PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
At what point do we stop expecting better? Seems like it's been quite a while now since we've seen 'better'.
Never change your standards.
Always expect and demand the best.
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EPCOT Entertainment cuts
- Thread starter wannabeBelle
- Start date
Never change your standards.
Always expect and demand the best.
sshindel
The Epcot Manifesto
Hahahaha!
@MichWolv you are a former!
Hahahaha!
How DARE you like other acts as much as Off Kilter? If there are two things universal to Disney fans, it's Off Kilter is the best entertainment act in the history of theme parks, and hatred of the broken Yeti. Didn't you know that?
sshindel
The Epcot Manifesto
It might be a noble effort, but it will be fruitless. Instead of sending letters, you are better off sending six-figure checks to Disney instead because money and the bottom line are the only thing that is going to move them to action.
DisUniversal
Well-Known Member
I do....that's why I spend more time about 10 miles up I-4 now.
DisUniversal
Well-Known Member
Doesn't seem like you're following the conversation there...it wasn't a matter of liking other acts as much as Off Kilter, it was stating that thinks like the Taiko drummers, the Chinese acrobats and the train garden are as iconic as Off Kilter. I don't even know who the Taiko drummers are, haven't stopped to look at the train garden in years and the last time I saw the Chinese acrobats, they were dropping stuff all over the place. Sure, any of these acts can be someones personal favorite, but to say they are as iconic as Off Kilter or World Showcase Players is a bit silly.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
I wont take the bait and let this turn into a Universal thing. I'll PM you my thoughts there.
Second.... where are my foaming Epcot fanboiz who are always bemoaning how Epcot is ruined? Now that they make significant and substantive cuts to entertainment, they're nowhere to be found.
I dont believe they have played outside of Disney in quite some time. The fact that all of them are married and have families that live in the area may have contributed to that. Having a steady gig like that is indeed a blessing for the guys, but I think I was equally blessed by the association. Marie
Fractal514
Well-Known Member
You keep saying that people aren't following the conversation or aren't getting it... I disagree. People are stating that, for them, there are other acts that are just as iconic. That word is a difficult one to evaluate, iconic, how does one define it? You seem to think that drawing in large crowds is iconic, and yet I don't know that this is entirely true. The Hall Of Presidents might not be as big a draw as Toy Story Midway Mania, but I'd argue that it is more "iconic." You claim that your personal ignorance of the Taiko Drummers deems them non-iconic, and yet others in this thread have noted that they were unaware of Off-Kilter, does your knowledge of something carry more weight than someone else? You state that you haven't stopped to look at the train garden in years, as if that meant that the trains weren't iconic, and yet I have no doubt that thousands of people each year walk right past Off Kilter without so much as a glance, wouldn't that same logic make them less iconic? Your personal experience with the Chinese acrobats does not match up with mine, so again, it's your personal feelings against another person's feelings. You're last statement of any act being someone's personal favorite is definitely true, but it is that very truth that I think is shading your judgment and arguments here. Off Kilter is clearly a personal favorite of yours, and so you are assuming others either must feel the same as you or be wrong. It is all just personal preference in reality. If we want to come to a mutually agreed upon definition of what "iconic" means and then filter things through them, I think we can do that, but I think a good place to start would be to start with as big a scale as possible and determine if folks in that scale would recognize/identify the act/attraction. For example, you could probably ask anyone in America if they knew what Pirates of the Caribbean of the Haunted Mansion were and where they came from and a vast majority would answer correctly, THAT is iconic status. Using that as a base guideline, at what level and in what percentage would Off Kilter start to fall into that category? Has someone who has never been before ever heard of them? Would the one-time trip taker know about them? Do folks who go once every few years recognize them? Do you see what I mean? It's an interesting thing to think about.
71jason
Well-Known Member
Well, Off Kilter encapsulates the best of what EPCOT can be, while the broken Yeti is the perfect symbol of most of what's wrong with the current Disney regime. So it's easy to see why they engender such a huge response, while, say, the mariachi band in Mexico or the flower garden behind France don''t get a whole lot of mentions in the online community.
This is the part where I steal from @PhotoDave219, except I live in Florida, Topsiders and flip-flops have no need to be shined.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
How do I sum up the vitrol and the anger? Its been years building. Its not one specific things, but a "portfolio of behavior" when it comes to the constant cuts within DIsney Entertainment.
For me, it goes back to the loss of the adult comedy at Pleasure Island. After that, I've seen nothing but cuts and reductions in entertainment over the years. We go from a "something for everyone" mentality to "lowest common denominator" with entertainment. We've gone from high end shows to thats good enough. Remember Diamond Horseshoe Review? Neither do I, but I'd love to have seen it. Instead, it sits empty. We have PR people tauting that Disney has the most blah blah blah when it comes to entertainment but they really dont. Long gone are the castle sets, PM town square, DCOH and were replaced with carbon copies of the same people everywhere. (Which gets to why there were 4 hour lines at the villians party but I digress). People bemoan losing the Ziti Sisters but long gone was Masquerade, the Kristos and the list goes on and on and on. The parades are gone; DSMC, MJJP, Block Party Bash, Countdown to Dun,
Now I enjoy DJ Elliott at the studios. But I want more than a Dance Party. I'm sure that the new acts at Epcot will give their all and give a good show, but they just wont be what we had. We had a place where you could see a belly dancer, hear the Beatles, see improv comedy and enjoy a pint while listening to bagpipes all at the same place. Can't do that anymore and its part of what made World Showcase unique.
