Do we lose track of the fact that WDW is really (in essence) for kids?

[Matt_Black]

Don't necessarily blame management, when it's representative of a greater cultural shift as a whole. Parents are getting arrested now for letting their children play a block from home unattended, the HORROR.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Don't necessarily blame management, when it's representative of a greater cultural shift as a whole. Parents are getting arrested now for letting their children play a block from home unattended, the HORROR.

Heaven forbid Disney hold higher standards than Walmart.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Walt also came up with original attractions that appealed to adults: Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Tiki Birds (u can't deny the idea behind it), Country Bear Jamboree. Do adults really look forward to Pixar rides? It should be more than just the smile on your kid's face.

What original attractions are they coming up with these days?

I think if most of the "old timers" could get their heads out of the very cloudy past and see 7DMT for what it is, everyone would be a lot happier. They have not built a ride in the recent past that is so designed for both kids and adults that it is incredible how much it has been dismissed out of hand. Oh, it's too short or it's not thrilling enough. No, but, keeping with the spirit of what Disney (Walt) envisioned it is family friendly and something that everyone can ride and enjoy if they let themselves. But, no... instead it is called a kiddie ride (which, btw, it is not) and not allowed to be acknowledge as a very good effort which it is. It can't be everything to everybody, but, judging from the lines and wait time, I'd say it is going over pretty well with the public.

 

[EnergyKing]

I think if most of the "old timers" could get their heads out of the very cloudy past and see 7DMT for what it is, everyone would be a lot happier. They have not built a ride in the recent past that is so designed for both kids and adults that it is incredible how much it has been dismissed out of hand. Oh, it's too short or it's not thrilling enough. No, but, keeping with the spirit of what Disney (Walt) envisioned it is family friendly and something that everyone can ride and enjoy if they let themselves. But, no... instead it is called a kiddie ride (which, btw, it is not) and not allowed to be acknowledge as a very good effort which it is. It can't be everything to everybody, but, judging from the lines and wait time, I'd say it is going over pretty well with the public.

What's there is good, but it feels like half a ride. IMO, when the witch shows up the ride could've gone into overdrive and taken its riders thru another set piece, darker, scarier. No loops or huge drops or anything, but just more atmosphere and enough to make u want to wait more than 45 mins to ride it again.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I think if most of the "old timers" could get their heads out of the very cloudy past and see 7DMT for what it is, everyone would be a lot happier. They have not built a ride in the recent past that is so designed for both kids and adults that it is incredible how much it has been dismissed out of hand. Oh, it's too short or it's not thrilling enough. No, but, keeping with the spirit of what Disney (Walt) envisioned it is family friendly and something that everyone can ride and enjoy if they let themselves. But, no... instead it is called a kiddie ride (which, btw, it is not) and not allowed to be acknowledge as a very good effort which it is. It can't be everything to everybody, but, judging from the lines and wait time, I'd say it is going over pretty well with the public.

I haven't seen anyone say that 7DMT isn't thrilling enough. And no one expected a 300' launched thrill machine in WDW.

This very tired and factually incorrect argument is getting really old. No one is asking for thrill machines. What people are literally begging for is ambitious.

But just keep screaming that people don't get it, Disney will never build a 400' vertical drop coaster. That is not what people are asking for. And you know it.

People just want Disney to grow a pair.

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

Let's just remember what a good man said....

 

[lazyboy97o]

Disneyland was built by a father for his daughters, who were grown and one married with a child.

In the 1960s an article in National Geographic (or maybe Life) ended with a joke about how one day maybe there will be a Disneyland for children.

Nothing about a city, the heart of the Disney World project, has anything to do with specifically appealing to children.

People go on and on about how more franchises are needed to appeal to children because Walt Disney World was not built for children and for at least three of its four decades was not at all aimed at children. Based on all of this "need" to better appeal to children it seems Walt Disney World has failed miserably if this was its big, long term emphasis.

 

[Goofyernmost]

WDW, for most of it's existence wasn't the Toddler Kingdom. I think most new fans don't get that. They go into Tomorrowland and see Stitch, Buzz, Monsters, Inc and don't understand why we whiners don't understand that WDW is for kids. The WDW I grew up with didn't have a single cartoon based attraction in Tomorrowland. It was Mission to Mars and later Alien Encounter. There was America The Beautiful that became Timekeeper, and If You Had Wings. No toons!

The y replaced the more edgy Mr. Toads with Pooh. And SWSA with Princess Fairytale Hall and 20K Leagues with Ariel.

