Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

Mouse Detective

Well-Known Member
Here's what makes we wonder.. Is anyone running around saying "I wish I could be Avatar or go there". There's no wands to wave. Where is the merchandise that keeps this thing alive?

I would expect that Disney will have a lot to say about what goes into the second and (especially) third Avatar films in order to make sure there are plenty of merchandising opportunities subsequent to the films. Expect some food items too that can then be offered at an Avatar-Land restaurant. If the first film offered little, that mistake won't happen again.
 

ChrisFL

Premium Member
I would expect that Disney will have a lot to say about what goes into the second and (especially) third Avatar films in order to make sure there are plenty of merchandising opportunities subsequent to the films. Expect some food items too that can then be offered at an Avatar-Land restaurant. If the first film offered little, that mistake won't happen again.

I forsee the nitpicking by the Disney fan community of the next 2 films already.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
DO TELL. I'm a bit of a David Lynch fan.

There were discussions back in the 90's about what he may collaboration there may be in creating online experiences. I was selected to meet with him and brainstorm some ideas at a dinner. We got along great, he was very nice, only he kept calling me "Butch"! As I recall, he liked this idea of having a webcam looking at a person captive in a dark box or something similar. We riffed on that and other quirky things. I pitched collecting and printing acetate autopsy X-rays or something as part of an online crime investigation. The next day I was back working on "Winnie the Pooh" or something.

It all went nowhere.
 

WDWGoof07

Well-Known Member
We covered this before, but the animated Alice in the 50's was badly reviewed and a box office flop, Mr. Toad was a short subject with little awareness, "Third Man on the Mountain" was obscure as Disney properties go, but all inspired great rides and are considered classics. It's all in mining the right things from the story or the world it's set in. Again, it's all in the execution.
That's what I've been saying in the main thread about Avatar land. The story and characters from that movie were terrible, but the environment of Pandora itself (both the jungles and the human base) and the non-humanoid creatures are fodder for excellent theme park lands. If they keep the good elements from the movie and downplay, and, in some cases, outright discard, the bad parts, I'll view this land as a creative success, even if I do have some reservations about its placement, although even my view on that could change after it opens.

P.S. I'm glad that time has been kind to Walt Disney's version of Alice in Wonderland because it's one of my favorite movies. Not being alive back then, it seems a bit unreal to me that it was so unappreciated.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
That's what I've been saying in the main thread about Avatar land. The story and characters from that movie were terrible, but the environment of Pandora itself (both the jungles and the human base) and the non-humanoid creatures are fodder for excellent theme park lands. If they keep the good elements from the movie and downplay, and, in some cases, outright discard, the bad parts, I'll view this land as a creative success, even if I do have some reservations about its placement, although even my view on that could change after it opens.

P.S. I'm glad that time has been kind to Walt Disney's version of Alice in Wonderland because it's one of my favorite movies. Not being alive back then, it seems a bit unreal to me that it was so unappreciated.

Look at what a hit the ElecTRONica thing is at DCA. They kept the Glow sticks and cocktails.
 

S.E.A.

Member
I can't wait to hear Mr Rhode's opinion on this because I sincerely think that he will be 100% in favor of Avatar at DAK and not just because he has to be. Next person to see him at DAK should ask him.

I'd imagine that somebody with such a clear vision for Disney's Animal Kingdom wouldn't exactly be jumping for joy at the news of being forced to shoehorn in a property that's not really that cohesive with the theme of the park. If he was 100% behind it then he would have already had some sort of off the cuff statement proclaiming his excitement by now.
 

S.E.A.

Member
We covered this before, but the animated Alice in the 50's was badly reviewed and a box office flop, Mr. Toad was a short subject with little awareness, "Third Man on the Mountain" was obscure as Disney properties go, but all inspired great rides and are considered classics. It's all in mining the right things from the story or the world it's set in. Again, it's all in the execution.

The argument seems to be whether there is anything that interesting to mine in Avatar. Alice had interesting characters, (a Caterpillar smoking dope, Evil twins, Headless cat, etc) and an interesting world, so you exploit that by letting people explore it and come back. Third Man had a Mountain, you let people conquer that "mountain climbing" challenge in a Bobsled. Toad became all about reckless driving ending in a near death experience, so you get to do that and survive too. No dialog and story to get in the way. As Hitchcock once said, "Movies are real life with the boring parts cut out". So rides are just movies with their boring parts cut out, so that's why they only last 3 minutes. We experience the Sunday night sports "highlight reel".

