News Epcot Forever to debut as interim show before full Reflections of Earth replacement

[ChillSeaker]

The message of the show could not be more clear. If you loved the old EPCOT Center, we don’t care about you. We will throw snippets or re-recorded music you loved your way but it’s a whole new World Showcase baby. We will give you some hope then slap you clear across the face with Aladdin.

 

[danlb_2000]

So, what was left out of our "Dear John" Of a Love Letter to Epcot..
No nod to Body Wars or Cranium Command
Nothing to Food Rocks
Malestrom
Canada (Lifelong Journey)
The living seas instrumental
Mission space 03 version
Test Track 98 version

.... Illuminations. I think they should have used a segment of the Illuminations music in place of A Whole New World.

 

[Nottamus]

Told myself “don’t watch the stream, don’t watch the stream”

I watched the stream.

I liked what I saw and heard. Totally different, but entertaining. I’ll see it in person in 8 weeks.
We will always miss Reflections of earth...but moving forward, they did a good job.

I was more worried that they would reduce fireworks in the show...ya know, to cut costs.
actually, looked like more to me


The Soarin’ segment needed “nice work pal”
Haha.

 

[GhostHost1000]

It's clear, the overwhelming responses are:

Preshow, good
Torches and their use in the show, outstanding
Tapestry of Nations, outstanding
Kites, pretty good

Kids announcements, horrible
Kids singing, unnecessary and bad decision
Kids narrating, unnecessary and bad decision
Whole New World, horrible choice compared to relevant EPCOT songs.

Disjointed segments
Song references too short
Not enough references to classic EPCOT
Not enough effects
Nothing resembling classic Disney storytelling

I think just based on this alone and assuming the majority of other fan based groups feel this way that EF basically had good intentions but fell way short of being labeled a complete success.

this is spot on

 

[Father Robinson]

I think what Disney fails to realize nowadays is that going to WDW for a ton of people has been not so much a special, every now and then occurence, but more so a way of life. And with the regular, practically daily visits and reports from the parks via photos, video, live stream.. WDW has become embedded into the fabric of the casual to the diehard fans, many of whom can not afford the daily or even annual pilgrimages. So therefore with all this media flowing out of the parks constantly keeping us all up to date as to the status and condition of them, we experience them and their offerings the same way a long distance relationship works, we stay in touch and love from afar. So when they come out with a new attraction or show meant to satisfy the once-in-a-lifetimers sense of satisfaction, the rest of us are left feeling sorely let down which is what I feel happened here. When we know and love a show like ROE inside and out like we do, we expect a LOT more from Disney when it's retired. You wouldn't want to trade in your Ferrari for a Volvo.

 

[DisneyJunkie]

If "Epcot Forever" is meant to merely be a filler for the true replacement, then I understand why it's a rather disappointing show. Still, you'd think Disney would have put a little more imagination into it. All that EF is, is a paint-by-numbers fireworks show with some callback voiceover elements to its attractions of the past and present. I'll admit that I enjoyed hearing them mention Magic Journeys, and the bits of Walt's declaration of what EPCOT was intended to be were some really nice touches. Other than that I was mostly underwhelmed by everything else.

 

[DDLand]

EPCOT Forever does not appeal to new guests, because of an excessive number of references to EPCOT Center that most people don’t know. It also is managing to tick off the guests who should have liked it.

This is classic Disney. Disney will proceed to wonder why this show will fail. They will then figure that it’s primarily because not enough characters were used!

But the show is what I said in my one sentence, an epitaph. EPCOT just like Tomorrowland was an unsustainable concept, with the ever evolving and at times rapidly evolving technologies.

This is just not right. Epcot wasn't a place to show off gadgets. Nah, Epcot was a place where we talked about how humanity was going to tackle a whole host of issues. Technology was one of the solutions, but also smarter thinking was too. Has any technology appeared in the last 40 years that actually has substantively improved our ability to live with the land or the seas? Have we made great strides in transportation or in space travel? Last time I checked we were still using “ jurassic soup” to power our economy. Communication has improved with the internet, but that’s like a simple correction of a show scene in SpaceShip Earth. If anything, we have made very little progress in any of the areas EPCOT Center focused on.

It is just as relevant as ever!

 

[Horizons1]

The show was awful. It’s advertised as a tribute to all things EPCOT, but that couldn’t be more of a lie.

The preshow music is terrible. Not to mention, if you’re going to do preshow music for a show called EPCOT Forever, why not have actual EPCOT music for it? That makes no sense. The park has a rich musical history. There are so many pieces of music that could have been used for a preshow loop.
Instead, our ears are treated to generic blech.

