Entrance Permits

[Rob562]

this is a rough plan i made awhile back for another thread, showing how traffic flows could be seperated at the main gate regarding screen and unscreened guests

this plan would cordinate with adding a major security station at the ttc for ferry and monorail guests so the only guests that would need to be screened at the front gate would be the resort monorail, the buses and the small boats

View attachment 161753

Its a decent effort, but that has waaaayyyy too many traffic flows to be anything approaching efficient or easily understood for Guests without signs and single-file queue filling the plaza.

If they make the monorail "secure", all foot traffic approaching the monorail at resorts or TTC is screened. At the MK, both Express and Resort beams both dump into the central platform like they do now. Down the ramp from here, all traffic is routed to the left, behind the security checkpoints and thus within the "secure" area. Presumably the resort monorail would also have to be approached from inside the secure area, otherwise an unsecure person could board at the MK, ride all the way around, then exit into the secure area.

All bus, ferry and Resort boat launches would be funnelled as they are now, to the central security checkpoint. Lines would be shorter, because tve satellite checks would reduce the workload.

Leaving MK, you could hop on the Express monorail and transfer to the Epcot monorail. If they can figure out how to keep exiting traffic from the monorail at Epcot within a "secure" zone, then there's no need to go through a bag screen again.

The Epcot logistics will be the trickiest, I think. They have to figure out the monorail-exits-as-secure, otherwise you're forcing guests at their most expensive hotels to do bag check twice just to get to Epcot: once at their hotel monorail platform, then again at Epcot.

-Rob

 

[mm121]

Its a decent effort, but that has waaaayyyy too many traffic flows to be anything approaching efficient or easily understood for Guests without signs and single-file queue filling the plaza.

If they make the monorail "secure", all foot traffic approaching the monorail at resorts or TTC is screened. At the MK, both Express and Resort beams both dump into the central platform like they do now. Down the ramp from here, all traffic is routed to the left, behind the security checkpoints and thus within the "secure" area. Presumably the resort monorail would also have to be approached from inside the secure area, otherwise an unsecure person could board at the MK, ride all the way around, then exit into the secure area.

All bus, ferry and Resort boat launches would be funnelled as they are now, to the central security checkpoint. Lines would be shorter, because tve satellite checks would reduce the workload.

Leaving MK, you could hop on the Express monorail and transfer to the Epcot monorail. If they can figure out how to keep exiting traffic from the monorail at Epcot within a "secure" zone, then there's no need to go through a bag screen again.

The Epcot logistics will be the trickiest, I think. They have to figure out the monorail-exits-as-secure, otherwise you're forcing guests at their most expensive hotels to do bag check twice just to get to Epcot: once at their hotel monorail platform, then again at Epcot.

-Rob

like i said its a rough drawing. and there's different aspects that i'm sure could be simplified.

with the right re design and re configuring paths etc, it would be easy to make it obvious which paths are entrances and which paths are exits.

airports checkpoints have the potential to be confusing to, but with the right setup and signage for the most part you dont have people trying to go into the exits and different areas they arent suppose to.

i just dont see it being feasible to make the resort monorail line secure as it means everyone has to go thru security each time they get on including resort to resort movements and it means having 3 separate security stations open and operating all the time just for the monorail

 

[DisneyCane]

Permanent metal detectors for everyone is a wonderful idea, so I totally hope this is true. But, I do wonder why they left out MK -- the park that especially needs it most.

Why is it a wonderful idea? Unless they also add x-rays for bag scanning and carefully inspect all strollers they don't really add any real security. Somebody could get explosives through metal detectors pretty easily. For any sort of real security you'd need airport type body scanners instead of metal detectors.

Only with full airport style security can you have a realistic chance to keep weapons and explosives out of the parks. Sure, you'll get a news story once in a while about some guy that was caught trying to bring a pistol in. They'll make a big deal about it but in reality it will just be somebody with a concealed carry permit that forgot (or didn't know) that Disney prohibits firearms.

