MrPromey
Well-Known Member
Will edit for that - thank you!
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Elemental (Pixar - June 2023)
- Thread starter DCBaker
- Start date
TP2000
Well-Known Member
I should have clarified that my comment was about Pixar and WDAS movies in particular. And since both of those studios now create films that are nearly impossible to tell apart, I lump them together, as I imagine many average 2020's consumers do.
Lightyear flopped, Strange World was a historic mega bomb, and now Elemental looks like it's going to slot somewhere between those two options. At best, a Lightyear style average flop.
And yet both of those animation studios spend $150 to $200 Million on each film to get there? Not sustainable.
MrPromey
Well-Known Member
And that's the kind of thing where an experienced story teller needed to step in and say "This isn't worth it for that gag. We need a better way to sell his connection to others - it's a fun idea and we'll do voice-over animatics of this scene for the bluray extras so it won't be completely lost, though."
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
The scene wasn’t my favorite but it didn’t really bother me. But to your point there were definitely better ways to move the story forward.
MrPromey
Well-Known Member
This makes me think of a Hot Ones: First We Feast episode featuring Tenacious D that I just watched. (it's old but it was new to me)
They were asked about their worst live performance and without hesitation, they both know exactly which one. Jack black talks about how bad it was going but then he spots one guy in the very back who really seemed to be into it... then he realized what the guy was mouthing.
BlakeW39
Well-Known Member
as with all things... I believe there is a balance.
on one hand, you gotta let artists tell the stories that they want to tell. otherwise you get a product made by committee that isn't really any good.
but on the other you need a film that actually appeals to your audience.. because you're making the film for them.
this ties in to a lot of problems with storytelling today, and this whole push to "subvert expectations." people have expectations of a product that they are paying for.. if you buy a wrench, and the store clerk gives you a hammer to subvert the expectations of what you are buying... you'll probably be pi$$ed
same thing with a movie. there's leeway for surprise, but when you pay for a Star Wars movie, you expect a Star Wars movie. Same thing for a [insert comic book character] movie. Even videogames like The Last of Us Part 2. Subverting expectations to give them a product they don't want and one you misled them to think they were getting, warrants backlash.
Elemental isn't that. Elemental isn't flopping because it wasn't made for a broad audience. It's flopping because it was percieved as unspectacular by general audiences and because Disney/Pixar as a brand has less draw now than it did in the past. Plus post-covid theatre draw. Plus a crowded lineup of competition.
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
I’ve taken my son to see pretty much every major animated movie that’s come out in the past year and I think I liked Elemental more than just about all of them. Mario and Puss n Boots were both fun but I think I was more emotionally engaged with Elemental. I also think it might have more repeat value.
I definitely like Elemental more than Paws Of Fury, Luck, Minions and DC League of Pets although all those movies had their moments I don’t remember being as engaged from start to finish. Again, Ive only see them all once so there might be some recency bias. It’s also way better than Turning Red and Lightyear. Better than Luca. Might be a toss up with Soul.
It has a 90% on rotten tomatoes. I think the issue is that they haven’t adjusted their budgets to the new world we live in. It seems like it’s going to be tough for an original animated movie to be box office smash these days. That or just don’t have them on D+ until 6 months after they re released in theatres.
I definitely like Elemental more than Paws Of Fury, Luck, Minions and DC League of Pets although all those movies had their moments I don’t remember being as engaged from start to finish. Again, Ive only see them all once so there might be some recency bias. It’s also way better than Turning Red and Lightyear. Better than Luca. Might be a toss up with Soul.
It has a 90% on rotten tomatoes. I think the issue is that they haven’t adjusted their budgets to the new world we live in. It seems like it’s going to be tough for an original animated movie to be box office smash these days. That or just don’t have them on D+ until 6 months after they re released in theatres.
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TalkingHead
Well-Known Member
Since this is bound to come up at some point:
Well, at least minor this time.
So you don't actually want to address the point I'm making about something being personal to the director.
That's cool, I'm bored of talking about it too.
And Luca's story was also universal.
MrPromey
Well-Known Member
That's the frustrating part, to me. It was rendered beautifully. The concept wasn't bad. It could have been a really great movie. Plenty of story elements worked. This wasn't a Good Dinosaur train wreak. It could have been way better than it was without a lot of changes.
There is this great interview with Ed Catmull from 2008 taking about how Pixar handled their creative process in those days.
It feels like something significant has changed from that process for them to be making the movies they are these days and having seen Luck, I don't think it's just the absence of John Lasater.
I don't know what it is but I hope they figure it out.
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mickEblu
Well-Known Member
I still don’t understand how they think this will get more people in seats when it does the opposite. I think Disney shot their shot too early with Lightyear and Strange World and are still experiencing the fall out.
Who the heck cares!!!! Would anyone even have known that if the voice actress wasn't excited and didn't tweet that?
Are you all that scared of the term non-binary that if a character that is literally water doesn't identify as male or female it will stop you from seeing the movie?
HIDE THE CHILDREN!!!
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
No, they wouldn’t which is why its even more unnecessary.
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
Let’s just not get into that and focus on the business side of it. These decisions are costing them a lot of money and either they’re too stupid to realize it or have some sort of God complex.
You can't separate it.
If people quit their incessant complaining and protesting about people's choices, then people won't feel the need to announce their choices just to be heard because they will be accepted and heard already.
Everyone will just be who they are without needing to defend themselves.
Then everyone can just shut up, my god, shut up!!!
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mickEblu
Well-Known Member
You can't separate it.
If people quit their incessant complaining and protesting about people's choices, then people won't feel the need to announce their choices because they are accepted already.
Everyone will just be.
Everyone can just shut up, my god!!!
So Disneys game plan should be to hope that people suddenly change their minds?
WorldExplorer
Well-Known Member
It's been a long time since I've really paid attention, but from what I remember, a lot of the string of "WOW" Pixar hits had the same five or six guys playing huge roles in the films. People point to Lasseter all the time, but there was also Pete Docter, Andrew Stanton, and Brad Bird (and probably others I'm forgetting). Even Lee Unkrich, creator of Coco (the last good one, as far as I'm concerned) was having a big say in films as early as Toy Story 2. The most positively recieved before that was probably Inside Out, which was, again, Docter.
It's possible that the people they have now just...aren't as good.
There was a period where they seemed to be trying to get new talent, like four films in a row had directors that had never directed a full film there and they were all kicked out mid-film (*Points to Sohn taking over Good Dinosaur*). Pixar was never the same since then.
Of course, Docter made Soul, which I maintain was mediocre, so maybe they've all lost touch anyway.
(Stanton was open about Finding Dory being for money.)
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