Do you think we'll ever get another original, non-IP attraction at WDW?

Po'Rich

Well-Known Member
Even those tethered to IPs are practically untethered (if that makes any sense), Splash Mountain (the general public hasn't seen the source material), Tower of Terror (it could sooo work without that IP).
I would say Splash Mountain & Tower of Terror are very loosely tethered to IP. Very few people ride ToT because they are big Twilight Zone fans, and many people don't even know the underlying IP of Splash. Those are great rides - that's why people ride them. I think the IP on those rides is not forced and not overwhelming.

I see this differently. And, as such, I think both are very definitely IP. It's not a matter of whether or not the audience knows the original source or not. IP attractions borrow from another storytelling source to present the story of the attraction. Non-IP equates to a completely original story.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
No, 100% incorrect. You couldn't be more wrong. Tower of Terror is popular because it contains a 13 story drop!

That is an opinion and not “100%” anything...That’s a bit of a reach. It’s ok to disagree without retribution.

Some days you get the bear and some days the bear gets you.

Now if you’ll excuse me...jim Cramer is on.
 

Tim Lohr

Well-Known Member
Most of the "non IP" attractions were ones created by Walt Disney and his original group of animators turned Imagineers, like Marc Davis, Claude Coats, ect... people who had 30 plus years experience making successful motion pictures before they got into creating rides. It seems like today the Marc Davis/Clause Coats types have been replaced by George Lucas/James Cameron/Stan Lee types. The Disney Company is simply trusting this new generation of successful film makers to create the attractions for it's current generation of guests. I think in part that's why they currently do things the way they do, because Walt Disney and his original guys are no longer with us, to not only to create the attractions, but also, Disneyland was a TV show before it was a theme park, and Uncle Walt and his guys would use that show to introduce and "hype" those "non IP" rides to people. The Pirates of the Caribbean and Haunted Mansion were already famous years before they opened, so famous that people freaked out when WDW opened without the Pirates of the Caribbean ride. My parents grew watching that show and loving it so much so they took me to WDW, and I loved it so much that I take my kids... so those "non IP" rides have a legacy and sentimental value that has built up over the past few decades and generations.

That being said, Expedition Everest is only about 12 years old, it's a shame it's broken, but it is a new generation, "original" ride, that seems to be pretty popular. The advantage of building a ride around an already popular movie IP is simply that they already "know" it's "popular", it's a "safe bet" to build something people already know and like, and will also probably buy something in the gift shop on the way out, and that is tough to argue with from a business stand point. I don't think it's completely out of the question, but I think the massive failure of California Adventure Version 1 probably scared them off from trying anything "new" for a while, and the success of Carsland, Avatarland, Toy Storyland and the anticipation Star Wars Land and Marvel Land is also pretty hard to argue with. It seems like at the moment they are "propping up" the "non Castle" parks with popular Movie IPs, because it's a safe bet that Frozen, Ratatouille, and Guardians of the Galaxy will get people in the door at Epcot. At some point there's no reason to switch gears and try something new again, and they now use the internet and YouTube to hype "coming attractions" the same way the did with the old Sunday night "Disneyland" shows... it just seems to me, that at the moment, they aren't taking any chances on anything "new" or unproven, and they are also trying to expand the "Disney brand" beyond the core group of fans who grew up with the old Sunday night Disney shows, because there's a lot more people in the world today who know who Darth Vader is than know who Mike Fink is... although I personally miss Mike Fink
 

TwilightZone

Well-Known Member
What I find interesting, and trust me I look around, non ubers don't care about IP unless if it is too un-disney. So some of them are skeptical about marvel land right now for this reason,
 

MickeyMan36

Active Member
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JIMINYCR

Well-Known Member
Walt Disney was adamantly committed to building themepark attractions from scratch...because to him they were “original stories”

He only did the castle mockups and original rides in disneyland because he needed the bank funding and tv contract with abc and had to give them IP to use/bank upon.

To say disney would support all IP Attractions...let alone not conforming to a theme in his parks...might be the least appropriate characterizarion of walt disney ever.

I responded to the OP's question and a followup response. Its my opinion, you may disagree but I never said Walt would support ALL IP attractions and NEVER claimed Walt didnt conform to a theme. His park creation was not completely original. Dont try to gin up your claim by changing peoples words to fit your narrative.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I responded to the OP's question and a followup response. Its my opinion, you may disagree but I never said Walt would support ALL IP attractions and NEVER claimed Walt didnt conform to a theme. His park creation was not completely original. Dont try to gin up your claim by changing peoples words to fit your narrative.

I’m not trying to gin up anything...

And this is a difference of opinions. What this also is...is what always happens when the depth goes below the surface of “nobody does it like it disney!” On any topic. Those that don’t like it cannot switch it off. Objectivity is the enemy.

The use of IP is being questioned...and that’s a “no-no”. And then it goes on for pages and pages.

If you wish to debate the historical accuracy of walt Disney’s motivations...it’s been chronicled in interviews with him, those that worked long after him, and countless researched books...paints the picture that he was resistant to duplicating anything...and liked to be seen as a trailblazer and master story teller. That would indicate he would not be particularly favorable to IP overlaid attraction...unless of course it was couple with major technological advance. That includes tiring of the princess genre prior to sleeping beauty and not wanting a magic kingdom to be built in Orlando at all...because it was old.

So is that where we’re headed (tech advance)? Because that is what we should watch. The IP is secondary to that...don’t really need more Under the Seas. Or alien swirling saucers (a case where the IP fits way less than the original...making it a bad clone)

I’m particularly watching this milennuum falcon ride...is it gonna play like an FOP 2.0? Or take a significant step?

