ArchiDanDisney
Active Member
Fuzzy stats keep jobs safe? Like at enron and k-mart right?
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Epcot attendance really that bad?
- Thread starter MJL
- Start date
justinsul1
New Member
The dismal attendance at EPCOT is no suprize to me when you examine the quality of a day at EPCOT. Let me tell you about the day of my disney vacation spent at EPCOT:
Went to TT which we have been waiting years to do. big disapointment. i mean going 65 mph in an open car, been there done that. stopping short, been there done that, going over bumps been there done that. the only terrifying part was when I didn't reailze a seatbelt check was ahead and my belt wasn't fastened as the ride began. i really thought i was going to die. i think they don't make it clear that the seat belt will be checked ahead because that is the only way they could call TT scary!
Went to HISTA. We got a suprize FP for it as did every1 else on the ride when we got a FP for TT. I think they do that so people know that there are things to do in Epcot. HISTA was good but no change since the last time in 5 years i was on it.
Went to JIYIWF. a total dud, not even worth talking about. it had a zero minute wait during president's week. that speaks for itself.
Went to SE. OK but outdated.
Garden Grille was a good character experience and the characters were hysterical. but, LWTL was awful. At least I took a nice nap.
Innoventions was a bad dream. Playing video games?! it felt like a bad dream. this is disney? felt more like a mall
Ellen's pre show was very entertaining and well done but the ride itself was abysmal. Another ride empty on president's week. i cannot imagine what a normal day is like at these attractions.
WoL was just terrible! The exhibits were that off an ordinary science museum and was unchanged from 5 yrs ago. Am I in Disney World here?!
Malestrom and Rio Del Tiempo were cheap, boring, attractions.
EPCOT is dying. PG must go foward in full spring or else DISNEY WILL BE NO MORE. Fairy Tales and pixie dust WERE my thing untill i went to Epcot b/c there are more fairy tales and pixie dust at Universal!
Went to TT which we have been waiting years to do. big disapointment. i mean going 65 mph in an open car, been there done that. stopping short, been there done that, going over bumps been there done that. the only terrifying part was when I didn't reailze a seatbelt check was ahead and my belt wasn't fastened as the ride began. i really thought i was going to die. i think they don't make it clear that the seat belt will be checked ahead because that is the only way they could call TT scary!
Went to HISTA. We got a suprize FP for it as did every1 else on the ride when we got a FP for TT. I think they do that so people know that there are things to do in Epcot. HISTA was good but no change since the last time in 5 years i was on it.
Went to JIYIWF. a total dud, not even worth talking about. it had a zero minute wait during president's week. that speaks for itself.
Went to SE. OK but outdated.
Garden Grille was a good character experience and the characters were hysterical. but, LWTL was awful. At least I took a nice nap.
Innoventions was a bad dream. Playing video games?! it felt like a bad dream. this is disney? felt more like a mall
Ellen's pre show was very entertaining and well done but the ride itself was abysmal. Another ride empty on president's week. i cannot imagine what a normal day is like at these attractions.
WoL was just terrible! The exhibits were that off an ordinary science museum and was unchanged from 5 yrs ago. Am I in Disney World here?!
Malestrom and Rio Del Tiempo were cheap, boring, attractions.
EPCOT is dying. PG must go foward in full spring or else DISNEY WILL BE NO MORE. Fairy Tales and pixie dust WERE my thing untill i went to Epcot b/c there are more fairy tales and pixie dust at Universal!
ArchiDanDisney
Active Member
Disney will be no more? I'm glad you are a theme park guru. Thanks for the notice.
ArchiDanDisney
Active Member
Because they aren't really numbers, he's just taking a guess.
CTXRover
Well-Known Member
Shhh, don't tell anyone
I am beginning to realize that and I just want him to make it clear that he is "guessing" or telling actual info. His first post on this whole thing sure made it sound like real facts, but he has yet to prove it.I just want "hard numbers" to compare with, not an attack on his credibility.
justinsul1
New Member
And you all urself a CM? CMs aren't supposed to be obnoxious. I was just being sarcastic. If all CMs are as mean and snotty like you, i guess that is another reason disney is going down the drain.
give it up already.
the guy obviously knows what he's talking about. all you people are just gettin' rowdy cuz he's saying something negative about disney.
u don't have to trust me, but his figures for epcot attendance (especially, the spike due to illuminations) are probably correct.
a lot of people do dak during the morning and early afternoon and then head to epcot at night. both parks are considered to be "half day" parks by a lot of guests.
CTXRover
Well-Known Member
I don't believe I am getting rowdy because he is saying negative things about Disney, I am simply inquiring on the validity of his argument and providing actual facts to refute some of his numbers, that's all. If everything added up right, I would be content
(Unfortunately, I don't have any "sources" or special access to info to see the attendance trend throughout the day, and I'm simply wondering about his "estimates")I have provided actual, published facts to show that Epcot is not suffering as bad as he and others implies. (It is declining, I recognize its a problem and needs to fixed, but to simply attack Epcot doesn't seem fair) I'm 100% positive there is a spike in the evening, as during the Jan. and Feb. (and May) months, Epcot is open longer than the other parks, so naturally guests will end their day there. Perhaps they chose to see the whole park over a week's time during the nights, I don't know.
Now whether only 4000 people start their day at Epcot is where I find his argument a little distorted. If that is accurate, how does it compare to other parks in the area and how does it compare to previous years. I am asking simply for what he calls "hard numbers" so I can make a true judgement. Perhaps he is 100% correct, all I ask is him to provide us with actual info and not give us numbers and then say he can't give us the "actual" numbers in the interest of hurting people's jobs.
I mean no offense or personal attack. Rather, I am truly interested to learn these numbers. I think its kind of fascinating. (ok, maybe a little obsessive :lol: ) I just want the "real" ones though.
>>>Thus, since 1998, Universal has seen a drop of 2.1 million people and Epcot saw a drop of 2.2 million people (now during 1998 to 2002 there have been obvious up and down fluctiations for Epcot<<<
Pull it back one more year. In 1997 Epcot brought in 11.8 million guests (the first time it had hit that level since the 80's). That year USF also saw 8.9 million guests (same as '98). If you're going to figure in the extra theme park effect, you might as well do it for WDW. On a side note, in 1997 the Magic Kingdom had 17 million guests and MGM had 10.6 million guests. 1997 was the 25th anniversary of WDW, therefore attendance at the MK spiked tremendously. in 1996 the Magic Kingdom had 13.8 million visitors (lower than last year), while Epcot and MGM had 11.2 and 10 million visitors, respectively.
Since 1997 Epcot has seen a drop of nearly 4 MILLION guests. Because of the 1997 spike that MK had a comparison of that year is probably not fair, so we'll choose 1998, where it had 15.6 million visitors. That is a drop of 1.5 million visitors, far less than Epcot and the park is more attended to boot. Finally, MGM has dropped nearly 2.5 million visitors since 1997.
>>>If that is accurate, how does it compare to other parks in the area and how does it compare to previous years.<<<
Working from memory here (and with full day numbers), the MK would be pulling about 19k in that scenario, MGM about 13k, and AK around 8 to 9k (Animal Kingdom's attendance is almost entirely driven from resort bookings, and fluctuates as such. AK's non-park hopper attendance is another problem WDW has been facing since resort bookings starting dropping like a rock. Similarly, Epcot also depends on resort guests, but not nearly as much as Animal Kingdom. But since Epcot has much higher crowd intensive facilities than AK, it hurts Epcot more. Finally, these are off-season numbers, so they are natually going to be significantly lower than a full year average).
>>>all you people are just gettin' rowdy cuz he's saying something negative about disney<<<
CTX Rover has actually been keeping it pretty civil IMO...
>>>I'm 100% positive there is a spike in the evening, as during the Jan. and Feb. (and May) months, Epcot is open longer than the other parks, so naturally guests will end their day there.<<<
If management really didn't think that Illuminations was crucial to Epcot's health, do you really think they would keep the park open that late? This is the same company that justifies closing the Magic Kingdom at 7 p.m. without any Spectro or Fantasy in the Sky, and it's attendance is nearly twice as high as the other parks on property.
Pull it back one more year. In 1997 Epcot brought in 11.8 million guests (the first time it had hit that level since the 80's). That year USF also saw 8.9 million guests (same as '98). If you're going to figure in the extra theme park effect, you might as well do it for WDW. On a side note, in 1997 the Magic Kingdom had 17 million guests and MGM had 10.6 million guests. 1997 was the 25th anniversary of WDW, therefore attendance at the MK spiked tremendously. in 1996 the Magic Kingdom had 13.8 million visitors (lower than last year), while Epcot and MGM had 11.2 and 10 million visitors, respectively.
Since 1997 Epcot has seen a drop of nearly 4 MILLION guests. Because of the 1997 spike that MK had a comparison of that year is probably not fair, so we'll choose 1998, where it had 15.6 million visitors. That is a drop of 1.5 million visitors, far less than Epcot and the park is more attended to boot. Finally, MGM has dropped nearly 2.5 million visitors since 1997.
>>>If that is accurate, how does it compare to other parks in the area and how does it compare to previous years.<<<
Working from memory here (and with full day numbers), the MK would be pulling about 19k in that scenario, MGM about 13k, and AK around 8 to 9k (Animal Kingdom's attendance is almost entirely driven from resort bookings, and fluctuates as such. AK's non-park hopper attendance is another problem WDW has been facing since resort bookings starting dropping like a rock. Similarly, Epcot also depends on resort guests, but not nearly as much as Animal Kingdom. But since Epcot has much higher crowd intensive facilities than AK, it hurts Epcot more. Finally, these are off-season numbers, so they are natually going to be significantly lower than a full year average).
>>>all you people are just gettin' rowdy cuz he's saying something negative about disney<<<
CTX Rover has actually been keeping it pretty civil IMO...
>>>I'm 100% positive there is a spike in the evening, as during the Jan. and Feb. (and May) months, Epcot is open longer than the other parks, so naturally guests will end their day there.<<<
If management really didn't think that Illuminations was crucial to Epcot's health, do you really think they would keep the park open that late? This is the same company that justifies closing the Magic Kingdom at 7 p.m. without any Spectro or Fantasy in the Sky, and it's attendance is nearly twice as high as the other parks on property.
Testtrack321
Well-Known Member
Who ever said Phenix dosn't know what he is saying is wrong. He's correct on many things. But numbers are a magical thing. Take his last post. He showed how Epcot dropped 4 mill, yet totaly breezed over the fact that Universal has shown a smiliar and somewhat worse decline since it's a smaller park.
CTXRover
Well-Known Member
Originally posted by pheneix
/////Pull it back one more year. In 1997 Epcot brought in 11.8 million guests (the first time it had hit that level since the 80's). That year USF also saw 8.9 million guests (same as '98). If you're going to figure in the extra theme park effect, you might as well do it for WDW. On a side note, in 1997 the Magic Kingdom had 17 million guests and MGM had 10.6 million guests. 1997 was the 25th anniversary of WDW, therefore attendance at the MK spiked tremendously. in 1996 the Magic Kingdom had 13.8 million visitors (lower than last year), while Epcot and MGM had 11.2 and 10 million visitors, respectively.
Since 1997 Epcot has seen a drop of nearly 4 MILLION guests. Because of the 1997 spike that MK had a comparison of that year is probably not fair, so we'll choose 1998, where it had 15.6 million visitors. That is a drop of 1.5 million visitors, far less than Epcot and the park is more attended to boot. Finally, MGM has dropped nearly 2.5 million visitors since 1997.///////
Thanks for the 1997 and 1996 numbers. I couldn't find anything before 1998 :lol: Those numbers make things look a little worse. I never realized Epcot, MGM and MK were so close before. Very interesting. I think its pretty fair to say AK really kind of hurt MGM and Epcot. It obviously made people chose between the 3 remaining parks after the MK and spread them out more equally among those 3 Since MGM was kind of already at that "equal-number" it doesn't make the decline look as bad for them(Not to mention Universal and Seaworld added more to do, giving and forcing people to make even more choices.)
I'm sure the 25th helped boost Epcot a little in 1997 also, so it may actually be fairer to compare everything to the 1996 numbers. Since then Epcot has seen a drop of about 2.9 million and MGM 2.0 million. Obviously a somewhat larger concern than the 1998 numbers indicate, but still not horrific. I see the concern is that the trend will continue and thus it needs addressing. However, what happened between 1997 and 1998? My guess again would be the effect opening of AK had. Maybe people are bypassing Epcot in favor of the other parks, or maybe its just that not everyone who comes can go to every park so they must chose, making the "remaining" parks on a more equal level (I hope that makes sense
///CTX Rover has actually been keeping it pretty civil IMO...///
Thanks. I enjoy a good debate.
/////If management really didn't think that Illuminations was crucial to Epcot's health, do you really think they would keep the park open that late? .////
I also think it is open later because of the large array of "fine dining" experiences in almost every WS pavilion. They want people to eat dinner in those restaurants. Of course, this is another reason why people may be coming from other parks to spend the night at Epcot. However, I still can't believe they are hurting so much during the day. I will have to accept that it may be happening or until I see it myself.
/////This is the same company that justifies closing the Magic Kingdom at 7 p.m. without any Spectro or Fantasy in the Sky, and it's attendance is nearly twice as high as the other parks on property////
Sorry to bring this up, not trying to start a Universal vs Disney thing. But it may be worth noting that the MK alone also attracts more than twice the attendance than the whole Universal Orlando resort attracts (total of both IOA and the Studios).