Its a lack of embracing culture; instead its ordering off the shelf third party acts and shoehorning them into the World Showcase. It reinforces everything we've seen with the new soulless corporate Disney. Executives getting bonuses for finding places to save money over and over again. There's no loyalty to cast members who have been with the company for 15-20 years, there's no reward for giving your all for putting up with the business-minded savages that come to these park. Management as a whole just doesn't look at the cast as people, they view them as dollar signs and that shows their ethics and their lack of humanity. Thats not what Disney was, its not how Disney should be. Its not what the man himself would have done. That mentality is simply not "part of the problem" instead it is the problem as a whole.
So where does the rage come from? Seeing the same thing ad nauseum for ten years, over and over again. Enough.
For me, it goes back to the loss of the adult comedy at Pleasure Island. After that, I've seen nothing but cuts and reductions in entertainment over the years. We go from a "something for everyone" mentality to "lowest common denominator" with entertainment. We've gone from high end shows to thats good enough. Remember Diamond Horseshoe Review? Neither do I, but I'd love to have seen it. Instead, it sits empty. We have PR people tauting that Disney has the most blah blah blah when it comes to entertainment but they really dont. Long gone are the castle sets, PM town square, DCOH and were replaced with carbon copies of the same people everywhere. (Which gets to why there were 4 hour lines at the villians party but I digress). People bemoan losing the Ziti Sisters but long gone was Masquerade, the Kristos and the list goes on and on and on. The parades are gone; DSMC, MJJP, Block Party Bash, Countdown to Dun,
Now I enjoy DJ Elliott at the studios. But I want more than a Dance Party. I'm sure that the new acts at Epcot will give their all and give a good show, but they just wont be what we had. We had a place where you could see a belly dancer, hear the Beatles, see improv comedy and enjoy a pint while listening to bagpipes all at the same place. Can't do that anymore and its part of what made World Showcase unique.
Its a lack of embracing culture; instead its ordering off the shelf third party acts and shoehorning them into the World Showcase. It reinforces everything we've seen with the new soulless corporate Disney. Executives getting bonuses for finding places to save money over and over again. There's no loyalty to cast members who have been with the company for 15-20 years, there's no reward for giving your all for putting up with the business-minded savages that come to these park. Management as a whole just doesn't look at the cast as people, they view them as dollar signs and that shows their ethics and their lack of humanity. Thats not what Disney was, its not how Disney should be. Its not what the man himself would have done. That mentality is simply not "part of the problem" instead it is the problem as a whole.
So where does the rage come from? Seeing the same thing ad nauseum for ten years, over and over again. Enough.
sshindel
The Epcot Manifesto
My point is it's an opinion. I'll be honest. I've been going to Epcot since it opened and never once stopped for more than 1 minute at Off Kilter. I do stop for the drummers and the acrobats almost every time. I've never taken a poll, so I can't judge if they are iconic, because I never once considered it. They were a non entity to me.
Voices of Liberty is iconic. They have been there since the park opened. The rest are groups that had varying followings.
And what kind of a conversation was it when it was ended with a dismissal and derogatory statement because he didn't agree with your opinion?
No but I'd tend to automatically hate things when it seems the main reason for the change is the lower cost.
CDavid
Well-Known Member
So the low probability of success means people shouldn't even try to make their feelings and opinion known?
It is a foolish (arrogant) company indeed who completely disregards the opinions, tastes, and preferences of its customers. And yes, we all know how aptly that description fits The Walt Disney Company in 2014.
Well, if one really doesn't understand what the term iconic means and how to apply it objectively, one might try looking it up in the dictionary...
This is not a question of personal preferences nor necessarily even one of popularity. It does appear to have an awful lot to do with the almighty dollar, however, despite repeated and baseless attempts to suggest otherwise.
sshindel
The Epcot Manifesto
A Celtic Rock band is the best that Epcot can be?!? Lord give me strength. I don't want to go down this road on a pleasant Saturday. If an entertainment group that came around 15 years after the park was opened, and in the start of the actual decline of EPCOT Center*, is considered the best Epcot can be, I'll bow out of this thread now. It seems I won't be missed.
*note, I am not saying off-kilter caused the decline, but this timeframe is right when they were closing truly iconic attractions.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
Other thought… The stock prices over $90 a share. They can afford it. There is no (that should not have been a bad word) excuse for this.
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NMBC1993
Well-Known Member
Seriously! Isn't TWDC the #2 company with the most in reserves, right behind Apple? I seem to remember someone posting that a while back?
I think that sums it up perfectly. This isnt about who likes what bands or attractions, it is about a history of cuts and changes strictly to save money. One could say that other attractions were just as iconic ala Mr Toad etc. I wouldnt disagree in terms of that but Mr Toad as cool as the attraction was, is just a machine. These are five main and quite a few substitutes that are living breathing people who gave not only of their talent but of their warmth, charm and personality into making this something special. Walt said it best "You can design and create, and build the most wonderful place in the world. But it takes people to make the dream a reality." Those people are special and important and should be taken into account as such. Marie
BTW I will be at the Friday 9/26/2014 performances of Off Kilter for most if not all of the day, If anyone wants to come by and say hi, please feel free!!!!
Marie
C&D
Well-Known Member
With the news of "Offkilter" being 'axed', my wife and I have decided to make an extra trip (before they fold-up the tent). If there is a reversal, well great, if not, then we will be there one last time (and it is a heck of an excuse to head back down to the 'World'), can you say, bonus trip. We will surely miss them though.
As I said I will be there, if you can come by and say hi great!!! I included a pic in my earlier posting so I can be spotted!!! Marie