I like to see what happens.

I also like it when the discussion has a lot of view points - backed with reasonable conclusions - on a forum.

That seems to be a problem here on this thread. I like to be shown a case...make me a case.

But in the scrum you have to go get the pellet...not stand on the sidelines and watch while wearing a mickey T-shirt talking about how great “Wishes” is...
 

JIMINYCR

Well-Known Member
So make your point but dont add to or change what others write in their posts. The points you make may be valid but I dont enjoy being replied to and accused of making statments I never made.
Yes Walt wanted to be original and he did interview saying he didnt want to do what others had done. But the fact is if you look at his DL park it was not completely original and there were attractions based on his created films and cartoons that drew guests in because of their connections to them. And no one can say what Walt would or wouldnt do in this day asd age to keep his parks competitive.
 

ThatMouse

Well-Known Member
I don't think IP is the problem. We specifically do not want movie themed attractions at EPCOT. Everywhere else it's ok, even AK, because that place is a mess anyway. Strangely enough the #1 place to put movie rides (Hollywood UnStudios) is a giant mess at the moment. But MK is actually 95% perfect with the only thing missing is a nighttime parade and beer.

Recent additions not based on movies:
Rivers of Light, Soarn', Mission Space, Test Track, Norway's stave church, use of Figment to mascot events.
 

MickeyMan36

Active Member
I’m not trying to gin up anything...

And this is a difference of opinions. What this also is...is what always happens when the depth goes below the surface of “nobody does it like it disney!” On any topic. Those that don’t like it cannot switch it off. Objectivity is the enemy.

The use of IP is being questioned...and that’s a “no-no”. And then it goes on for pages and pages.

If you wish to debate the historical accuracy of walt Disney’s motivations...it’s been chronicled in interviews with him, those that worked long after him, and countless researched books...paints the picture that he was resistant to duplicating anything...and liked to be seen as a trailblazer and master story teller. That would indicate he would not be particularly favorable to IP overlaid attraction...unless of course it was couple with major technological advance. That includes tiring of the princess genre prior to sleeping beauty and not wanting a magic kingdom to be built in Orlando at all...because it was old.

So is that where we’re headed (tech advance)? Because that is what we should watch. The IP is secondary to that...don’t really need more Under the Seas. Or alien swirling saucers (a case where the IP fits way less than the original...making it a bad clone)

I’m particularly watching this milennuum falcon ride...is it gonna play like an FOP 2.0? Or take a significant step?

I like to see what happens.

I also like it when the discussion has a lot of view points - backed with reasonable conclusions - on a forum.

That seems to be a problem here on this thread. I like to be shown a case...make me a case.

But in the scrum you have to go get the pellet...not stand on the sidelines and watch while wearing a mickey T-shirt talking about how great “Wishes” is...
I see all sides. I get it. Seeing Guardians at Epcot is a little weird in my opinion. But I seem to be ok with Frozen and maybe Ratatouille. I’m nervous about SW Land. I think SW has jumped the shark.

On another note, I’m that guy who likes Wishes better. Is that weird?
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
So make your point but dont add to or change what others write in their posts. The points you make may be valid but I dont enjoy being replied to and accused of making statments I never made.
Yes Walt wanted to be original and he did interview saying he didnt want to do what others had done. But the fact is if you look at his DL park it was not completely original and there were attractions based on his created films and cartoons that drew guests in because of their connections to them. And no one can say what Walt would or wouldnt do in this day asd age to keep his parks competitive.

That was a necessary financial decision. A lot of the money came from a tv development deal with abc and loan from Bank of America.

Walt didn’t have a choice either way...they were required to cross promote to get about $5,000,000.

So while I’m sure walt Disney would have used Ip...we know from all historical accounts he detested repetitive projects.

So if he had lived to 130...and not bankrupted or been forced out (I have no doubt he would have...probably by the mid 70’s)...what would he done with IP?

The minimum conservative guess would be to limit it and try for new story based attractions.

What does that look like? (Hint: look for it in Orlando)
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I don't think IP is the problem. We specifically do not want movie themed attractions at EPCOT. Everywhere else it's ok, even AK, because that place is a mess anyway. Strangely enough the #1 place to put movie rides (Hollywood UnStudios) is a giant mess at the moment. But MK is actually 95% perfect with the only thing missing is a nighttime parade and beer.

Recent additions not based on movies:
Rivers of Light, Soarn', Mission Space, Test Track, Norway's stave church, use of Figment to mascot events.

The biggest problems with the management or lack thereof are all in Epcot.

Frozen - standby queue aside - should not be there. Can of worms. It still sticks out way more than Nemo and will much more than ratatuoille...because at least they have integrity to the base subject of the pavilion.

And guardians is the big one...it should not be there...it’s an obvious Hail Mary because they are more than flat footed.

And why are they so flat footed? Beyond the obvious - no need to do anything other than build more permanent festival booths - is that mgm could be a catastrophic problem because they just aren’t building enough to handle the crowd.
I hope I’m wrong...but I’m not usually about operations stuff

People are not giving this enough play (I personally believe Disney knows and they are scared/ignoring it one year out)...you can’t put 5,000,000 extra a year in that place. There is literally no where to stand. And if they have two 5 hour waits for rides in the back...are the other 10,000s of thousand of daily influx gonna be content to stand outside in a packed street and “appreciate the detail of the rockwork?”

Hell no. We’re mining pyrite.

And before it’s said:
1. Yes...it’s my opinoon
2. Yes...i hope to heavs I’m wrong. 100%
 

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