Somebody or a group plotting an attack would not be so stupid as to be able to be stopped by metal detectors. I hate to tell you that the most likely place for some type of attack is in the area where everybody is packed together waiting to go through the security checkpoint. It's the same at an airport. The TSA is in place to prevent attacts on airplanes, not to prevent attacks of any kind. A plane being attacked has huge ripple effects on the economy and the perception of national security. An attack at a security checkpoint is news for a week or two and gets written off as "you can't prevent every type of attack."

 

[GhostHost1000]

this has been my idea for awhile now... do not have masses of people at the entrance of MK trying to get screened bottlenecked up... try to thin this out and screen prior (where possible) - not sure how it would all work however

 

[Next Big Thing]

Why is it a wonderful idea? Unless they also add x-rays for bag scanning and carefully inspect all strollers they don't really add any real security. Somebody could get explosives through metal detectors pretty easily. For any sort of real security you'd need airport type body scanners instead of metal detectors.

Only with full airport style security can you have a realistic chance to keep weapons and explosives out of the parks. Sure, you'll get a news story once in a while about some guy that was caught trying to bring a pistol in. They'll make a big deal about it but in reality it will just be somebody with a concealed carry permit that forgot (or didn't know) that Disney prohibits firearms.

Somebody or a group plotting an attack would not be so stupid as to be able to be stopped by metal detectors. I hate to tell you that the most likely place for some type of attack is in the area where everybody is packed together waiting to go through the security checkpoint. It's the same at an airport. The TSA is in place to prevent attacts on airplanes, not to prevent attacks of any kind. A plane being attacked has huge ripple effects on the economy and the perception of national security. An attack at a security checkpoint is news for a week or two and gets written off as "you can't prevent every type of attack."

Universal actually has x-ray machines for bags now. Not only is it a great deterrent to anyone thinking anything they shouldn't, but it also speeds up the lines by a lot.

 

[Goofyernmost]

this has been my idea for awhile now... do not have masses of people at the entrance of MK trying to get screened bottlenecked up... try to thin this out and screen prior (where possible) - not sure how it would all work however

In a land mass the size of WDW it wouldn't work. There are way to many ways into the grounds. Why would anyone really expect that a person bent on destruction would just attempt to walk right through the entrance when it is so easy to get into places without bunching up. They still need to do the security because there are always random stupid people that are so bent on violence that they have no real fear of getting caught, but, they are few and far between and that is where the current systems become useful. Someone really bent on doing damage will find a way. It helps when you think your cause outweighs your own risk. Pretty much like what we expect and get out of our military.

Universal actually has x-ray machines for bags now. Not only is it a great deterrent to anyone thinking anything they shouldn't, but it also speeds up the lines by a lot.

That was in use everywhere in Europe, at least in all the major tourist attractions. You will notice that so far the only real damage has come from places that they least expect will be a problem. The scans, however, did move traffic along quickly. If anyone had a questionable item in a backpack they were placed aside and the rest of humanity was allowed to continue through, hardly any delay at all. There were, however, many of the scanners they hardly ever had just one or two operating so the crowds moved quickly. The biggest problem in this country is that if we, type A people, are delayed over 5 minutes we start to demand compensation for our time. Why? Because we aren't all that bright.

 

[MrHappy]

In a land mass the size of WDW it wouldn't work. There are way to many ways into the grounds. Why would anyone really expect that a person bent on destruction would just attempt to walk right through the entrance when it is so easy to get into places without bunching up. They still need to do the security because there are always random stupid people that are so bent on violence that they have no real fear of getting caught, but, they are few and far between and that is where the current systems become useful. Someone really bent on doing damage will find a way. It helps when you think your cause outweighs your own risk. Pretty much like what we expect and get out of our military.

Just to clarify what seems to be the concept. They aren't securing the entrance(s) to Disney World. But specific park entrances (several guest entrance flows in MK's case). The idea is to have security at various checkout points away from the main gate, just not 1 check point at the main gate that aggregates all the traffic as it currently does (from buses, monorails, parking, boats, et al). We'd have to assume that from point A (satellite checkpoint) to point B (entering the park) that it would be a secured one-way flow.

