Epcot.. aint what she used to be?

mousermerf

Account Suspended
Original Poster
I think i'm not the only one who kept hoping something would change...

For a long time, many people pontificated and espoused in long tirades on the changes going on at Epcot. They lamented and mourned the death of EPCOT Center. It was lost, the hope for humanity had fizzled, and nothing truly inspiring or optimistic would ever come from Epcot again.

I thought they were loons. Well, until recently.

I don't think i'm alone in saying I don't think anything at Epcot will really inspire me or "wow" me the way the park used to. I used to think the next great attraction was just beyond the horizon, but that hope has been dashed by the last several attractions the park has received.

Now, don't see this as some angry rant against those attraction. Many of them aren't bad, and some are quite good.

But "good" isn't good enough. I've given pretty much every new Epcot attraction a solid "meh" for wow-factor and ability to instill a sense of wonder. Where did wonder go? Did it die long ago with the pavilion bearing it's name?

Nemo is nice.. but it's not amazing and the pavilion apart from the ride is in shambles. SSE has some nice touches, but no big "wow" moment - in fact i'd say they damaged the biggest wow in how they reveal the 180-top. It's anticlimactic. which is why we're searching so hard for a climax in the end (which should be a the falling action.)

I thought Soarin was neat, but it has minimal repeatability (the inherent flaw of screen technology). I've been on it maybe 5-6 times and have no desire to ride it again. It's pretty, but very random, and doesn't hold any sort of emotional attachment. Similarly, Grand Fiesta doesn't connect, though I love the 3 Cabs, because it is just the same sets we've seen before with new projections. A passive sort of blah experience.

Canada? I've seen it twice, and have no desire to walk back up all those steps to see it again - and i know the shortcut that skips the stairs. It was ok.. a good "meh" again.

Remember when everything Epcot was new? No, i dont mean physically new or unaged. I mean the concepts were new - we had to be introduced to computers, they had to be given a sense of humanity to avoid a coldness that kept us away from them. That was new, the technology was new, the way we interacted with it was new. Now it's all old hat.

Did that stop making Epcot amazing? I think the park went toward a new angle to make it all seem fascinating through the millenium celebration. More focus on humanity, the cultural tapestry, the exotic and the excitement of the new century. That faded too.

Partying like it's 1999 isn't so exciting anymore..

Could it get better as the park finds a new creative direction to go? Possibly.. but someone in the company would have to take a keen interest in the park and work to focus it. I would say the utterly under developed resource of the World Showcase is the key. We've tried the future through technology time and again and it just goes back to the clinical, inhumane, and cold mess that the first Epcot fought so hard to avoid.

Delve into the World Showcase and show me something amazing from the mythology, history, and culture of some fantastical foreign land. The world has shrunk though, as SSE so aptly pointed out, so turning over a stone I've not encounter will be quite the task.

Supposed they're up to it? I have my doubts.. Maybe for just a few more days i'll hope, and maybe they'll announce something in the new year.. until then, it seems a bit bleak.
 

duck_daddy

New Member
Get him a tissue? Get the man an award, wonderfully written Merf, kudos! I think wha Merf is trying to say is, for the first time visitor, Epcot may be amazing, but for the repaet visitor it doesn't hold any wow or wonder anymore. It's just another park. For us die hard fans, this is discouraging!
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
Merf Is Right

When Epcot Center first opened it shamelessly showcased American Excellence and optimism. Somewhere along the way a decision was made that this was not the way to go. Perhaps it made foreign tourists uncomfortable or perhaps it is just no longer PC in the era of multi-national companies to have a park as patriotic, optimistic and pro-american as Epcot Center was. There is no doubt that optimism about the future is being deleted from Epcot. I recently read an article written by a couple Europeans that claimed Americans are TOO optimistic and that is dangerous. It appears Disney is doing their best to help quell American optimism. Shame really. Don't think it's what Walt had in mind for WDW. Hopefully some creative types can show me where I am wrong or expand on my theory. This forum has some truly insightful people on it. Merry Christmas All! (oops, hope I can still say that):animwink:
 

EpcotServo

Well-Known Member
Coming soon....