One thing that's different between the Avatar acquisition and the aforementioned attractions was that they were singlular attractions. The interesting elements were all funneled and focused into one great, memorable experience. With Avatar, they have to find a way to mine the world for a whole land meaning they'll have to come up with layers upon layers of story for it all to be coherent. It's gonna be quite a challenge.

My main issue with it though is that it really doesn't belong in DAK.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
I'd imagine that somebody with such a clear vision for Disney's Animal Kingdom wouldn't exactly be jumping for joy at the news of being forced to shoehorn in a property that's not really that cohesive with the theme of the park. If he was 100% behind it then he would have already had some sort of off the cuff statement proclaiming his excitement by now.

Rohde's "Beastly Kingdom" was to be all about mythological beasts, so Avatar is only a modern myth, and is also fantasy. I'm sure that's how he must see it.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
Poor reviews did not stop them from building a land for Potter and it has done very well. I saw one of the movies and was literally falling asleep. So I am not sure it matters how many fresh vs rotten tomatoes a film gets as to how it will do as a theme park addition. Avatar is the highest grossing film of all time by a long shot. Poor films do not preform this way. Interesting spin by you because of the absurdity of it.:rolleyes::lol: I do agree the film was more a message of the environmental extremist :hurl: than the sound science of conservationism but that can be 'fixed' going forward. And hopefully will be. This is a brilliant add for DAK. Take off the blinders.

Highest grossing film because :

1) 3-D gimmick - first real studio film built from the ground up to be 3-D, so the 3-D was presented in a way like never before,

2) Ticket prices up to double the cost due to the "3-D tax".

3) Little competition (and no competition in the 3-D gimmick realm)

4) Public curiosity/fascination with the 3-D concept/tech from people who wouldn't have gone near the film otherwise (see #1)

Hey, I give the guy props. He knows how to give teenagers what they want to see and makes a boat load of money. But that doesn't mean it was a great film. Basically, he took what Spielberg started with Jurrasic Park, Lucas continued with the SW prequels, Jackson matured with LOTR, and combined it all together to make a true CGI film. (Though, the motion capture he seems so impressed by himself with that he tried to get Oscar nominations for the "actors" is really nothing new, at all - Disney was doing rotoscoping back in the 30's for Snow White, it's just the evolution of the idea.)

Now, the broader question is - now what. Avatar sure was pretty, but also devoid of any warmth or emotion whatsoever. I think the point I am making, and that I believe Eddie is also going for, is that besides the technical merits, there isn't much there. Star Wars and Potter have grand heroes/heroines/villains who transcended being film characters and became iconic on their own. The most iconic thing about Avatar was 3-D...and Cameron. In those other films, little kids (and some adults) dreamed of being plucked out of obscurity and told they had some great destiny. Of being part of those worlds.

The same cannot be said for Avatar. The most that can be said is that he created a very, very pretty world. But there was nothing really under it, emotionally or even really conceptually. But you know what - LOL - that makes it a great fit for AK. Never really made that connection, but here you have a park that people go ga-ga over the environment, but it's lack of depth and attractions is only lightly covered by that. An inch of cake and a mile of frosting. Just like Avatar. ;)

Actually, now that I realize that, it's a perfect fit. ;)
 