Why are there children doing the announcements and narration? It’s called EPCOT Forever. Figment should be the narrator, or Dreamfinder, Buzzy, SMRT1. Hell, I’d even settle for Ellen and Bill Nye. If they can’t even understand the importance of something as simple as the narration it makes one wonder how little they understand the importance actual show.

The show itself, except for the Millennium Celebration segment is terrible. Why was the source music not used? The covers of classic EPCOT songs are awful. Both the child and adult covers are horrid. Not to mention there is no context as what is what. People like us may know what songs are for what pavilions, but the general guest is going to walk away more confused than anything.

Aladdin...why? Why? Why?

The show. Aside from one or two segments, I did like the Magic Journeys lasers, is awful. It’s fitting however. This is the standard for new EPCOT. Disney has been claiming their transformation of EPCOT will make it more Disney while staying true to the park’s core values and ideas. It’s a lie, like this tribute show is. This show is to push merch on people like me who loved and miss EPCOT Center. The EPCOT that was about education and entertainment. Disney can create fancy new logos for the pavilions and make a new EPCOT logo. They can claim they get what EPCOT is about. But the truth is they have no ing clue what EPCOT is about. And they don’t care.

 

[TimeTrip]

After having the night to think about it, here are my thoughts.

My general feeling is that "Epcot Forever" is kind of like the "Philharmagic" of fireworks shows. It's really just a mish-mosh of different songs that you might know, except for the majority of people the songs are really obscure. I don't like Philharmagic as a concept because it's just "hey here's a bunch of popular songs we threw together with a really poor excuse for a story". Now, I happened to grow up with a lot of the early Epcot songs, so those bits worked for me. I do wish that the clips were longer and agree with most that they were all too short.

I thought the laser work was amazing. For me there was finally a moment that finally felt almost as grand as this moment-that-disappeared-when-the-new-lasers-arrived:
https://forums.wdwmagic.com/attachments/image-jpeg.404711/ (stolen from the illuminations thread)
There was some very heavy laser work on the left periphery (from showcase plaza) at the beginning, but that dropped off.

I thought the variety of music styles was a nice change of pace. Fun to be free felt manic in a good way and Soarin felt pleasant and relaxing. The kites were really really good, especially when the fireworks were activated on the multi-kites. It's the linking of the music of these sequences that is problematic and jarring. As for "veggie veggie fruit fruit", I was waiting for "cha cha cha" and it wasn't coming, then the silent pause happened. And just as I finally said "cha cha cha", the soundtrack said it. Lucky timing.

The spinning pyrotechnics were also neat, and there was a segment with "double-burst" (?) large shells that had more of a sequence count than I was expecting.

A lot of other folks have touched on things they liked, but one of my favorite parts that also got good crowd reaction that I don't think was mentioned yet was the perimeter shots going off in a circle sequence around the lagoon. That was AWESOME. However, I worry that on windy nights, the loss of the perimeters and possibly kites could really kill the show.

I was never a fan of the globe moving out for RoE as well as it showing progress over time once it got to the center of the lagoon. I understand its point in the story of the show, but I always felt it took way too long and was a snooze-fest for those minutes. Thankfully (IMO) there isn't anything quite like that in this show. There is a quiet section just before the kites IIRC, but it is short, and the kites provide great visuals, even if there isn't anything else happening.

What about a whole new world? It felt way off, and did remove me from the "zone" I was in. I wish it wasn't there, but I suspect we'll get used to it. The whole ending felt a little weird from a musical build-up perspective. It was hard at first to say "hey this is the end", but then it became clear. I thought the very-ending pyrotechnics made a better impact than RoE, but it didn't definitely have anything to compare to the pre-final sequence from RoE with all the white shells.

Do I want to see it again? Yes, just because I think the music has nostalgia, the variety of fireworks and "lasering" is quite good, the kites are great, and there is a good variety of action. Do I prefer it over RoE, no, but IMO its just a slight step down overall. What it lacks in story, it makes up for in visuals. For me.

 

[bennyw01]

Thank god this is an interim show.. sure feels like one!

 

[bennyw01]

Do you member EPCOT?

 

[wdwmagic]

For me the show fell short of expectations. Yes it may be a temporary show, but there are some glaring issues with the show that could have been avoided.

We have heard for decades from Imagineers that everything they do at Disney starts with a story. So what happened here? There is absolutely no story, other than trying to leverage nostalgia. The show is a collection of very short segments of past Epcot music, with none playing long enough to be effective. Just as the show starts to feel cohesive, it moves to something else. I don't know who the show is meant for. Real Epcot fans are unlikely to be impressed, and guests not familiar with old Epcot will be wondering what the heck is going on with the music. And for a show that is so baked into Epcot nostalgia, to suddenly switch to Aladdin just makes no sense.... until you understand that currently EVERYTHING must contain a movie IP.

