EPCOT failed - Epcot is great!

[Expo_Seeker40]

Oh......:dazzle:

Damn it is a french dwelling she resides in, but why is the king so english!!! :hammer:

 

[tirian]

Cinderella does not appear at Epcot at all, because "her castle is at the Magic Kingdom."

Epcot is very strict about the proper nationalities for the characters.

 

[S.E.A.]

Oh well... the thread was nice before it was invaded by the few that can't get out of the past...

And I'm sorry RedSoxPirate, but your posts have been a bunch of psychobabble and drivel that perfectly sums up why EPCOT Center had to go. Do you *really* think guests want this ... "challenge, continually, the minds of all its patrons to imagine the way things could be" ... or just maybe they wanted to have fun at a theme park? They wanted to be entertained... WDI had to quickly jump in and try to fix EPCOT from day one.

By the way... you keep making these little remarks about Epcot "pander[ing] to those low minds" or being dumbed down. You are in essence insulting anyone that happens to like the park now. I don't like it and expect an apology.

Horizons was let go because it just didn't pull enough crowds to warrant a good update and then was closed a year after being down for a rehab. The premise just wasn't viable any longer and needed replacement. I'm sorry you miss an attraction, but it's time to move out of the past.

i like you

 

[Sergeant Tibbs]

Narrowminded con-artists? This post is freakin halarious

 

[VacationPlanner]

What has happened to EPCOT though, its completely gotten away from its purpose and that was to give the audience an optimistic view of what may lie ahead in the future. With the closing of great attractions like Horizons, World of Motion, and the old, original Journey Into The Imagination (the one with the classic Figment and Dreamfinder) EPCOT has slowly faded away from its original message. Spaceship Earth is the only remaining classic in the entire park that still relays that message.

Another thing about Journey Into Imagination is that now its a sorry excuse to resurrect Figment and then with the whole "Kimmunicator" attraction it ruins all potential for it to be a classic once more. Having been a cast member at EPCOT the worst thing that I saw was that all the props and attractions from the old ImageWorks were in the second story of the building and completely gutted.

This theme park was Walt's baby, he poured his heart and soul into its design and concept and I am sure that he would be a little disappointed to see what it has become today.

One of the greatest endearing aspects of EPCOT though is that the World Showcase offers a sense of community (which the letter C now stands for in EPCOT)
and it displays that with Illuminations: Reflections of Earth...everyone "gathers around the fire" and enjoys each others company and watches the best fireworks spectacular that WDW has to offer.

I really want EPCOT to get back to its original message and bring back the hopes and dreams that Walt had for it. (The awesome display on the TTA in MK)

So sorry for the long post but I had to get this off my chest

 

[head mouse]

As I said in a privious post in this thread.

Walt's dream for EPCOT did not die or fail. It is still in exisitance and operation every day. It's just got a different name. It's now called Walt Disney World Resort.

It has it's own telephone company, fire Dept, Police Dept, Post Offices, Water managemant, Trash and waste managment, Transportation systems Everything and more that a major city would have/need to run and function.

So I say that Walt's dream of his City of Tomorow is alive and well.

 

[wannab@dis]

This theme park was Walt's baby, he poured his heart and soul into its design and concept and I am sure that he would be a little disappointed to see what it has become today.

Welcome to WDWMagic :wave:

You think Walt would be disappointed today, but not with what how Epcot was when it first opened? From the very first day it opened, Epcot was nothing similar to E.P.C.O.T. that Walt "designed."

As for the rest of your post, I believe that has been covered over and over in this thread and others.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

It's a difficult debate. I don't think Walt would have been disappointed with EPCOT Center as a theme park, but I entirely agree he would have been disapointed with it as his vision of EPCOT. They really aren't that similar aside from the concept of a showcase.

As for the rest, you have stumbled into one of the largest debates on this forum. It comes up often, and there are definite sides. While many of us agree, I think one of the largest possibilities would be if Disney could find a way that both appeases the old feelings and concepts of EPCOT Center (to both old and new fans) and appeals to a wider audience (something that many feel EPCOT Center failed at). I think we have seen some glimmers of hope with attractions. I think Soarin' as a concept, I:ROE, and even M:S and TT harken to those experiences and appeal to a different audience. I would like to see a bit more balance with the traditional Disney experiences, too, but I really think there is great potential here. Even upgrading the Seas (the character issue aside) is a good move to making Epcot a fun, interactive park.

We will see, I guess. Welcome aboard! :wave:

 

[Figments Friend]

EPCOT is not the Magic Kingdom. EPCOT (or Epcot or whatever) is a tribute to science, technology and any other pseudonym for the progress that humankind has and continues to make. A quote from the dedication plaque:




The point of Epcot has never been to bring the Disney characters to life -- the Magic Kingdom was created solely for that purpose. Just as MGM was dedicated to bringing the movies to life and DAK to bringing to life the animal world that previously existed only in storybooks, Epcot has its purpose in bringing to life the future world and the world outside our own narrow borders. Both Walt's dream and the reality (created by those "penny-pinchers" who "ruined Walt's vision" or whatever) confirm this as Epcot's mission and it is undeniable.