Longhairbear

Well-Known Member
I've read this thread, but new to posting on it. I've not seen Avatar, so I cannot comment fairly about it being at DAK. But I can give a biased opinion of DAK, as it our favorite park. It is a two day park for us.
Eddie, you mention Alice etc. earlier as attractions attached to lesser known, or otherwise as less than box office winners. That made me remember an armchair imagineer idea I had years ago. Who has seen or knows of "In Search Of The Castaways"? I loved the movie as a kid (I'm that old). Most of my Disney fan pals have never heard of it. AKA "Captain Grant's Children", in it's original form as a novel by Jules Verne, and was the second part of his trilogy that started with 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea, and ended with Mysterious Island. Disney made Leagues, and Castaways, but Columbia got Island. In the novel Mysterious Island, the teenage characters from Castaways are the now adult rescuers of the castaways on the mysterious island where the Nautilus had ended up.
My armchair idea was one of combining all 3 novels as a land or attraction.
In Castaways, the characters follow the 49th parallel across the world to find Capt. Grant. They have all kinds of adventures, including meeting lots of animals from different lands. They eventually find him on an island, which happens to be near the Mysterious Island in the next novel.
Eddie, have you seen In Search Of The Castaways? I haven't been to Disney Sea, so I also wonder if Castaways is hidden anywhere in the theming.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
I've read this thread, but new to posting on it. I've not seen Avatar, so I cannot comment fairly about it being at DAK. But I can give a biased opinion of DAK, as it our favorite park. It is a two day park for us.
Eddie, you mention Alice etc. earlier as attractions attached to lesser known, or otherwise as less than box office winners. That made me remember an armchair imagineer idea I had years ago. Who has seen or knows of "In Search Of The Castaways"? I loved the movie as a kid (I'm that old). Most of my Disney fan pals have never heard of it. AKA "Captain Grant's Children", in it's original form as a novel by Jules Verne, and was the second part of his trilogy that started with 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea, and ended with Mysterious Island. Disney made Leagues, and Castaways, but Columbia got Island. In the novel Mysterious Island, the teenage characters from Castaways are the now adult rescuers of the castaways on the mysterious island where the Nautilus had ended up.
My armchair idea was one of combining all 3 novels as a land or attraction.
In Castaways, the characters follow the 49th parallel across the world to find Capt. Grant. They have all kinds of adventures, including meeting lots of animals from different lands. They eventually find him on an island, which happens to be near the Mysterious Island in the next novel.
Eddie, have you seen In Search Of The Castaways? I haven't been to Disney Sea, so I also wonder if Castaways is hidden anywhere in the theming.

I'm not sure if it is or not. I have seen the movie and it feels more like a Matterhorn type experience (on a big rock with a lap bar!) than anything else.
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
Rohde's "Beastly Kingdom" was to be all about mythological beasts, so Avatar is only a modern myth, and is also fantasy. I'm sure that's how he must see it.

If I were Joe, I would be applying to Universal right now since Disney does not seem to care about my vision for the park that is basically my baby.
 

Vernonpush

Well-Known Member
If I were Joe, I would be applying to Universal right now since Disney does not seem to care about my vision for the park that is basically my baby.

Actually, this whole Avatar Project may be the kind of diversion that AK might need to draw the crowds away from EE while they do an extensive rehab on the Yeti-- Joe might be thrilled. Give the people a "fresher weenie" while the "latest weenie" is made to work again.:shrug:
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
Actually, this whole Avatar Project may be the kind of diversion that AK might need to draw the crowds away from EE while they do an extensive rehab on the Yeti-- Joe might be thrilled. Give the people a "fresher weenie" while the "latest weenie" is made to work again.:shrug:

As much as it pains me to say it I will take a broken yeti over a thematic violation.
 
I soooo wish they would have made a star wars land at MGM instead!! I just hated the avatar movie and thought it was very much overhyped. But I liked the world of pandora, just not any of the characters. Hopefully Disney can pull of something special here and prove us all wrong.
 

Vernonpush

Well-Known Member
As much as it pains me to say it I will take a broken yeti over a thematic violation.
I don't understand your "thematic violation" views. :shrug: The theme of the movie was 'respect the land and it's domestic life forms'. That is the whole "theme" of the move (besides 3D effects). How is this different to the "theme" of AK? It can't be because it's mythical--(EE or BK). I didn't really think that the Avatar movie was really that great, but alot of people did according to box-office (I waited to watch it at home on PPV- I think that alot of the hype was from the "3D". Which is what I fear will be the whole "experience" in the land-- Another "screen based" ride.---but that's a whole other thread, lol) But I do think that the "theme" of the movie fits in with the "theme" of the Park. If this "diversion/ slight of hand" gets people to look the other way, and they can "Fix The Yetti" in that time, that's all good. There have been many threads harping on the fact that they cannot put EE "out of service" until they have another "E" ticket ride. This may be that "E" ride in a "C/B" land to get "Joe's Baby" back to what it should be.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
If I were Joe, I would be applying to Universal right now since Disney does not seem to care about my vision for the park that is basically my baby.

So you speak for him now? Perhaps we should wait and hear from him rather than running with an assumption. I think it is possible you might be misreading the entire situation.
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
So you speak for him now? Perhaps we should wait and hear from him rather than running with an assumption. I think it is possible you might be misreading the entire situation.

I never said I speak for him. I am just saying what I would do if I were in his position.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom