Do the DCL ships have rudders?

[ChuckElias]

I feel like I should know this, after watching the construction videos for the Dream and Fantasy, but I can't remember this detail. There's a TV special about the construction of Royal Caribbean's Freedom of the Seas, and the propellers rotate so the ship doesn't actually need a rudder.

I'm wondering if the Fantasy uses that technology or if it uses the traditional screws and rudder. Anybody know for sure?

 

[Disneyfalcon]

You stumped me.

 

[Monty]

Both have rudders.

 

[tahqa]

All four of the Disney ships have traditional propellers and rudders.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

2 props, each with 1 rudder.

The *pods* that do 360 degrees, seem to be having their issues with large ships. On tugs and other smaller vessels they are very effective and reliable.

AKK

 

[tahqa]

The ABB Azipods are usually quite reliable. It's the Rolls-Royce Mermaid Azimuth Thrusters that seem to be having issues.

All of the large Royal Caribbean ships use ABB Azipods (as will their newest class of ships) and while some of the Radiance class did have issues in 2006 as a whole they still have a very good record over-all.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

The ABB Azipods are usually quite reliable. It's the Rolls-Royce Mermaid Azimuth Thrusters that seem to be having issues.

All of the large Royal Caribbean ships use ABB Azipods (as will their newest class of ships) and while some of the Radiance class did have issues in 2006 as a whole they still have a very good record over-all.

Do they know the reason for the issues with the ABB Azipods? I agree, I have not heard of RCCL having any issues, at least not recently.

AKK

 

[wdw71fan]

The recent issues with Carnival Triumph and Elation were both Azipod related failures..

just fyi

 

[tahqa]

Do they know the reason for the issues with the ABB Azipods? I agree, I have not heard of RCCL having any issues, at least not recently.

AKK

AFAIK Serenenade of the Sea's issues were with one of the bearings affecting cruising speed. Freedom of the Seas left its shipyard with bad bearings and had to have one azipod serviced in Germany before continuing on to Miami for her maiden voyage.

The recent issues with Carnival Triumph and Elation were both Azipod related failures..

just fyi

Carnival Triumph does NOT have azipods and her problems were NOT propulsion related. Carnival Elation was the first cruise ship to have azipods, has the first of the larger azipod designs and it's probably time for maintenance on them.

Bearing-related problems while in use

While the smaller Azipod C design (up to 4.5MW power) seems to have been a largely trouble-free design, during the initial years in service some widely publicised cruise ship service disruptions with the bigger Azipod V design have occurred, see e.g.[10] After the 2000 incident with the Carnival Paradise the root cause of the problems with the propeller shaft bearing was found and a modification programme was initiated for the fleet of Azipod Vs to take place during their scheduled drydocking, with very favourable results.[11]
The latest design, the Azipod X, incorporates these improvements, with a view to a service interval of five years, and features bearings that can be taken apart and repaired from the inside of the pod while the ship is harboured normally.[12][13] The latest major newbuilds featuring the Azipod XO are the two as yet unnamed 3,250 passenger vessels for the AIDA Cruises, the Celebrity Reflection (2012), the Norwegian Breakaway and the Norwegian Getaway [14][15]
Meanwhile, the competing Rolls-Royce Mermaid pod seemed to suffer from recurrent reliability problems despite redesign efforts, resulting in prolonged legal battles that were settled in 2012.[16][17]

 

[wdw71fan]

AFAIK Serenenade of the Sea's issues were with one of the bearings affecting cruising speed. Freedom of the Seas left its shipyard with bad bearings and had to have one azipod serviced in Germany before continuing on to Miami for her maiden voyage.



Carnival Triumph does NOT have azipods and her problems were NOT propulsion related. Carnival Elation was the first cruise ship to have azipods, has the first of the larger azipod designs and it's probably time for maintenance on them.

Bearing-related problems while in use

While the smaller Azipod C design (up to 4.5MW power) seems to have been a largely trouble-free design, during the initial years in service some widely publicised cruise ship service disruptions with the bigger Azipod V design have occurred, see e.g.[10] After the 2000 incident with the Carnival Paradise the root cause of the problems with the propeller shaft bearing was found and a modification programme was initiated for the fleet of Azipod Vs to take place during their scheduled drydocking, with very favourable results.[11]
The latest design, the Azipod X, incorporates these improvements, with a view to a service interval of five years, and features bearings that can be taken apart and repaired from the inside of the pod while the ship is harboured normally.[12][13] The latest major newbuilds featuring the Azipod XO are the two as yet unnamed 3,250 passenger vessels for the AIDA Cruises, the Celebrity Reflection (2012), the Norwegian Breakaway and the Norwegian Getaway [14][15]
Meanwhile, the competing Rolls-Royce Mermaid pod seemed to suffer from recurrent reliability problems despite redesign efforts, resulting in prolonged legal battles that were settled in 2012.[16][17]

yes, my mistake... google research killed me

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

AFAIK Serenenade of the Sea's issues were with one of the bearings affecting cruising speed. Freedom of the Seas left its shipyard with bad bearings and had to have one azipod serviced in Germany before continuing on to Miami for her maiden voyage.



Carnival Triumph does NOT have azipods and her problems were NOT propulsion related. Carnival Elation was the first cruise ship to have azipods, has the first of the larger azipod designs and it's probably time for maintenance on them.