That said, the recent trend in the park is truly disheartening to those who love Epcot for it's own special place in Disneyana. The loss of an attraction like Horizons, which in this author's eye should have been the focal point of Epcot as it best represented the vision for the park, was devastating -- especially in light of the decision to replace it with a thrill ride aimed at the MTV generation. Do not get me wrong: the exploration of space certainly has a place in the park, as this is clearly a way of the future. But destroying that single attraction that best summed up the vision of the future world to create it ... what brass! Certainly, from time to time, attractions need a little sprucing and revitalizing, to keep them fresh ... but wholesale demolition? Destruction of the idea underlying them?

The destruction of Horizons marked the end to the mission of Epcot. No longer is it to cater to higher minds and purposes; no longer will it challenge us to think above and beyond that which presents to us in our own life; because that was not profitable (education never is). But, now Epcot will pander to the lowest in us. It has sacrificed everything in the name of entertainment and thrills.

That, I think, is what underlies any hostility some might have to the new TLS. Adding Nemo and the other Pixar-kinder more fully tears asunder Epcot from it's purpose. It's just one more step along the devolution of the greatest mindblowing experience. Nemo, Mickey et al. belong at MK; while I am slightly more inclined to allow the mouse (by whom this was all started, of course), other character experiences detract from what Epcot is and only serve to dilute the message.

Let us not forget what we are talking about: Epcot is more than a theme park; it is an idea. Epcot is more than entertainment; it is education. Why should Disney pander to those lower minds? Walt would NEVER have stood for it.

Well Said!!

:sohappy:

 

[FigmentJedi]

Saying the original Imagination was the second most popular ride in the park before it was changed isn't really saying much.

Yeah but when a ride that actually has fairly good sized lines(that go by quickly from the fast loading of our friend, the Omnimover) that occasionally extend out the door and then, after it is updated, can only get a completely filled train ONLY when the planets are aligned precisely, Hell has frozen over AND Pigs have been given jet packs to fly. I know I'm exaggerating for comic effect here, as such an unusual phenomenon has been witnessed around holiday times, but still, it wasn't just the Disney nerds who cried afoul about that replacement and stayed away, but pretty much everybody stayed away in combination of the ride being so craptacular AND Disney being too ashamed of it to decently promote it, even with the current version that brought Figment back into the picture.

 

[Mr.EPCOT]

As I said in a privious post in this thread.

Walt's dream for EPCOT did not die or fail. It is still in exisitance and operation every day. It's just got a different name. It's now called Walt Disney World Resort.

It has it's own telephone company, fire Dept, Police Dept, Post Offices, Water managemant, Trash and waste managment, Transportation systems Everything and more that a major city would have/need to run and function.

So I say that Walt's dream of his City of Tomorow is alive and well.

I'm sorry, but wrong wrong wrong! The entire point of Walt's Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow were the revolutionary ideas of its layout and connectivity, and ease of modern, ever-changing living. It wasn't whether it had trash service or not. There isn't even anyone living in Disney World. You can praise Celebration all you want, but I don't see much about it that makes it much more than a glorified suburb. E.P.C.O.T. wasn't about building just any city, it was about trying a new type of city that might be better for people to live in.

 

[wdwishes2005]

I'm sorry, but wrong wrong wrong! The entire point of Walt's Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow were the revolutionary ideas of its layout and connectivity, and ease of modern, ever-changing living. It wasn't whether it had trash service or not. There isn't even anyone living in Disney World. You can praise Celebration all you want, but I don't see much about it that makes it much more than a glorified suburb. E.P.C.O.T. wasn't about building just any city, it was about trying a new type of city that might be better for people to live in.

And we have a winner.

 

[Enderikari]

I'm sorry, but wrong wrong wrong! The entire point of Walt's Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow were the revolutionary ideas of its layout and connectivity, and ease of modern, ever-changing living. It wasn't whether it had trash service or not. There isn't even anyone living in Disney World. You can praise Celebration all you want, but I don't see much about it that makes it much more than a glorified suburb. E.P.C.O.T. wasn't about building just any city, it was about trying a new type of city that might be better for people to live in.

I'm sorry, but wrong wrong wrong! To paraphrase the "point" of EPCOT, Donn Tatum had a meeting with Walt to discuss the ideas for EPCOT... and in the process of hearing Walt wax on about all the "innovative" things it would incorporate (many of which, despite what you want to think, are used in WDW's design) looked Walt straight in the eye, and said, "Walt, it sounds like you want to be king of your own city..."
Walt response, "Well.... can I?"

 

[head mouse]

I'm sorry, but wrong wrong wrong! The entire point of Walt's Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow were the revolutionary ideas of its layout and connectivity, and ease of modern, ever-changing living. It wasn't whether it had trash service or not. There isn't even anyone living in Disney World. You can praise Celebration all you want, but I don't see much about it that makes it much more than a glorified suburb. E.P.C.O.T. wasn't about building just any city, it was about trying a new type of city that might be better for people to live in.

