanging there.....ready for it.

And then....
We are given 'a whole new world'.
Indeed.
'A Whole New World' from 'Aladdin'.

Yeah....okay.
Uh huh.

It is hard to describe in words the effect that segment had on the audience.
Prior to this, the crowd in my section was enjoying it.
You could hear their reactions clearly, and they were enjoying the nostalgia trip.
'A Whole New World' ?
Nearly silence where I was.
The once spirited reactions went quiet.
It was VERY noticeable where I was standing.

Then, a conglomerate of pyro was all shot off at once and it was over.

I had mixed feelings.
Enjoyed the first half, as it was a nostalgia show for us EPCOT Center fans.
Didn't care for the end as it left the subliminal message that the 'future of Epcot' is 'more Disney IP intergration' which just killed the mood of the Show.
I wasn't alone , as post-show lots a people were talking about it.

I do have to wonder what your typical day Guest or international visitor will react to a Show like this.
For those with no past connection to those Pavilion songs, this must be a confusing presentation for them.
Add into the mix of 'no characters' and no recognizable music ( the exception being the finale song ) I can't see this being popular.
I honestly think once word gets out, folks will skip Epcot's night spectacle offering and go over to another Park to see the better Shows.

Of course I realize 'Epcot Forever' is meant to be a temporary Show and I don't think anyone was expecting anything ground breaking or utterly amazing...but THAT my friends ended on a slight sour note.

I will add this -
The new merchandise line released today to coincide with tonight's opening performance looked great.
Rather misleading however, in hindsight.
But we already are all aware of where the priorities are.

Enjoyable evening, and I am glad to have seen it tonight in the Park with the crowd, but mixed feelings.

-

How did Baxter feel at the Odyssey Preview for Epcot?

 

[Disney Analyst]

That “boring“ globe segment is more elegant, thought provoking, and beautiful than this entire new show.

Hey now. I love the visual and the message. I actually enjoy ROE. Mostly for the music and pyro sequences. But let’s not let nostalgia blind us from the fact that the drawn out globe segment was used by the audience to talk amongst themselves and wonder what the heck was happening.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

I think the overall message maybe. But the story of each act... no way.

and then add in the boring globe segments. Thank you. Next.

While I don't disagree, I do agree that means people just aren't paying attention or are only looking for a quick hit of the familiar. It's sort of like comparing an award winning Broadway show to a cover band. I know many who would say the former is boring. But, there's objectively more artistry, complexity and execution required for one than the other. And, of course, originality.

 

[RoysCabin]

Only going by video it seems nice enough, but yeah...I know why they did it, but getting A Whole New World at the end just made me slump my shoulders. Combined with the preview of HarmoniUS in the Odyssey, I'm feeling incredibly bummed about all of this.

 

[JohnD]

For me the show fell short of expectations. Yes it may be a temporary show, but there are some glaring issues with the show that could have been avoided.

We have heard for decades from Imagineers that everything they do at Disney starts with a story. So what happened here? There is absolutely no story, other than trying to leverage nostalgia. The show is a collection of very short segments of past Epcot music, with none playing long enough to be effective. Just as the show starts to feel cohesive, it moves to something else. I don't know who the show is meant for. Real Epcot fans are unlikely to be impressed, and guests not familiar with old Epcot will be wondering what the heck is going on with the music. And for a show that is so baked into Epcot nostalgia, to suddenly switch to Aladdin just makes no sense.... until you understand that currently EVERYTHING must contain a movie IP.

The pyro design, which is normally a strength of all Disney's shows, felt lacking. The music didn't help. Unlike RoE, the music didn't have natural firework sync points, which resulted in a lot of the pyro design just being generic bangs. Very little of the precision sync and choreography that we got with Eric Tucker's RoE and Wishes designs. The only part that felt right was the Tapestry of Nations section - but it was sadly short.

The show felt small in scale and was lost in the lagoon. A lot of the pyro was angled in towards the center of the lagoon, which made it feel even smaller. Even the lighting and laser design felt very basic and generic - like it was just cycling through various modes. The torches and building outlines were almost being used randomly with no reason for their use other than they happened to be available.

Jetski driven kites were interesting and added at least something new, but I feel they would be more effective when combined with other show elements, and not being left as the main focus during those sections. Again during the kite sections, the lagoon looked very dark and empty.

The kids voices just sound very wrong for an Epcot show. The preshow announcements are horrible.

Disney often competes in the American Pyrotechnic Association events, where various companies do one-off shows for demonstrations. To me, this felt very much like one of those. Now those events are fine for one-offs, and are impressive in that context. But for a show that will play nightly for months, if not a year, I feel they could have done much better. Fingers crossed for HarmonioUS. Hopefully drones and new set pieces can save the lagoon show.

How did Disney get that crescent moon in the sky? It's beautiful! I agree with almost everything you said but to be fair, speaking of gaps in the show (like the gap of the kites without other elements), the spinning globe in ROE was a big gap.

 

[Disney Analyst]

While I don't disagree, I do agree that means people just aren't paying attention or are only looking for a quick hit of the familiar. It's sort of like comparing an award winning Broadway show to a cover band. I know many who would say the former is boring. But, there's objectively more artistry, complexity and execution required for one than the other. And, of course, originality.

