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[CaptainAmerica]

I don’t think yankee is arguing this in a court case…he’s saying that perception is reality for a lot of consumers.

no where moreso than Disney…where it’s completely disposable and they lean in on selling their reputation more and more over the Product quality with every passing day.

I actually think it would be in Disney's best interest to off a bunch of 100 point Old Key West owners so they can gobble up those contracts in ROFR, extend them to 2057, and flip them at a $54 markup per point.

 

[correcaminos]

I actually think it would be in Disney's best interest to **** off a bunch of 100 point Old Key West owners so they can gobble up those contracts in ROFR, extend them to 2057, and flip them at a $54 markup per point.

That's what they've been doing - the buying to resell at 2057 contracts but for different reasons. They don't want to be responsible once all the 2042 quit claims come back.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I actually think it would be in Disney's best interest to **** off a bunch of 100 point Old Key West owners so they can gobble up those contracts in ROFR, extend them to 2057, and flip them at a $54 markup per point.

That's what they've been doing - the buying to resell at 2057 contracts but for different reasons. They don't want to be responsible once all the 2042 quit claims come back.

Ok…totally not the same thing at all…but good tip

 

[correcaminos]

Aulani was built specially for the Japanese market…which got really messed up around the same time as Fukushima…

as you said…to dump the points, they sell them to the wrong people…

it was NOT meant to be sold in block to people from Boston that want to stay at boardwalk in October or the poly in April.

yes and no

Yes they weren't meant for that market. No as in Disney didn't care and it's money in.

Now that I am on my computer I have actual numbers to look at...

Aulani is 14.97% of total DVC points.
Saratoga is 18.24%. Both used to obviously be higher before RR

Copper Creek and PVB total points are about 5% total each - including cabins and bungalows. Both run just over 1% of points total

Riviera is surprisingly 8.76% of all the points. OKW is only 9.98% by comparison. AKL combined (Kidani and Jambo) 9.62%. Bay Lake is 7.45%

Surmise as you will on this, but it is easy to see where some issues are. When you buy into a resort at low amounts and for a place you don't want to stay AND it comes from a large percentage of points total, that says a lot.

Once I get VGF numbers for the rooms I'll see what that does. We'll get a lot more studios again and percentages will change. But what people see as "problem" numbers will go down every time we get a new resort. Though some of the huge resorts where people buy but never want to stay? Those will take a while...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

yes and no

Yes they weren't meant for that market. No as in Disney didn't care and it's money in.

Now that I am on my computer I have actual numbers to look at...

Aulani is 14.97% of total DVC points.
Saratoga is 18.24%. Both used to obviously be higher before RR

Copper Creek and PVB total points are about 5% total each - including cabins and bungalows. Both run just over 1% of points total

Riviera is surprisingly 8.76% of all the points. OKW is only 9.98% by comparison. AKL combined (Kidani and Jambo) 9.62%. Bay Lake is 7.45%

Surmise as you will on this, but it is easy to see where some issues are. When you buy into a resort at low amounts and for a place you don't want to stay AND it comes from a large percentage of points total, that says a lot.

Once I get VGF numbers for the rooms I'll see what that does. We'll get a lot more studios again and percentages will change. But what people see as "problem" numbers will go down every time we get a new resort. Though some of the huge resorts where people buy but never want to stay? Those will take a while...

I’m not debating the global “theory of DVC”…just pointing out the individual things that put SOME stress on the system…not trying to ID the biggest offenders.

for instance…back to the poly/wl bungs…even “they’re booked” doesn’t prove that they didn’t flood points into the system that are taking up studios elsewhere…that would be correct if the 650,000 ish points created by them were booked in them almost all the time…which if those points were sold off in 200 point chunks - very likely for a large number of them…they aren’t being used to stay in bungalows 2.5 nights per years. It’s more likely grandfathered, cheap points that are bored at okw or Saratoga or hhi are going in them a fair amount. If that’s true…certainly realistic…then the actual points sold are going to newer, smaller rooms and flooding…

its really the same as what you said about the 50 points being a problem. Not maybe as big of one…but adding to the whole picture.

as far as Aulani goes…it was built to pull the travelers from Japan - who have vacationed/golfed in Hawaii since Hiroshima…that’s not a secret. They also want stateside travelers…but it wouldn’t have been built as big as it is without these assumptions. So yankee is pointing out a problem with it: points sold form Aulani not to be used there.

my in laws bought Hilton head in 1998…they stayed there for the first time in 2014 or 16. That’s a problem when you overbuild and flood points and the demand will always be for about 5 places in wdw. That’s adding to the availability issue overall as well.