Hoping this is the end of a good debate (although always ready for more
Hey, great people are starting to be nice to each other
I don't think anyone was ever
just asking honest questions about the numbers
The math provided by both groups would put "average" Epcot attendance at around 22,000 a day plus or minus. We all agree that the number is much higher during Christmas/New Years, a better economy etc.
4,000 prior to noon could be accurate during the week the first two weeks of December and other so called slack periods. Of course if it is early entry day for Epcot even during slack periods that figure will probably double. I made the mistake of going to Studios on early entry day the first week of March and usually I would have been able to walk on ToT 2-3 times before there was a line. Well it was 9:15 and the stand by time was 65 minutes.
All tourism is down worldwide so it is reasonable it would be down at all theme parks. DL is in a little better shape as it brings in mainly "locals".
I love RoE and would pay just to see that.:sohappy: One other factor that greatly increases Epcot attendance in the evening and another reason they are always open until at least 9:00 is the restaurants. I don't have figures to back this up but many threads have stated that a large number of locals come to Epcot in the evening to eat
I promise to not count cars during my 5/17-24 trip
Everyone have a nice weekend:wave:
people are starting to be nice to each other I don't think anyone was ever
just asking honest questions about the numbers The math provided by both groups would put "average" Epcot attendance at around 22,000 a day plus or minus. We all agree that the number is much higher during Christmas/New Years, a better economy etc.
4,000 prior to noon could be accurate during the week the first two weeks of December and other so called slack periods. Of course if it is early entry day for Epcot even during slack periods that figure will probably double. I made the mistake of going to Studios on early entry day the first week of March and usually I would have been able to walk on ToT 2-3 times before there was a line. Well it was 9:15 and the stand by time was 65 minutes.
All tourism is down worldwide so it is reasonable it would be down at all theme parks. DL is in a little better shape as it brings in mainly "locals".
I love RoE and would pay just to see that.:sohappy: One other factor that greatly increases Epcot attendance in the evening and another reason they are always open until at least 9:00 is the restaurants. I don't have figures to back this up but many threads have stated that a large number of locals come to Epcot in the evening to eat
I promise to not count cars during my 5/17-24 trip
Everyone have a nice weekend:wave:
For the record
Amusement Business has estimated the 2002 attendance for amusement parks across the globe. The final report does not get released until Monday, but here is the top 10 attended parks for North America:
1. Magic Kingdom; 14 million, down 5%
2. Disneyland; 12.7 million, UP 3%
3. Epcot; 8.3 million, down 8%
4. MGM Studios, 8 million, down 4%
5. Animal Kingdom, 7.3 million, down 6%
6. Universal Studios Florida, 6.9 million, down 6%
7. Islands of Adventure, 6.1 million, UP 10%
8. Universal Studios Hollywood, 5.2 million, UP 10%
9. Sea World Orlando, 5 million, down 2%
10. California Adventure, 4.7 million, down 6%
In addition, Tokyo Disneyland recieved 13 million visitors this year, way down from nearly 18 million last year. Tokyo DisneySea recieved 12 million visitors this year.
Amusement Business has estimated the 2002 attendance for amusement parks across the globe. The final report does not get released until Monday, but here is the top 10 attended parks for North America:
1. Magic Kingdom; 14 million, down 5%
2. Disneyland; 12.7 million, UP 3%
3. Epcot; 8.3 million, down 8%
4. MGM Studios, 8 million, down 4%
5. Animal Kingdom, 7.3 million, down 6%
6. Universal Studios Florida, 6.9 million, down 6%
7. Islands of Adventure, 6.1 million, UP 10%
8. Universal Studios Hollywood, 5.2 million, UP 10%
9. Sea World Orlando, 5 million, down 2%
10. California Adventure, 4.7 million, down 6%
In addition, Tokyo Disneyland recieved 13 million visitors this year, way down from nearly 18 million last year. Tokyo DisneySea recieved 12 million visitors this year.
ArchiDanDisney
Active Member
I am not being snotty.His numbers are off in my opinion. Being a much bigger park, there could be more people and it could still seem empty. And I am not being rude and obnoxious because he is saying negative things about disney. Thats his opinion. I say negative things too. He made a personal remark towards another member. That's all.
pheneix,
It's probably sort of late to say this, but
I've seen the attendance reports for Epcot for the past year, and only a few times did the attendace dip below 9000...
You may want to recheck your facts... cause this time they're wrong
It's probably sort of late to say this, but
I've seen the attendance reports for Epcot for the past year, and only a few times did the attendace dip below 9000...
You may want to recheck your facts... cause this time they're wrong
ArchiDanDisney
Active Member
My hunch, thus proven correct. 