If they can utilize IP in Harmonious to tell a story of world unity, while maintaining audience captivity, I will be pleased.

 

[Yert3]

Hey now. I love the visual and the message. I actually enjoy ROE. Mostly for the music and pyro sequences. But let’s not let nostalgia blind us from the fact that the drawn out globe segment was used by the audience to talk amongst themselves and wonder what the heck was happening.

I doubt it’s nostalgia. I have friends who saw it for the first time in 2013 say its the best fireworks display they’ve ever seen. the globe segment is 4 minutes. We as a society are watching screens 24/7, but now 4 minutes is too long to tell a smaller part in a larger story? Anyone telling asking themselves “what’s going on” should try actually looking at the images on the globe, they’re not random.

 

[tirian]

For me the show fell short of expectations. Yes it may be a temporary show, but there are some glaring issues with the show that could have been avoided.

We have heard for decades from Imagineers that everything they do at Disney starts with a story. So what happened here? There is absolutely no story, other than trying to leverage nostalgia. The show is a collection of very short segments of past Epcot music, with none playing long enough to be effective. Just as the show starts to feel cohesive, it moves to something else. I don't know who the show is meant for. Real Epcot fans are unlikely to be impressed, and guests not familiar with old Epcot will be wondering what the heck is going on with the music. And for a show that is so baked into Epcot nostalgia, to suddenly switch to Aladdin just makes no sense.... until you understand that currently EVERYTHING must contain a movie IP.

The pyro design, which is normally a strength of all Disney's shows, felt lacking. The music didn't help. Unlike RoE, the music didn't have natural firework sync points, which resulted in a lot of the pyro design just being generic bangs. Very little of the precision sync and choreography that we got with Eric Tucker's RoE and Wishes designs. The only part that felt right was the Tapestry of Nations section - but it was sadly short.

The show felt small in scale and was lost in the lagoon. A lot of the pyro was angled in towards the center of the lagoon, which made it feel even smaller. Even the lighting and laser design felt very basic and generic - like it was just cycling through various modes. The torches and building outlines were almost being used randomly with no reason for their use other than they happened to be available.

Jetski driven kites were interesting and added at least something new, but I feel they would be more effective when combined with other show elements, and not being left as the main focus during those sections. Again during the kite sections, the lagoon looked very dark and empty.

The kids voices just sound very wrong for an Epcot show. The preshow announcements are horrible.

Disney often competes in the American Pyrotechnic Association events, where various companies do one-off shows for demonstrations. To me, this felt very much like one of those. Now those events are fine for one-offs, and are impressive in that context. But for a show that will play nightly for months, if not a year, I feel they could have done much better. Fingers crossed for HarmonioUS. Hopefully drones and new set pieces can save the lagoon show.

Good analysis.

Sadly, Epcot Forever feels exactly like other modern Disney night shows. MK’s Happily Ever After, DL’s Mickey’s Mix *Whatever* (sometimes with pyro, usually without), and DCA’s WOC variations are clip shows of disjointed musical segments with little-to-no transitions. Most rely on high-tech projections at the expense of story.

I know a few people love HEA, but many people also feel it’s technically impressive while lacking the warmth and significance of Wishes.

HEA has been compared to Fantasmic, but that show masterfully combined film clips to compliment a significantly new story.

We can’t talk about modern nighttime entertainment without mentioning parades; and again, the most recent — Paint the Night — simply combines IP without unified creative direction.

Over at DAK, Rivers of Light comprises disjointed musical segments while a chorus screams about being one.

Based on the recent track record, HarmoniUS seems poised to be another letdown. That concerns me, because Disney’s night shows traditionally ended each day with a psychological warmth that felt like a bedtime story and a hug. As corny as that sounds, it created nostalgia and pleasant feelings in the guests who — pay attention, Chapek — developed brand loyalty and became repeat customers.

I hope the era of warm, meaningful nighttime stories hasn’t come to an end in favor of movie clips.

Now to be much less nostalgic, when did Disney’s music department forget how to naturally build fast, medium, and slow songs off one another? Proper DJ-ing is an art form, and Disney fireworks shows used to excel at blending the music selections for a natural flow. IMHO, that’s the biggest problem with HEA and Epcot Forever: the songs just bounce around each other with no sense of rhythm or musical composition.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

If they can utilize IP in Harmonious to tell a story of world unity, while maintaining audience captivity, I will be pleased.

I agree. There's a VERSION of Harmonious (and EF for that matter) that would work well. And the same for most of the new attractions, frankly. There's a cohesiveness and sorry that's lacking.

For Epcot, that message in unity and inspiration - specifically from the real world. It's taken different forms. But there a TON that could be done tied directly to that message that would work. Sadly, none of this seems to try for that cohesiveness. And that's lack (or likely restriction) of creativity pure and simple.

 

[KBLovedDisney]

Honestly, I hope this new shows stays around for awhile. Just saw it on YouTube and can not wait to see it in person. I will post here what I said in another thread talking about the new fireworks show:

I just watched this during my lunch.

I honestly think it is amazing. It brings back old Epcot, current, and comes with the hope of tomorrow's "Whole New World". I love the message and the feels were on par.

This I got to say is very well done.

Yep, that is all.