Saratoga is a huge one as well. Shameless to build that many units when they KNEW if would be the last choice. Failed property for a reason prior.

 

[correcaminos]

I’m not debating the global “theory of DVC”…just pointing out the individual things that put SOME stress on the system…not trying to ID the biggest offenders.

for instance…back to the poly/wl bungs…even “they’re booked” doesn’t prove that they didn’t flood points into the system that are taking up studios elsewhere…that would be correct if the 650,000 ish points created by them were booked in them almost all the time…which if those points were sold off in 200 point chunks - very likely for a large number of them…they aren’t being used to stay in bungalows 2.5 nights per years. It’s more likely grandfathered, cheap points that are bored at okw or Saratoga or hhi are going in them a fair amount. If that’s true…certainly realistic…then the actually points sold are going to newer, smaller rooms and flooding…

its really the same as what you said about the 50 points being a problem. Not maybe as big of one…but adding to the whole picture.

as far as Aulani goes…it was built to pull the travelers from Japan - who have vacationed/golfed in Hawaii since Hiroshima…that’s not a secret. They also want stateside trackers…but it wouldn’t have been built as big as it is without these assumptions. So yankee is pointing out a problem with it: points sold form Aulani not to be used there.

my in laws bought Hilton head in 1998…they stayed there for the first time in 2014 or 16. That’s a problem when you overbuild and flood points and the demand will always be for about 5 places in wdw. That’s adding to the availability issue overall as well.

Saratoga is a huge one as well. Shameless to build that many units when they KNEW if would be the last choice. Failed property for a reason prior.

HHI has a teeny percentage of points. I think 1.5%

They aren't the problem. And again neither are the bungalows. They absolutely did not flood the points with bungalows because it's such a tiny percentage. When the studio issue is prior to even the announcement of PVB or CCV you know that's not the issue. Buying and never staying where you own can be.

Aulani was meant for certain clientele. But that's not who bought there. OKW is even being harder to book because people are buying for elsewhere. Aulani is a problem. SSR growth was a bad idea IMO.

The small point purchases hosed a lot. We'll never fix it either. Any time I put a small contract on sale, that's going to allow a buy in.

Of course I'm still waiting on the resale company to even acknowledge they got my offer. Slightly annoyed lol

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

HHI has a teeny percentage of points. I think 1.5%

They aren't the problem. And again neither are the bungalows. They absolutely did not flood the points with bungalows because it's such a tiny percentage. When the studio issue is prior to even the announcement of PVB or CCV you know that's not the issue. Buying and never staying where you own can be.

Aulani was meant for certain clientele. But that's not who bought there. OKW is even being harder to book because people are buying for elsewhere. Aulani is a problem. SSR growth was a bad idea IMO.

The small point purchases hosed a lot. We'll never fix it either. Any time I put a small contract on sale, that's going to allow a buy in.

Of course I'm still waiting on the resale company to even acknowledge they got my offer. Slightly annoyed lol

Ok…you run a resell site? That makes way more contextual sense if so…

 

[correcaminos]

Ok…you run a resell site? That makes way more contextual sense if so…

No.... meant that as a generic. I have 3 small contracts though that I bought direct. If I ran a resale site I wouldn't he waiting on my offer lol.

I compiled data from all the resorts that I have which tells me percentages. Nothing big as others do it too.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

No.... meant that as a generic. I have 3 small contracts though that I bought direct. If I ran a resale site I wouldn't he waiting on my offer lol.

I compiled data from all the resorts that I have which tells me percentages. Nothing big as others do it too.