 

[Jon81uk]

Why is it a wonderful idea? Unless they also add x-rays for bag scanning and carefully inspect all strollers they don't really add any real security. Somebody could get explosives through metal detectors pretty easily. For any sort of real security you'd need airport type body scanners instead of metal detectors.

Only with full airport style security can you have a realistic chance to keep weapons and explosives out of the parks. Sure, you'll get a news story once in a while about some guy that was caught trying to bring a pistol in. They'll make a big deal about it but in reality it will just be somebody with a concealed carry permit that forgot (or didn't know) that Disney prohibits firearms.

Somebody or a group plotting an attack would not be so stupid as to be able to be stopped by metal detectors. I hate to tell you that the most likely place for some type of attack is in the area where everybody is packed together waiting to go through the security checkpoint. It's the same at an airport. The TSA is in place to prevent attacts on airplanes, not to prevent attacks of any kind. A plane being attacked has huge ripple effects on the economy and the perception of national security. An attack at a security checkpoint is news for a week or two and gets written off as "you can't prevent every type of attack."

Most of the major recent tragedies in the USA have involved firearms not explosives. So metal detectors are much better at spotting those who think they should be allowed to carry guns everywhere as well as those who can easily get hold of guns

 

[Coaster Lover]

It was phenomenal for us staying at the Hard Rock. Never had more than a group of 3 ahead of us at our little security check point and could easily navigate all 3 areas of the parks/City Walk freely. If they're trying to get to something similar here that'd be awesome.

Unfortunately, in this case, Universal has the huge advantage in the compactness of the resort. Whether it was pre-planned like this or not, having the parking garage and all other forms of public transportation for City Walk, IOA, and Universal all funnel through a single area was just a brilliant move and something that would be difficult (if not impossible) to replicate at Disney.

I think the best option (with regards to the Magic Kingdom alone) would be to have as much of the security screening done at the TTC and monorail resorts as possible with a separate screening area at the MK bus loop for all the resort buses and people walking from the Contemporary. All the bus guesst funnel into a single area already which would be easy enough to add security areas to and once you have them screened, if everyone else is screened at either the TTC or the monorail resort, then the rest of the entrance plaza becomes a secure area which would prevent a lot of unnecessary traffic patterns to keep screened and un-screened guests separated. The big gripe might be monorail resort guests who are just trying to get to other monorail resort (as opposed to trying to get to EPCOT or MK) needing to go through security. In this regards, might it be possible to have a single car on each resort loop monorail that would not open at the MK or TTC stations allowing monorail resort guests to resort hop via the monorail without security screening?

 

[EOD K9]

People landing at MCO and using DME are already secure. They will be sent to special areas of each hotel and will be considered secured at all times unless they leave the resort. They will be given gold color magic bands. These guests will travel on secure busses to and from the parks. This has been in the works for a while now. You can expect this to be implemented on April 1st 2017.

 

[DisneyCane]

Most of the major recent tragedies in the USA have involved firearms not explosives. So metal detectors are much better at spotting those who think they should be allowed to carry guns everywhere as well as those who can easily get hold of guns

Ummmm.... If somebody is carrying a rifle, you don't need a metal detector to spot it. If somebody is carrying a handgun, they can easily hide it in a bag in a way that won't be seen by check unless you x-ray the bag. The only people that will get caught with a handgun by a metal detector is somebody that either didn't know that guns were banned at Disney or forgot they were carrying because they do all the time. Nobody that has plans to go and shoot people is going to be so dumb as to think they can walk through a metal detector with a gun on them.

Honestly, it is all pretty pointless security. If somebody really wants to go shoot up Disney, they'll just walk right through security and not stop when told to. Hopefully the police can get to them before they shoot too many people.

The sad fact is that if somebody is willing to die in order to carry out an attack there is really nothing you can do to prevent the attack. There have probably been tens of thousands of guns carried by guests in parks over the years and none of them shot anybody. That's because 99.9999999999999999999999% of people that own a gun or have access to a gun don't want to kill anybody. These are the people that will get stopped by security.