And now the shallowing of Epcot. Replacing things that have the intellectual depth of Human History with the latest Disney cartoons.

WDW was not made for Toddlers. The current management did that. And since I am not a toddler I am far less interested in WDW than I used to be.

Nice list! You will note though that everyone of those were able to be enjoyed jointly by kids and their parents (with the exception of Alien Encounter being the only one that wasn't toddler friendly). So that would mean just the opposite of what you said. AE was not kid friendly all the rest were from birth to 99.

And who are we kidding Epcot was great, but, intellectual depth? Not even close. Entertaining, yes. Different, yes. But, to use one of the favorite phrases of the G&Ders, not sustainable. Thus we have what we have now. Epcot would not survive with only the few that just had to go to it. Anyone that spent anytime in Epcot previous to the change in concept would know, not by statistics, but, merely by observation, that it had become a place to go to when you tired of the fun stuff. I loved the place, but, I find what is there now to be entertaining and still to a large degree educational, just a little more subtle in it's approach.

Oh, and I cannot let it go. Toad was edgy? A classic roadside carnival, cardboard cutout, day-glow, fun house ride. Edgy? Replaced by a character that kids and adults had actually heard of before, with three dimensional figures, recognizable music and dialog is anything but a step backwards.

Heaven forbid Disney hold higher standards than Walmart.

Let's see... Walmart.. a place where, at least where I live, is always spotless, well stocked, priced reasonably with friendly and helpful employees and one of the most, if not the most, profitable and organized retailer in the world. Damn, must be terrible to be that bad. It actually would be good if Disney Parks were to be up to Walmart Standards especially in the priced reasonably department.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

Disneyland was built by a father for his daughters, who were grown and one married with a child.

In the 1960s an article in National Geographic (or maybe Life) ended with a joke about how one day maybe there will be a Disneyland for children.

Nothing about a city, the heart of the Disney World project, has anything to do with specifically appealing to children.

People go on and on about how more franchises are needed to appeal to children because Walt Disney World was not built for children and for at least three of its four decades was not at all aimed at children. Based on all of this "need" to better appeal to children it seems Walt Disney World has failed miserably if this was its big, long term emphasis.

Maybe its the fact there is such an emphasis on food and booze anymore. Oh and building Timeshares...Im sure Ol Walt would be so proud of them

 

[Goofyernmost]

I haven't seen anyone say that 7DMT isn't thrilling enough. And no one expected a 300' launched thrill machine in WDW.

This very tired and factually incorrect argument is getting really old. No one is asking for thrill machines. What people are literally begging for is ambitious.

But just keep screaming that people don't get it, Disney will never build a 400' vertical drop coaster. That is not what people are asking for. And you know it.

People just want Disney to grow a pair.

If I had a nickel for every time that ride was disgustingly described as a "kiddie ride" D ticket, I'd have more then enough money to make a visit to WDW and stay at the Grand Floridian. If you have never seen that statement made, they you have not been paying attention.

Disney's mission statement is not to be the one with the big pair. They are meant to be, by conception, a family park of entertainment based on things other then adrenalin overload. There are plenty of other places for that to be the primary focus. Disney's success came from being different and palatable for everyone. Yet, all of those that want Disney to be like it always was in the past, want that particular fact to be overlooked.

 

[lazyboy97o]

If I had a nickel for every time that ride was disgustingly described as a "kiddie ride" D ticket, I'd have more then enough money to make a visit to WDW and stay at the Grand Floridian. If you have never seen that statement made, they you have not been paying attention.

Disney's mission statement is not to be the one with the big pair. They are meant to be, by conception, a family park of entertainment based on things other then adrenalin overload. There are plenty of other places for that to be the primary focus. Disney's success came from being different and palatable for everyone. Yet, all of those that want Disney to be like it always was in the past, want that particular fact to be overlooked.

Being a kiddie ride is not directly related to thrill.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Being a kiddie ride is not directly related to thrill.

What does then? Are you saying that adults have to have adult content to enjoy something. If it doesn't have blood or adult activities, it is not worth the effort, because Disney Parks are for adults and they are still acting like the kids matter? And in Fantasyland, of all places. What were they thinking?

I am 67 years old and I remember Snow White and the 7 Dwarfs and enjoyed the ride immensely. The ride through the mine was absolutely mind bending and I, along with everyone else sang Hi Ho all the way up the hill along side the walking dwarfs. And still had enough "thrill" to make it a little exhilarating without being heart stopping.

 

[Andrew C]

Being a kiddie ride is not directly related to thrill.