I gotcha…I’m not so sure the numbers percentages…but I get it.

my personal belief it’s a combination of percentages (Saratoga), increasing points per unit (started with Saratoga and gotten stupid since) and the shifting demands associated from above.

there’s a reason why studios at beach, boardwalk and wilderness are typically gone…they are the far better value per night

 

[correcaminos]

I gotcha…I’m not so sure the numbers percentages…but I get it.

my personal belief it’s a combination of percentages (Saratoga), increasing points per unit (started with Saratoga and gotten stupid since) and the shifting demands associated from above.

there’s a reason why studios at beach, boardwalk and wilderness are typically gone…they are the far better value per night

Increasing points per unit? Do you mean resort or room types?

SSR is lower than BCV and BWV if you mean per room type. The latter two are similar to BRV and CCV. I consider those the middle ground. The preferred with SSR is just below that with standard similar to OKW. BLT is above middle with VGF and PVB similar. For the life of me I cannot recall if RR is just above or below that.

SSR is last to book because of the pure number of rooms. BCV is rather tiny. BWV has the issue that all 2 bedrooms are lock offs so it messes with that. They are not gone as fast tbh as I have booked there many times. But they book due to location as well BCV for that and the fact there are few rooms to book. Value of rooms is relative. I think OKW or SSR studios are top value. Both CCV and BRV also have lower room numbers. PVB is high in points but lots of rooms so usually easier to get. VGF also lacks actual rooms but that'll improve for studios this summer.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Saratoga is a huge one as well. Shameless to build that many units when they KNEW if would be the last choice. Failed property for a reason prior.

Well, it isn’t the last choice for some of us. SSR is our home resort and we love it. Fully half of our stays over the last 15 years have been there by choice, not because we couldn’t find somewhere else. Yes, we have also stayed at almost all of the DVC resorts (only BRV, CCV, and Riviera are left), and we really haven’t had any problem getting what we want at 7 months. We travel in March every year and then in either September, October, or December.

 

[correcaminos]

Well, it isn’t the last choice for some of us. SSR is our home resort and we love it. Fully half of our stays over the last 15 years have been there by choice, not because we couldn’t find somewhere else. Yes, we have also stayed at almost all of the DVC resorts (only BRV, CCV, and Riviera are left), and we really haven’t had any problem getting what we want at 7 months. We travel in March every year and then in either September, October, or December.

I was very happy with the refurb. We'll be back. Sadly I hated it before though so I avoided until the interior changed.

I have RR left on my list but spent tons of time with a friend. My guys have SSR but we'll change that soon. We almost did RR but the guys haven't done VGF which is our June trip. My kid is 14 and I think we've done good at that so far (staying all over)

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well, it isn’t the last choice for some of us. SSR is our home resort and we love it. Fully half of our stays over the last 15 years have been there by choice, not because we couldn’t find somewhere else. Yes, we have also stayed at almost all of the DVC resorts (only BRV, CCV, and Riviera are left), and we really haven’t had any problem getting what we want at 7 months. We travel in March every year and then in either September, October, or December.

It’s always the last to go…if we had to account for EVERY individual opinion…then no judgements could be formed and the forums would have to be shut down.

and don’t you live in Florida? Which means “getting there” is less of a production than bout 90% of the membership?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I was very happy with the refurb. We'll be back. Sadly I hated it before though so I avoided until the interior changed.

I have RR left on my list but spent tons of time with a friend. My guys have SSR but we'll change that soon. We almost did RR but the guys haven't done VGF which is our June trip. My kid is 14 and I think we've done good at that so far (staying all over)

Our four have stayed at all wdw locations several times…but I draw the line at the golden nugget…I mean “RR”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Increasing points per unit? Do you mean resort or room types?

SSR is lower than BCV and BWV if you mean per room type. The latter two are similar to BRV and CCV. I consider those the middle ground. The preferred with SSR is just below that with standard similar to OKW. BLT is above middle with VGF and PVB similar. For the life of me I cannot recall if RR is just above or below that.

SSR is last to book because of the pure number of rooms. BCV is rather tiny. BWV has the issue that all 2 bedrooms are lock offs so it messes with that. They are not gone as fast tbh as I have booked there many times. But they book due to location as well BCV for that and the fact there are few rooms to book. Value of rooms is relative. I think OKW or SSR studios are top value. Both CCV and BRV also have lower room numbers. PVB is high in points but lots of rooms so usually easier to get. VGF also lacks actual rooms but that'll improve for studios this summer.