If it makes you feel better and safer that they are stopped that's great but, in reality, if somebody or some group wants to carry out an attack and is willing to die doing it, they will kill people. The ONLY way to prevent an attack completely is to discover the plot in the planning stages.

You can make it so the attack happens at the security area or near the front entrance or on the monorail instead of on Main Street or the queue for Space Mountain but you can't prevent it.

 

[Jon81uk]

Ummmm.... If somebody is carrying a rifle, you don't need a metal detector to spot it. If somebody is carrying a handgun, they can easily hide it in a bag in a way that won't be seen by check unless you x-ray the bag. The only people that will get caught with a handgun by a metal detector is somebody that either didn't know that guns were banned at Disney or forgot they were carrying because they do all the time. Nobody that has plans to go and shoot people is going to be so dumb as to think they can walk through a metal detector with a gun on them.

Honestly, it is all pretty pointless security. If somebody really wants to go shoot up Disney, they'll just walk right through security and not stop when told to. Hopefully the police can get to them before they shoot too many people.

The sad fact is that if somebody is willing to die in order to carry out an attack there is really nothing you can do to prevent the attack. There have probably been tens of thousands of guns carried by guests in parks over the years and none of them shot anybody. That's because 99.9999999999999999999999% of people that own a gun or have access to a gun don't want to kill anybody. These are the people that will get stopped by security.

If it makes you feel better and safer that they are stopped that's great but, in reality, if somebody or some group wants to carry out an attack and is willing to die doing it, they will kill people. The ONLY way to prevent an attack completely is to discover the plot in the planning stages.

You can make it so the attack happens at the security area or near the front entrance or on the monorail instead of on Main Street or the queue for Space Mountain but you can't prevent it.

I agree, no security will ever be perfect, I was just pointing out that most recent tragedies in the US have involved guns not explosives so therefore metal detectors are a good additional level of security. But as you say, without going one step further and adding X-rays the system still isn't perfect.

 

[daguru]

Permanent metal detectors for everyone is a wonderful idea, so I totally hope this is true. But, I do wonder why they left out MK -- the park that especially needs it most.

If it is security related, could be because MK may not be able to support closing some of the entrances right now.... Maybe wait until early 2017 after the parties are over...

 

[mgf]

If WDW were critical infrastructure - a bridge, an airport, a tunnel - moving the security perimeter would be a strategic recognition that continued future operation of the asset is more important than symbolism. The issue here is any checkpoint will still be "on Disney property". The symbolic impact of an attack will always be outsized.

That a major incident happens at the TCC vs the plaza in front of the MK will not make a material difference when it comes to the economic impact. It might make a marginal difference when it comes to the human toll. It would have perhaps the largest from an infrastructure security standpoint, but that is unlikely Disney's chief concern here.

 

[mm121]

Its a decent effort, but that has waaaayyyy too many traffic flows to be anything approaching efficient or easily understood for Guests without signs and single-file queue filling the plaza.

If they make the monorail "secure", all foot traffic approaching the monorail at resorts or TTC is screened. At the MK, both Express and Resort beams both dump into the central platform like they do now. Down the ramp from here, all traffic is routed to the left, behind the security checkpoints and thus within the "secure" area. Presumably the resort monorail would also have to be approached from inside the secure area, otherwise an unsecure person could board at the MK, ride all the way around, then exit into the secure area.

All bus, ferry and Resort boat launches would be funnelled as they are now, to the central security checkpoint. Lines would be shorter, because tve satellite checks would reduce the workload.

Leaving MK, you could hop on the Express monorail and transfer to the Epcot monorail. If they can figure out how to keep exiting traffic from the monorail at Epcot within a "secure" zone, then there's no need to go through a bag screen again.

The Epcot logistics will be the trickiest, I think. They have to figure out the monorail-exits-as-secure, otherwise you're forcing guests at their most expensive hotels to do bag check twice just to get to Epcot: once at their hotel monorail platform, then again at Epcot.