The pyro design, which is normally a strength of all Disney's shows, felt lacking. The music didn't help. Unlike RoE, the music didn't have natural firework sync points, which resulted in a lot of the pyro design just being generic bangs. Very little of the precision sync and choreography that we got with Eric Tucker's RoE and Wishes designs. The only part that felt right was the Tapestry of Nations section - but it was sadly short.

The show felt small in scale and was lost in the lagoon. A lot of the pyro was angled in towards the center of the lagoon, which made it feel even smaller. Even the lighting and laser design felt very basic and generic - like it was just cycling through various modes. The torches and building outlines were almost being used randomly with no reason for their use other than they happened to be available.

Jetski driven kites were interesting and added at least something new, but I feel they would be more effective when combined with other show elements, and not being left as the main focus during those sections. Again during the kite sections, the lagoon looked very dark and empty.

The kids voices just sound very wrong for an Epcot show. The preshow announcements are horrible.

Disney often competes in the American Pyrotechnic Association events, where various companies do one-off shows for demonstrations. To me, this felt very much like one of those. Now those events are fine for one-offs, and are impressive in that context. But for a show that will play nightly for months, if not a year, I feel they could have done much better. Fingers crossed for HarmonioUS. Hopefully drones and new set pieces can save the lagoon show.

 

[Horizons '83]

For me the show fell short of expectations. Yes it may be a temporary show, but there are some glaring issues with the show that could have been avoided.

We have heard for decades from Imagineers that everything they do at Disney starts with a story. So what happened here? There is absolutely no story, other than trying to leverage nostalgia. The show is a collection of very short segments of past Epcot music, with none playing long enough to be effective. Just as the show starts to feel cohesive, it moves to something else. I don't know who the show is meant for. Real Epcot fans are unlikely to be impressed, and guests not familiar with old Epcot will be wondering what the heck is going on with the music.

The pyro design, which is normally a strength of all Disney's shows, felt lacking. The music didn't help. Unlike RoE, the music didn't have natural firework sync points, which resulted in a lot of the pyro design just being generic bangs. Very little of the precision sync and choreography that we got with Eric Tucker's RoE and Wishes designs. The only part that felt right was the Tapestry of Nations section - but it was sadly short.

The show felt small in scale and was lost in the lagoon. A lot of the pyro was angled in towards the center of the lagoon, which made it feel even smaller. Even the lighting and laser design felt very basic and generic - like it was just cycling through various modes. The torches and building outlines were almost being used randomly with no reason for their use other than they happened to be available.

Jetski driven kites were interesting and added at least something new, but I feel they would be more effective when combined with other show elements, and not being left as the main focus during those sections. Again during the kite sections, the lagoon looked very dark and empty.

The kids voices just sound very wrong for an Epcot show. The preshow announcements are horrible.

Disney often competes in the American Pyrotechnic Association events, where various companies do one-off shows for demonstrations. To me, this felt very much like one of those. Now those events are fine for one-offs, and are impressive in that context. But for a show that will play nightly for months, if not a year, I feel they could have done much better. Fingers crossed for HarmonioUS. Hopefully drones and new set pieces can save the lagoon show.

I wasn't there personally but after watching the show a few times via Youtube, you are spot on with your analysis. I am not exactly sure who Greenlit this but knowing its temporary is probably why this was pushed through.

 

[bennyw01]

Feels like the Whole New World is part of whats to come, out with all these retro EPCOT original scores and in with the songs from animated features.

 

[THEMEPARKPIONEER]

My thoughts:

Pre-show announcements are HORRIBLE. Pre-Schoolers. A joke
Pre-show music is good
The show intro is amazing
The Sage of Time script being read off by the kid then the torches kicking on is quite awesome

The finale falls flat on its face and ruins the rest of the show we all just saw. They could've put the IP anywhere else in the show and it wouldn't have nearly as big of a negative impact on peoples thoughts.

Also, no classic Epcot post show music??? Why no ROE in the show at all either..? Blows my mind

Hey at least they don’t say grab small children by the hand any more and changed it to “ kids take your parents hand”.

 

[Father Robinson]

Fingers crossed for HarmonioUS. Hopefully drones and new set pieces can save the lagoon show.

I agree with absolutely everything else you said, but as far as this goes, drones and new set pieces I think will have far less appeal if there isn't a solid story and a clear flow and pace to keep the show itself interesting. As George Lucas said in 1977,
special effects are just a tool, a means of telling a story. A special effect (or in this case set pieces) without a story is a pretty boring thing. And while I may not agree with a lot of things Lucas has said over the years, I feel this is absolutely accurate.

 

[FerretAfros]

wait....Epcot's 2nd ever firework show was called "A Whole New ....Fantasy"

Epcot's second nighttime show wasn't named "A Whole New Fantasy", it was "A New World Fantasy."