I mean they charge more for the rooms as they built. Saratoga should be the same as okw (before they started tinkering with the charts)…it’s shouldn’t be as close to beach club or boardwalk as it is. This is common sense. You can walk, boat, ski lift to two parks from there…the amenities are better too…
Not rocket science there.

then each new spot - save DAKL where they knew they had acceptance issues - ups the ante each time. Is “copper creek” more than “Boulder ridge?”. I assume it is…which makes zero sense.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Is “copper creek” more than “Boulder ridge?”

Dollars per point or points per night? Points per night is basically the same.

 

[correcaminos]

I mean they charge more for the rooms as they built. Saratoga should be the same as okw (before they started tinkering with the charts)…it’s shouldn’t be as close to beach club or boardwalk as it is. This is common sense. You can walk, boat, ski lift to two parks from there…the amenities are better too…
Not rocket science there.

then each new spot - save DAKL where they knew they had acceptance issues - ups the ante each time. Is “copper creek” more than “Boulder ridge?”. I assume it is…which makes zero sense.

SSR standard is on par with OKW. The Preferred are higher and rightly so since many love DS. Walking or boating easily is a bonus for sure. I walked 2x in a 2 nigh stay to DS. Next up is AKL. Then BCV. So SSR is not at all close in points to BCV or BWV.

CCV is pretty much on par with BRV. PVB and VGF are same. RR is off but higher than BCV since it is more upscale and has the skyliner.

So no, DVC didn't just keep going up and up in points. They kept them on par based on location and appearance of how fancy it is.

Our four have stayed at all wdw locations several times…but I draw the line at the golden nugget…I mean “RR”

We'll do RR soon. Maybe a short trip. I don't love the grounds. Much like BLT it's very concrete and not as relaxing feeling.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Dollars per point or points per night? Points per night is basically the same.

Points per night…but see below.

SSR standard is on par with OKW. The Preferred are higher and rightly so since many love DS. Walking or boating easily is a bonus for sure. I walked 2x in a 2 nigh stay to DS. Next up is AKL. Then BCV. So SSR is not at all close in points to BCV or BWV.

CCV is pretty much on par with BRV. PVB and VGF are same. RR is off but higher than BCV since it is more upscale and has the skyliner.

So no, DVC didn't just keep going up and up in points. They kept them on par based on location and appearance of how fancy it is.

We'll do RR soon. Maybe a short trip. I don't love the grounds. Much like BLT it's very concrete and not as relaxing feeling.

I’m looking at the point charts now…admittedly for the first time in years…

they have rebalanced the studios on the older sites that closed the gap between them and the newer…I guess that makes sense. The 8 point at old key west no longer exists (now 9)…the 11 Point minimum at Saratoga is now 10 (preferred offset there I’m sure)…and the 12 point at beach club is now 13…

minor tweaks…but changes the overall picture.

I’m glad to see the two wilderness are the same…no reason they shouldn’t be…though 2-3x the purchase price is still laughable.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

It’s always the last to go…if we had to account for EVERY individual opinion…then no judgements could be formed and the forums would have to be shut down.

and don’t you live in Florida? Which means “getting there” is less of a production than bout 90% of the membership?

We live in Maryland. Yes, used to live in Orlando in the late 70’s, early 80’s. Panama City as well for years courtesy of the Air Force. We bought in when we lived near San Antonio.

We love SSR because we are older, no young kids, prefer quieter stays, and parks aren’t a must do every trip. We are probably not a typical DVC member.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

SSR standard is on par with OKW. The Preferred are higher and rightly so since many love DS. Walking or boating easily is a bonus for sure. I walked 2x in a 2 nigh stay to DS. Next up is AKL. Then BCV. So SSR is not at all close in points to BCV or BWV.

CCV is pretty much on par with BRV. PVB and VGF are same. RR is off but higher than BCV since it is more upscale and has the skyliner.

So no, DVC didn't just keep going up and up in points. They kept them on par based on location and appearance of how fancy it is.

We'll do RR soon. Maybe a short trip. I don't love the grounds. Much like BLT it's very concrete and not as relaxing feeling.

We always stay SSR standard in the Grandstand section. Perfect for how we vacation there.

We’ll do RR eventually, but it’s last on the list, and probably for a shorter long weekend stay, instead of the 8-9 day normal stay.