-Rob

Version 2.0

simplified the guest flows

 

[Obobru]

Disneyland Paris has a good security set up which seems to move fast but is still using temporary tents after years as they clearly don't have the budget to build something more nicer looking. They do a great job too as the last time I visited the guy in front had a small penknife which was picked up on the scanner and he had to throw it out.

 

[Andrew C]

Disneyland Paris has a good security set up which seems to move fast but is still using temporary tents after years as they clearly don't have the budget to build something more nicer looking. They do a great job too as the last time I visited the guy in front had a small penknife which was picked up on the scanner and he had to throw it out.

I think it's easier to handle at DLP. The guests enter more sporadically, where at MK you get a bunch at once from either the monorail or boat. Also, seems like there is just way more people entering MK.

 

[JLipnick]

Version 2.0

simplified the guest flows
View attachment 162270

the way i see it, there is a much easier way to do this. have security at TTC before getting on monorails and boats. have security before all boats and monorails at the resorts (Poly, Contemporary, Wilderness Lodge, fort wilderness and GF). lastly, have security set up before getting on monorail at EPCOT. with all this, all they need security checkpoints set up at the MK plaza would be for guests arriving via bus and walking path from Contemporary. all other access via the boats and monorails would already be screened therefore simplifying your map ten fold. obviously this would mean devices and more security personnel at a bunch of locations, but it would already be needing all of the devices and security guards. it would just be spread out a bit.

 

[Creathir]

the way i see it, there is a much easier way to do this. have security at TTC before getting on monorails and boats. have security before all boats and monorails at the resorts (Poly, Contemporary, Wilderness Lodge, fort wilderness and GF). lastly, have security set up before getting on monorail at EPCOT. with all this, all they need security checkpoints set up at the MK plaza would be for guests arriving via bus and walking path from Contemporary. all other access via the boats and monorails would already be screened therefore simplifying your map ten fold. obviously this would mean devices and more security personnel at a bunch of locations, but it would already be needing all of the devices and security guards. it would just be spread out a bit.

I agree 100%.

The only negative is something like a boat may or may not be "secure" like a monorail traveling a track in the air is.

I could see the large TTC-MK ferry being pre screened, and the resort boats being dropped off outside the secure area.

 

[Siren]

Why is it a wonderful idea? Unless they also add x-rays for bag scanning and carefully inspect all strollers they don't really add any real security. Somebody could get explosives through metal detectors pretty easily. For any sort of real security you'd need airport type body scanners instead of metal detectors.

Only with full airport style security can you have a realistic chance to keep weapons and explosives out of the parks. Sure, you'll get a news story once in a while about some guy that was caught trying to bring a pistol in. They'll make a big deal about it but in reality it will just be somebody with a concealed carry permit that forgot (or didn't know) that Disney prohibits firearms.

Somebody or a group plotting an attack would not be so stupid as to be able to be stopped by metal detectors. I hate to tell you that the most likely place for some type of attack is in the area where everybody is packed together waiting to go through the security checkpoint. It's the same at an airport. The TSA is in place to prevent attacts on airplanes, not to prevent attacks of any kind. A plane being attacked has huge ripple effects on the economy and the perception of national security. An attack at a security checkpoint is news for a week or two and gets written off as "you can't prevent every type of attack."

Hi @DisneyCane! Wow, you've made so many excellent points, I totally agree. But, Disney has to start somewhere and nothing is 100% foolproof or perfect but it's a start.

I would also love for Disney to add the bag scanning machines, it's more thorough and the lines would move so much faster, too. And, everyone needs to be scanned -- random is just not good enough.

If it is security related, could be because MK may not be able to support closing some of the entrances right now.... Maybe wait until early 2017 after the parties are over...

Hi @daguru! That totally makes sense, if anything Disney should be adding more entrances. I think the monorail should have metal detectors, too. But, then people will have to go through the metal detectors twice so that's too much, I guess.