"Is EPCOT full of Trash?"
Mousermerf

"Spaceship Earth: Too shiny?"
Mousermerf

"EPCOT: Ain't it a women?"
Mousermerf

"A Certain ride's certain ending that shall remain nameless"
Mousermerf

"SSE: Worse ending, or WORST ENDING EVER?"
Mousermerf

"The suitcase of doom OR the doomed suitcase."
Mousermerf

"Fish or chips? A disscussion on life and death under that big Ol' ball."
Mousermerf

"Ok, I actully like the ending."
Mousermerf

"IN FACT, I LOVE IT!"
Mousermerf

"Fooled you!"
Mousermerf

"I saw WDI kissing Santa Claus, under Spaceship Earth."
Mousermerf

"Spaceship Earth: There was no magic bullet."
Mousermerf

"Descent: I die a little, every time."
Mousermerf

"To WDI: Thank you, now go die please."
Mousermerf

"SSE: Re-examining the Patterson footage."
Mousermerf

"Spaceship Earth will be back -in- Live and Let Die."
Mousermerf

:lol:

Just kiddin' a little. I actully didn't enjoy the ending as much today KNOWING what was supposed to be going on in the video.

Still loved the rest though.
 

Monty

Brilliant...and Canadian
In the Parks
No
Coming soon....

"Is EPCOT full of Trash?"
Mousermerf

"Spaceship Earth: Too shiny?"
Mousermerf

"EPCOT: Ain't it a women?"
Mousermerf

"A Certain ride's certain ending that shall remain nameless"
Mousermerf

"SSE: Worse ending, or WORST ENDING EVER?"
Mousermerf

"The suitcase of doom OR the doomed suitcase."
Mousermerf

"Fish or chips? A disscussion on life and death under that big Ol' ball."
Mousermerf

"Ok, I actully like the ending."
Mousermerf

"IN FACT, I LOVE IT!"
Mousermerf

"Fooled you!"
Mousermerf

"I saw WDI kissing Santa Claus, under Spaceship Earth."
Mousermerf

"Spaceship Earth: There was no magic bullet."
Mousermerf

"Descent: I die a little, every time."
Mousermerf

"To WDI: Thank you, now go die please."
Mousermerf

"SSE: Re-examining the Patterson footage."
Mousermerf

"Spaceship Earth will be back -in- Live and Let Die."
Mousermerf

:lol:

Just kiddin' a little. I actully didn't enjoy the ending as much today KNOWING what was supposed to be going on in the video.

Still loved the rest though.
:eek:

You mean we haven't seen all those thread titles yet?!?!?!?

Wow, Merf's slowing down... :rolleyes:

I'm not kidding a little or a lot.
 

LordHelmut

New Member
I'm with you merf

(lured out of lurker mode)

Yep. Pretty much for me also. Epcot used to be much more about what was around the corner, what was new, what was possible, (insert something about imagination here) *or* how we got to where we are today.

Heck, even the gift shops were out there in terms of product, which I looked forward to shopping during yearly (or more visits). (geek mode to standby) (and that was driving from NJ at the time)

Now, meh seems to describe quite a bit. For a lot of guests, it most likely is a much more approachable park now than when it opened. (Being that most folks will almost chew a leg off rather than learn/be amazed/have to think even 1% about what they are seeing)

There is a difference when you follow the path of focus-group oriented marketing/project development. You end up with product that hits (or tries to) hit the top of the distribution on a bell curve.

Disneyland has also had it's share of changes along this path. Anyone think an attraction based on the concept of Hall of Chemistry would work today ? Or a moon/mars landing simulator ? Not anymore, a lot of what was gee-wiz in the past has been obliterated in the present simply because what was once something unique, it is now done in every corner of the planet.

However, for those that are not keenly aware of history, think of this for just a moment. A great number of the things we think are 'new' are merely improvements on inventions that go back hundreds or *thousands* of years. (pay attention in SSE folks, seriously).