Bearing-related problems while in use

While the smaller Azipod C design (up to 4.5MW power) seems to have been a largely trouble-free design, during the initial years in service some widely publicised cruise ship service disruptions with the bigger Azipod V design have occurred, see e.g.[10] After the 2000 incident with the Carnival Paradise the root cause of the problems with the propeller shaft bearing was found and a modification programme was initiated for the fleet of Azipod Vs to take place during their scheduled drydocking, with very favourable results.[11]
The latest design, the Azipod X, incorporates these improvements, with a view to a service interval of five years, and features bearings that can be taken apart and repaired from the inside of the pod while the ship is harboured normally.[12][13] The latest major newbuilds featuring the Azipod XO are the two as yet unnamed 3,250 passenger vessels for the AIDA Cruises, the Celebrity Reflection (2012), the Norwegian Breakaway and the Norwegian Getaway [14][15]
Meanwhile, the competing Rolls-Royce Mermaid pod seemed to suffer from recurrent reliability problems despite redesign efforts, resulting in prolonged legal battles that were settled in 2012.[16][17]

See you learn something every day.....thanks for the details.

Now that you mention FOS, I do remember a article about the bearings.....that was when she was brand new??

As you can tell form the avi, my tankers were all single screw.

Is this your area of work? expertize?

AKK

 

[ChuckElias]

Now that you mention FOS, I do remember a article about the bearings.....that was when she was brand new??

Yes, this was actually part of the TV show that I mentioned in the original post of this thread. When they out for sea trials, they discovered the problem and had to return to dry dock before even making the maiden voyage.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Yes, this was actually part of the TV show that I mentioned in the original post of this thread. When they out for sea trials, they discovered the problem and had to return to dry dock before even making the maiden voyage.

That's the one!, thanks!

They had to dry dock her to replace the bearings.

AKK

 

[tahqa]

Yes, this was actually part of the TV show that I mentioned in the original post of this thread. When they out for sea trials, they discovered the problem and had to return to dry dock before even making the maiden voyage.

Yes, she spent 8 days in Hamburg, Germany, getting the bearings on one azipod fixed before she was officially handed over to Royal Caribbean.

Luckily the new ABB Azipods allow for bearings to be replaced now without having to go into drydock.

Back to the Disney ships. They are all traditional screws and rudders and there is a trade-off involved in shafts vs pods. Shaft issues can usually be worked while in port without having to drydock the ship. However, even with articulated rudders, they are usually not as maneuverable as ships with pods. Also, having a shaft dictates placement of engines. With a pod there is more freedom to engine location. Traditional shafts are cheaper than pods. All in all it's just decisions that are made during the design process.

 

[ChuckElias]

Luckily the new ABB Azipods allow for bearings to be replaced now without having to go into drydock.

I bet that's a pretty amazing process.

However, even with articulated rudders, they are usually not as maneuverable as ships with pods.

I would guess that the side thrusters on the Disney ships help compensate for this? Or are the side thrusters only useful in very tight quarters where the rudder wouldn't really help anyway? (Obviously, I know less than zero about these mechanical questions, so please forgive me if that was a stupid question.)

 

[tahqa]

I bet that's a pretty amazing process.

I would guess that the side thrusters on the Disney ships help compensate for this? Or are the side thrusters only useful in very tight quarters where the rudder wouldn't really help anyway? (Obviously, I know less than zero about these mechanical questions, so please forgive me if that was a stupid question.)

Thrusters are really only useful at low speeds -- generally no more than 3 or 4 knots. They can exert some force up to about 10 knots but beyond about 5 knots the rudders are far more effective at turning the ship. So the thrusters are only used for docking and low speed maneuvering.

The Dream class ships have five thrusters -- three in the front and two in the back. If you look at the ship's hull you'll see symbols that look like an 'X' inside of a circle. Those symbols indicate the locations of the thrusters.

The Oasis class ships (largest cruise ships in the world) have four bow thrusters. The azipods take the place of the stern thrusters.

Generally, any properly designed modern cruise ship can pivot in place and parallel park with precision regardless of whether or not they have pods.

 

[DISNEY FANTASY]

Got to say, there is one thing about the RCI ships I like and it is the Azipods, it does make for a very smooth ride and fuel efficient, we had a tour of the bridge on RCI and they sung the praises of the Azipods.

 

[Ralphlaw]

Just got off the Fantasy a couple weeks ago, and I'm utterly impressed with how fast she goes in and out of port. Those side thrusters are pretty impressive, but the Azipods, when working properly must be even more so. They just seem to be slightly newer technology with more moving parts and a few bugs to be worked out.

Nevertheless, a couple of big guys with long sticks would probably be handy, but I know less than even less than zero, more or less. To me, the technology is part of the fun of the cruise, and I really really really wish there was a way to take a tour of the guts of the ship. I'm no mechanic, but I am, . . . well . . a guy.

 

[rick3236]

Just got off the Fantasy a couple weeks ago, and I'm utterly impressed with how fast she goes in and out of port. Those side thrusters are pretty impressive, but the Azipods, when working properly must be even more so. They just seem to be slightly newer technology with more moving parts and a few bugs to be worked out.

Nevertheless, a couple of big guys with long sticks would probably be handy, but I know less than even less than zero, more or less. To me, the technology is part of the fun of the cruise, and I really really really wish there was a way to take a tour of the guts of the ship. I'm no mechanic, but I am, . . . well . . a guy.

It would be cool to take a tour of the ship.

 

[Phonedave]

It would be cool to take a tour of the ship.

I wonder what the limitations on where you can go are? If they could even do a tour? However it would be something I would be VERY interested in.

My grandfather was a marine machinst "back in the day" and as a kid somtimes I would get to go to the Bethlehem Steel Shipyards in Hoboken where he worked and see all the ships in drydock. BethSteel Hoboken yards are gone, and so is my Grandfather, but I still have an interest in the workings of ships.

-dave