**BUZZ** I'm sorry thats the wrong answer. Tell them what they didn't win Bob.

I'm sorry, but wrong wrong wrong! The entire point of Walt's Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow were the revolutionary ideas of its layout and connectivity, and ease of modern, ever-changing living. It wasn't whether it had trash service or not. There isn't even anyone living in Disney World. You can praise Celebration all you want, but I don't see much about it that makes it much more than a glorified suburb. E.P.C.O.T. wasn't about building just any city, it was about trying a new type of city that might be better for people to live in.

I'm sorry, but wrong wrong wrong! To paraphrase the "point" of EPCOT, Donn Tatum had a meeting with Walt to discuss the ideas for EPCOT... and in the process of hearing Walt wax on about all the "innovative" things it would incorporate (many of which, despite what you want to think, are used in WDW's design) looked Walt straight in the eye, and said, "Walt, it sounds like you want to be king of your own city..."
Walt response, "Well.... can I?"

Thank You.

EVERYTHING that Walt invisioned in his EPCOT project IS being used at WDW Resort somewhere.

If Walt were alive today, he would be very pleased with the way his dreams and ideas were used.

As it has been said many time sin this thread (and many others), EPCOT center is nothing more then a showcase.

 

[PixieTinkerbell]

Context?

I'm sorry, but wrong wrong wrong! To paraphrase the "point" of EPCOT, Donn Tatum had a meeting with Walt to discuss the ideas for EPCOT... and in the process of hearing Walt wax on about all the "innovative" things it would incorporate (many of which, despite what you want to think, are used in WDW's design) looked Walt straight in the eye, and said, "Walt, it sounds like you want to be king of your own city..."
Walt response, "Well.... can I?"

Don't you think that you're taking that quote a little out of context? Seems to me that it was a friendly joke between two friends.

 

[head mouse]

Don't you think that you're taking that quote a little out of context? Seems to me that it was a friendly joke between two friends.

I think the point that Enderikari was tring to make was

the "innovative" things it would incorporate [EPCOT] (many of which, despite what you want to think, are used in WDW's design)

But on a note (since you brought it up) Yes Walt wanted to be the "king" of his own City. If you watch "Walt - The man behind the Myth" and many other videos about Walt's life you would know that he always dreams of having "his own city".

 

[Mr.EPCOT]

EVERYTHING that Walt invisioned in his EPCOT project IS being used at WDW Resort somewhere.

If Walt were alive today, he would be very pleased with the way his dreams and ideas were used.

You show me a hub-shaped city with a central tall cosmopolitan hotel, climate-controlled downtown area, transportation lobby with monorails running to an airport of the future and WEDWay PeopleMovers taking residents between their houses and their jobs, and I might be inclined to agree with you.

 

[head mouse]

You show me a hub-shaped city with a central tall cosmopolitan hotel,

Take your pick:
1) Magic Kingdom is hub shaped with a central icon (now being used for guest to stay over night)

or

2) Combine EVERY hotel on WDW property and it would equal one "tall cosmopolitan hotel"

transportation lobby with monorails

Um... TCC, Contempory Hotel, Grand Floridian, Polly

running to an airport of the future and WEDWay PeopleMovers

A larger version of the Wed way people mover IS in use at the Orlando International Air Port.

taking residents between their houses and their jobs,

Many people living in Celebration or not, that take WDW transportaion to and from their job.

and I might be inclined to agree with you.

Thank you for agreeing with me.

 

[Enderikari]

You show me a hub-shaped city with a central tall cosmopolitan hotel, climate-controlled downtown area, transportation lobby with monorails running to an airport of the future and WEDWay PeopleMovers taking residents between their houses and their jobs, and I might be inclined to agree with you.

First, you show me the estimated 12 billion dollars(in 60's funds, not adjusted for inflation, which would be considerable) along with the permits and governmental allowances which Walt had already been denied by the State of Florida, then I might be inclined to agree with you... I know Walt said, "Its kind of fun to do the impossible" but the EPCOT project wasn't just impossible, it wasn't even feasible in the manner he wanted to create, let alone run the thing. However, the things you mentioned above have been incorporated elsewhere, in usually a scaled down form, elsewhere in the resort...

Believe me, the blind eye you turn towards the progress that was made doesn't mean that its not there. Just because you choose to ignore the advances made for the resort, and stay blind to reality doesn't mean that reality isn't happening all around you. Walt ideas would have never worked, and many of the folks around him were telling him so. Jim Fowler, the man Walt called "Can Do" Fowler because he responded to every request by Walt with an automatic "Can Do!" even balked, was almost insulted about what Walt had dreamed up... His own little tinker toy land... Thank god for Epcot as it exists today.

 

[Main Street USA]

The only thing I have to ask the original poster is why in the world he thinks TV shows don't have theme songs. Nearly every single sitcom on TV has one, and so do all of the shows he mentioned.

While the rest of your post makes sense, that part is completely unfounded and made-up.