Could some of the wow be recaptured ? Certainly. Would the guests 'get it' .... Possibly, but the jaded factor is awful tough to overcome. And for guest from the USA, there are almost an infinite number of angles to the lands that could be brought into the story.

I believe that you are correct, trying to find vision/talent/budget and the fortitude to know that you are taking a risk, but pretty certain you are on the right track.... not too certain that skill set is encouraged much anymore.

Of course, I could be wrong, I often am, and am quite used to it by now.
 

SweetMagic

Oh Meyla Weyla
Coming soon....

"Is EPCOT full of Trash?"
Mousermerf

"Spaceship Earth: Too shiny?"
Mousermerf

"EPCOT: Ain't it a women?"
Mousermerf

"A Certain ride's certain ending that shall remain nameless"
Mousermerf

"SSE: Worse ending, or WORST ENDING EVER?"
Mousermerf

"The suitcase of doom OR the doomed suitcase."
Mousermerf

"Fish or chips? A disscussion on life and death under that big Ol' ball."
Mousermerf

"Ok, I actully like the ending."
Mousermerf

"IN FACT, I LOVE IT!"
Mousermerf

"Fooled you!"
Mousermerf

"I saw WDI kissing Santa Claus, under Spaceship Earth."
Mousermerf

"Spaceship Earth: There was no magic bullet."
Mousermerf

"Descent: I die a little, every time."
Mousermerf

"To WDI: Thank you, now go die please."
Mousermerf

"SSE: Re-examining the Patterson footage."
Mousermerf

"Spaceship Earth will be back -in- Live and Let Die."
Mousermerf

:lol:

in the category of "Witty Responses to Epcot Threads" the Oscar goes to...







:lookaroun







EpcotServo :king: (and the crowd goes wild :sohappy::sohappy:)
 

EpcotServo

Well-Known Member
EpcotServo :king: (and the crowd goes wild :sohappy::sohappy:)

Why, thank you.
:D

And no Merf, I saw the suitcase of death on one of the first rides awhile back, so today I watched some of the other one. I was a little more "meh" on them today, mostly because I was REALLY looking forward to seeing it with the pictures on.
:lol:
 

mousermerf

Account Suspended
Original Poster
(lured out of lurker mode)

Yep. Pretty much for me also. Epcot used to be much more about what was around the corner, what was new, what was possible, (insert something about imagination here) *or* how we got to where we are today.

Heck, even the gift shops were out there in terms of product, which I looked forward to shopping during yearly (or more visits). (geek mode to standby) (and that was driving from NJ at the time)

Now, meh seems to describe quite a bit. For a lot of guests, it most likely is a much more approachable park now than when it opened. (Being that most folks will almost chew a leg off rather than learn/be amazed/have to think even 1% about what they are seeing)

There is a difference when you follow the path of focus-group oriented marketing/project development. You end up with product that hits (or tries to) hit the top of the distribution on a bell curve.

Disneyland has also had it's share of changes along this path. Anyone think an attraction based on the concept of Hall of Chemistry would work today ? Or a moon/mars landing simulator ? Not anymore, a lot of what was gee-wiz in the past has been obliterated in the present simply because what was once something unique, it is now done in every corner of the planet.

However, for those that are not keenly aware of history, think of this for just a moment. A great number of the things we think are 'new' are merely improvements on inventions that go back hundreds or *thousands* of years. (pay attention in SSE folks, seriously).

Could some of the wow be recaptured ? Certainly. Would the guests 'get it' .... Possibly, but the jaded factor is awful tough to overcome. And for guest from the USA, there are almost an infinite number of angles to the lands that could be brought into the story.

I believe that you are correct, trying to find vision/talent/budget and the fortitude to know that you are taking a risk, but pretty certain you are on the right track.... not too certain that skill set is encouraged much anymore.

Of course, I could be wrong, I often am, and am quite used to it by now.