Really? In this case they are not related? Then what the heck does one mean when they call 7DMT kiddie?

 

[ChrisFL]

Nice list! You will note though that everyone of those were able to be enjoyed jointly by kids and their parents (with the exception of Alien Encounter being the only one that wasn't toddler friendly). So that would mean just the opposite of what you said. AE was not kid friendly all the rest were from birth to 99.

And who are we kidding Epcot was great, but, intellectual depth? Not even close. Entertaining, yes. Different, yes. But, to use one of the favorite phrases of the G&Ders, not sustainable. Thus we have what we have now. Epcot would not survive with only the few that just had to go to it. Anyone that spent anytime in Epcot previous to the change in concept would know, not by statistics, but, merely by observation, that it had become a place to go to when you tired of the fun stuff. I loved the place, but, I find what is there now to be entertaining and still to a large degree educational, just a little more subtle in it's approach.

So you're saying that the original EPCOT Center didn't have intellectual depth?

 

[lazyboy97o]

What does then? Are you saying that adults have to have adult content to enjoy something. If it doesn't have blood or adult activities, it is not worth the effort, because Disney Parks are for adults and they are still acting like the kids matter? And in Fantasyland, of all places. What were they thinking?

I am 67 years old and I remember Snow White and the 7 Dwarfs and enjoyed the ride immensely. The ride through the mine was absolutely mind bending and I, along with everyone else sang Hi Ho all the way up the hill along side the walking dwarfs. And still had enough "thrill" to make it a little exhilarating without being heart stopping.

Nope. Ambition, as was already stated, would be what pushes an attraction beyond the kiddie category.

Really? In this case they are not related? Then what the heck does one mean when they call 7DMT kiddie?

Thrill is related to Seven Dwarfs Mine Train because it is primarily within the category of thrill ride. The primary focus of the attraction is its visceral sensation. That doesn't mean being a faster coaster is the only way to push it out of the kiddie category. Show scenes, what are primarily lamented, could also do that.

 

[danlb_2000]

I've told this story before, but I think it applies here....

I am in my 40's and a couple years ago my wife and I visited Disneyland. She wanted to go on Splash but I couldn't get over my fear of the drop (I have since conquered that, but that's a different story). So while she went on Splash I went over to Tom Sawyer Island and had a ball going through all the tunnels and caves!

 

[Goofyernmost]

Nope. Ambition, as was already stated, would be what pushes an attraction beyond the kiddie category.


Thrill is related to Seven Dwarfs Mine Train because it is primarily within the category of thrill ride. The primary focus of the attraction is its visceral sensation. That doesn't mean being a faster coaster is the only way to push it out of the kiddie category. Show scenes, what are primarily lamented, could also do that.

Who's ambition? I don't remember Disney classifying it as anything but a new "exciting" ride in Fantasyland. It's all the armchair imagineers that labeled it. So I'd say it's more desire or wishful thinking then any ambition.

And it is fairly thrilling as well as entertaining. It has great interior show scenes (which are very well done and interesting) and the train ride is the terrain that is depicted from the mine to their house. It's one huge show scene that includes a faster then usual dark ride vehicle. You know that old saying used by the "crew" here... bending down to pick up pennies while the dollars fly over their heads. Well to me that completely describes the way 7DMT is depicted. Everyone is so busy looking for easily definable show scenes that they miss the biggest one of all... the ride itself.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Who's ambition? I don't remember Disney classifying it as anything but a new "exciting" ride in Fantasyland. It's all the armchair imagineers that labeled it. So I'd say it's more desire or wishful thinking then any ambition.

And it is fairly thrilling as well as entertaining. It has great interior show scenes (which are very well done and interesting) and the train ride is the terrain that is depicted from the mine to their house. It's one huge show scene that includes a faster then usual dark ride vehicle. You know that old saying used by the "crew" here... bending down to pick up pennies while the dollars fly over their heads. Well to me that completely describes the way 7DMT is depicted. Everyone is so busy looking for easily definable show scenes that they miss the biggest one of all... the ride itself.

The ride itself being the show scene is what places it in the thrill ride category, a category in which it is lacking. And course you deny the notion of ambition, because you seem to deny the entire notion of quality and showmanship.

 

[Goofyernmost]

The ride itself being the show scene is what places it in the thrill ride category, a category in which it is lacking.

OK, I guess I'm not getting through, so we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[lazyboy97o]

OK, I guess I'm not getting through, so we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Scenery, including existing lush landscape, doesn't turned other coasters into rides with multiple show scenes.