Do FastPasses create longer waits or do they not have any affect at all?

[G00fyDad]

I always thought you had to pay a non discounted room rate to get free dining. In your case, you already booked (at whatever room rate) then got free dining. That’s excellent and for you literally free. I did not know it worked that way. I stand corrected. Thanks for the info.

If I am remembering correctly (and I may not be) they used to offer a couple of free dining during the year and one of them was attached to a rack rate promotion. The other one was the one we took (sometime in late Fall) and it was attached to packages.

 

[rreading]

If Disney had their way, they would make attractions 100% Fastpass and tell you which attractions to ride in which order. Spreading out capacity to underutilized facilities is still the end-goal here. The number of people in which line isn't really consequential at the end of the day.

It's an interesting point. I suppose that the point would be that they want Small World to have a queue so that each boat is always filled to capacity.

It really all circles back to supply and demand. If the parks were not filling max ride capacity in the 90s, FP+ fixed that. Now that the increased demand has filled all the queues (even Peoplemover!) they need to 1) raise prices or 2) limit attendance with reduced park reservations or 3) increase ride capacity . In the absence of those changes, the additional people beyond the park ride capacity will be wandering, eating or shopping.

It would not be difficult to total the THRC of all the rides at MK to determine how many people in the parks will cause a queue backlog (irrespective of FP)

 

[el_super]

It really all circles back to supply and demand. If the parks were not filling max ride capacity in the 90s, FP+ fixed that. Now that the increased demand has filled all the queues (even Peoplemover!) they need to 1) raise prices or 2) limit attendance with reduced park reservations or 3) increase ride capacity . In the absence of those changes, the additional people beyond the park ride capacity will be wandering, eating or shopping.

The biggest number that drives their operation is the Rides per Capita (RPC) figure. Their guest surveys tell them that people feel the most value if they are able to see at least 10 attractions in a day, so that's the figure they try to aim for. Not everyone can ride the top-ten greatest hits in the park, since most of those attractions daily capacity is under what the park's attendance cap is, so they have to spread them around to the smaller attractions to still give them a sense of value.

Fastpass helped with this to a point. I remember way back in the paper Fastpass days at Disneyland, a Space Mountain Fastpass would spit out a ticket with a "Please go visit Honey I Shrunk the Audience" note on it. They wanted to spread out the demand to smaller attractions, without everyone getting a Space Mountain Fastpass, just jumping in line for Indiana Jones.

You're right though, they are pretty much at the point where the system can't grow any longer, and they are either going to have to substantially raise prices, or change the demand model in some way to accommodate more guests. Adding capacity might not really work either. Having TRON next to Space Mountain at the MK sounds like a terrible idea really when you think about people getting a Fastpass for one, and instantly hopping in the standby line for the other.

 

[Djsfantasi]

Ummmmmm, nope. A standby line moves faster without FP interruptions than it does with them. It’s that simple.

But there will be more people in the Standby lines, eliminating any decrease in wait times possible by eliminating FP+. If 4-7FP+ to every Standby person, your wait time could theoretically increase 5x to 7x…

 

[Djsfantasi]

I for one, love the discourse here lol. I understand where you are coming from, I disagree, but you certainly have made me think about the complexities more thoroughly. Do you at least agree that a standby line with 1000 people in, same number of people in standby either way, it will move faster without fastpass+?

Yes, but without FP+, there will be an additional 4,00 to 7,000 guests in line.

With FP+, you can experience more in the parks increasing your satisfaction.

Disney is NOT a destination that can be fully experienced without investing in advance planning. Don’t complain if you can’t or won’t do that planning. Don’t complain if you want to sleep late. Don’t complain if your exhausted because you go for 10-12 hours a day. I go several times a year, and experience every ride I want with about a 20 minute wait. I rest in the afternoon, at my resort or at a lounge. I am fully satisfied with my experience. And start planning four months in advance at the least.

 

[Disstevefan1]

It would be cool if Disney took the best of the old paper fast pass system and the best of the fast pass plus system.

The good things about the old system:
There was truly limited fast passes given out.
There were fast passes only for attractions that needed fast pass. The rest of the attractions were only standby.

The good things about the new system:
It’s paperless.
The tap points with magic bands.
No need to sprint to the fast pass machines to get in line to get a fast pass and hope they don’t run out before your turn.
You can book your fast pass ahead of time.

So in my mind, the only tweaks to the current system would be:
Truly limited fast passes given out.
And here’s the big one, like in the old system, use Fastpass for only the attractions that need it and return all the other attractions to standby only like it was during the paper fast pass days.

One of things I did not like about the current system is they made EVERY attraction a fast pass attraction even the ones that were historically stand by only. This created an artificial demand for an attraction that was historically standby only and was usually a walk on attraction.

 

[onelove8187]

Yes, but without FP+, there will be an additional 4,00 to 7,000 guests in line.

With FP+, you can experience more in the parks increasing your satisfaction.

Disney is NOT a destination that can be fully experienced without investing in advance planning. Don’t complain if you can’t or won’t do that planning. Don’t complain if you want to sleep late. Don’t complain if your exhausted because you go for 10-12 hours a day. I go several times a year, and experience every ride I want with about a 20 minute wait. I rest in the afternoon, at my resort or at a lounge. I am fully satisfied with my experience. And start planning four months in advance at the least.