First off, i knew someone named Helmut - small world. Second.. I was just watching a documentary called "Brilliant but Canceled" about TV shows which people think are grand but were canceled by the networks for lack of ratings.

The history of television essentially boils down to the big 4 having a stronghold and each show needing that quarter of the marketshare to stay alive. Everything was mainstream entertainment. Cable threw that out of whack, and thus more edgey and intellectual shows came into being. Because the earnable marketshare was less, they look more risks and could afford to cater to only a segment of the market.

Fascinating look at the struggle to cater to the masses and balance creativity.

I think Epcot developed in an odd manner - starting as a niche, but being more generalized to fit the public. It doesn't really make sense, as AK and MGM should theorhetically allow more diversity of offerings, but i think it boils down to the methodology. Create what "works" and try to gain the highest percent of the marketshare.

It's not good enough for the bottom line for Epcot to only appeal to a specific segment.

What's interesting to see though is that many TV shows started as a niche show and evolved into a mainstream hit as the audience adapted to it and noted the quality. Seinfeld for example was rated very "weak" by panels and the characters unlikeable. By regular standards, it shouldn't have made it to the air.

So, quality will blossom, but mediocre always wins in the polls.
 

Figment571

Member
Mr. Merf I completly agree with you. The way Epcot was supposed to be has been all but obliterated.

A place of Education and a look at the wondrous things yet to come, now we have cartoon fishies and a fast car ride. But alas, the world has changed and people have become ignorant.
They no longer want something to inspire and teach them, they want to hear fart jokes and see some big explosion. Wonder is a rare thing these days, ignorance brought on by society's want to be PC and complacent have taken man's ability to think and explore.

Consider this, all who doubt me, what kind of vision of the future do we have? Coming up with a blank? We as a general whole have always had a vision of the future, not just one like Star Wars but one that is believable and tangible, not matter how ridiculous it looks now. Look at the SSE descent videos, it doesn't show us our vision of the future, it shows one of the past, it does not give us the ability to dream and wonder what it will be like in this wondrous time ahead of us. EPCOT Center inspired us to look to future with a view of the past, and the present and gave America a new vision of the future.
It covered everything from the living land, the depths of our wondrous sea, the mind and it's realm of fantastic imagination, the world in it's motion, the body which is our vehicle to the future, the way the world would be powered in the bold new age, the past and it's ways it taught us to communicate and see the world, and finally all came together to give us a marvelous new horizon to wonder and hope for.
They dared to dream, and now they are awake with no new dreams to show us, only the dreams of the past and cartoons.

Where is our future?
 

wdwfan22

Well-Known Member
Get him a tissue? Get the man an award, wonderfully written Merf, kudos! I think wha Merf is trying to say is, for the first time visitor, Epcot may be amazing, but for the repaet visitor it doesn't hold any wow or wonder anymore. It's just another park. For us die hard fans, this is discouraging!

That could be said for any of the parks. It's all how you look at it. It's his opinion that they don't hold any wow or wonder anymore.
 

SweetMagic

Oh Meyla Weyla
^^ I agree with this statement.

While you all may have made valid points in what you've written so far, it needs to be said that some of the repeat visitors do accept Epcot for what it is and are as content as we ever were to spend a day there.

I think this is possible mainly because we don't all feel the need to examine each and every part of it with x-ray vision and are happy to stick with an over all picture of a park that we prefer over the others. I personally find a peace and an ambiance in Epcot that I don't find in the other parks, and can spend a day wandering aimlessly and still wind up entertained and satisfied.

Your specific points are understood and accepted, however as a more simple person with different expectations of a successful day at a Disney theme park, I just wanted to add my opinion that we do not all need such a close examination of the park to determine whether or not it is a success for a repeat visitor. We simply go and enjoy. It is possible :animwink:
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
I have to say I was more impressed with the park this year than I was in 2001. It isn`t EPCOT Center, and never will be again, but there is light at the end of the tunnel I feel.

If only there were more lights in the (descent) tunnel :D
 

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