The name is a play on Dvorak's 9th Symphony, which is subtitled "From the New World," one of the best-known pieces of classical music. Colloquially known as "the New World Symphony," which makes for an easy pun for a show set in World Showcase, featuring classical music from various backgrounds.

In classical music, 'fantasy" doesn't refer to rainbows and unicorns, but rather it's a specific a term referring to structure of a piece that features variations on a theme. Think of how the famous "ba-da-da-dum" moves around the orchestra in Beethoven's 5th, from instrument to instrument and with different tempos, articulations, and chords, almost to the point of being unrecognizable yet still based on the same basic structure. Since many musical terms have Italian roots, you may be more familiar with the Italian name for the concept: Fantasia.

(Coincidentally, I don't believe New World Symphony was used during A New World Fantasy. However, variations on themes from New World Symphony were the basis for the music in Showboat, including Old Man River)

The show's name a content were clear reflections of a different era, when Disney didn't insult its guests intelligence, but rather aimed for a higher standard by assuming they knew something about the world they lived in and wanted to broaden their horizons. More than ever, it seems clear that is long gone and won't make a return any time soon.

 

[THEMEPARKPIONEER]

They should have just done Illuminations 88. The show could easily hold up its own without the fountians and laser images because that was only a 2 minute sequence anyway.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

For me the show fell short of expectations. Yes it may be a temporary show, but there are some glaring issues with the show that could have been avoided.

We have heard for decades from Imagineers that everything they do at Disney starts with a story. So what happened here? There is absolutely no story, other than trying to leverage nostalgia. The show is a collection of very short segments of past Epcot music, with none playing long enough to be effective. Just as the show starts to feel cohesive, it moves to something else. I don't know who the show is meant for. Real Epcot fans are unlikely to be impressed, and guests not familiar with old Epcot will be wondering what the heck is going on with the music. And for a show that is so baked into Epcot nostalgia, to suddenly switch to Aladdin just makes no sense.... until you understand that currently EVERYTHING must contain a movie IP.

This is my biggest concern with all of the new Epcot happenings. There is absolutely no story - or at least none that makes sense across the park. EF has no overarching story at all. And, it seems the same way for much of the park going forward. World Showcase is about the countries of the world. And exploring them. Except where we think a ride about characters that live in that country is better. Or where we just want to make up a kingdom that loosely relates to a real place. But, they all work... right?

As I was saying throughout the day yesterday (and thanks to those with me who put up with it ), the biggest issue I have here is the storytelling. The Paris Rat Ride is lackluster and has nothing to do with France or Paris. Create Remy's Culinary Academy. A Science Fiction pavilion for Guardians. Etc. But, just tie it to the real world - even if the main attraction is going to be more fantasy in style.

I think about when they redid Tower into GotG. It was rejected, and it didn't make sense location wise. Now it does as the anchor of a Marvel land. Where will that transitional point happen here? Every pavilion getting a character? The IP-ification of Soarin', LwtL, etc.? I don't see how you take the things they are doing now and create any type of cohesive strategy around them. Within their own land - let alone across the park. It would be one thing to CHANGE the story of Epcot into something else that was at least cohesive. But, it feels like we are going to repeat the mistakes of both Tomorrowland and Studios. In a Park with far greater potential and aspirations.

 

[lentesta]

It's clear, the overwhelming responses are:

Preshow, good
Torches and their use in the show, outstanding
Tapestry of Nations, outstanding
Kites, pretty good

Kids announcements, horrible
Kids singing, unnecessary and bad decision
Kids narrating, unnecessary and bad decision
Whole New World, horrible choice compared to relevant EPCOT songs.

Disjointed segments
Song references too short
Not enough references to classic EPCOT
Not enough effects
Nothing resembling classic Disney storytelling

I think just based on this alone and assuming the majority of other fan based groups feel this way that EF basically had good intentions but fell way short of being labeled a complete success.

I saw the show from the Italy pavilion.

100% agree on the sounds of children singing. It's grating. The use of children for narration infantilizes the park's message. And Whole New World was an instant moment. I know why it's there - as a hint of what's to come - but still, it's jarring.

That said, I'd give the show's in-person experience a B+. The fireworks are good. The kites are visually interesting. The song selections are generally solid - and I agree about some of the segments being a tad short.

I don't think many new Epcot guests will understand the significance of some songs, like Veggie Veggie Fruit Fruit, but perhaps it's close enough to associate with Living with the Land that they'll figure it out.

It's going to be here for year. I'd like to see a few tweaks in the soundtrack (it wouldn't hurt to throw in 15 seconds of IllumiNations, just sayin'), and I don't actually expect a story from what is essentially an Epcot fan jukebox musical. It's not RoE or Wishes or HEA, but for 12 months it'll be fine. I'd definitely see it again over ROL.