You misunderstand me, I am 100% on the side that FP+ is a substantial benefit to everyone who at least uses it minimally. This comment was to help clarify what another poster wasn't clear on, which was making those arguments easily refutable. It is a complex system that is not easily understood without heavy mathematics and data which is not available to outsiders. Most arguments on either side at the moment are simply lacking any proof, since proof is not available. Conceptually, it should come close to maintaining hourly ride capacity limiting a guests total avg wait time (avg. considering combination of FP+ attractions + standby). Of course, the system's benefits scale proportionally with effort.

 

[onelove8187]

I go several times a year, and experience every ride I want with about a 20 minute wait. I rest in the afternoon, at my resort or at a lounge. I am fully satisfied with my experience. And start planning four months in advance at the least.

Also, this is me as well. Although I am usually at the pool for the afternoon .

 

[charisse scully]

The only people that don’t seem to care for FP are the ones who don’t know how to work it.

 

[seanjclarke]

FP+ 100% makes standby lines longer. I know this because I’ve ridden rides that I did not want to ride in order to burn my 3rd FP and try for a fourth. Most noticeably in Epcot with the tiered fastpasses.

So yes, I personally have increased standby lines on rides I wouldn’t otherwise have ridden taking the spot on the ride of someone who actually wanted to ride and making them wait a little bit more.

 

[Snake]

I used to think you could only get 3 FP per day, then I found out you can keep getting more after you use up those first 3 up. The Fast Pass system as it was, was very broken. I watched vids with people getting FP over and over all day long. No wonder all the lines seemed so much longer with the FP system. I hope it never returns, the people that love it are the ones abusing it.

 

[Snake]

The only people that don’t seem to care for FP are the ones who don’t know how to work it.

When you've been going to Disney for 30 years an know how long a line should take, then you know how bad FP makes ALL the lines. 3 Fast Passes do not make up for making ALL the most popular attraction rides x3-x4 longer.

 

[Snake]

I'm so glad that fastpass doesn't exist right now otherwise there'd be extremely long wait times at Disney attractions.

(Right now)
View attachment 566782

If Fast Pass was around you would multiply those wait times, too many noobs dont know better.

 

[Snake]

Yes, but without FP+, there will be an additional 4,00 to 7,000 guests in line.

With FP+, you can experience more in the parks increasing your satisfaction.

Disney is NOT a destination that can be fully experienced without investing in advance planning. Don’t complain if you can’t or won’t do that planning. Don’t complain if you want to sleep late. Don’t complain if your exhausted because you go for 10-12 hours a day. I go several times a year, and experience every ride I want with about a 20 minute wait. I rest in the afternoon, at my resort or at a lounge. I am fully satisfied with my experience. And start planning four months in advance at the least.

No there would not, human behavior would not have 4000 guests in line, if a line gets long and you can physically see it's long, LOTS of people move on to another ride with intention to comeback. This keeps lines to sane levels, FP makes an invisible line you cannot see, so those waiting in stand by get stuck while the invisible line of Fast Passes cuts in front making line time double and triple without them knowing the line is 4000 people long, because its invisible an virtual, get it? Case in point, last time we went to Magic Kingdom, no FP covid rules, the line for the Seven Dwarves was just out to the very entrance. With FP this would have been over an hour line, without it was 25min. Imagine just looking at a line for a glance and knowing for certain how long the wait is, not needing a sign or an app to tell you, that's how it used to be. So many people just don't even understand how bad FP makes ALL the lines, they think they need FP, but FP is the reason they need FP. LOL, chicken and the egg here. I keep hearing, 'Good thing we have FP, makes sure we ride all the big rides'. Without FP you could ride ALL the rides no problem, you've just never experienced the lines without it. The Haunted Mansion line should be 10-15 min, no matter what, even if the line is out to the entrance. It is literally the fastest line on the face of the earth, FP messed that up too. When Haunted Mansion isn't 10-15 min all day you know its all jacked up. If all the line times dropped by 2/3rd and they got rid of FP would you do it? That's why people don't want FP back, they know better. Fast Pass only helps you for those Fast Pass rides you have for the day, then all the other ride times are longer, because of the Fast Passes everyone else has and you don't. So you ride 3-5 rides faster, then the rest of the day, say 10-12 rides you wait longer than you would. Which ones better? 3 rides faster, 12 rides slow, big rides EPIC slow, or 15 rides moderate. No line should be longer than 30 min except maybe the brand newest ride in all of WDW, with fast pass I've seen almost 2 hours for average rides.

 

[jaklgreen]

Going off of my personal experience, YES, having a FP line makes the standby line longer. I have gone 3 times since reopen and have done more rides without FP then I usually do with FP. I can't wait in long lines due to medical reasons. What I experienced was that the lines kept moving for rides that are continuous loaders like PP. The line for Peter Pan was shorter then the line for IASW, which was shocking. I think that real issue is that they just give out way too many FPs per hour. It seems that they have quietly upped the amount over the years. It used to be that you pretty much walked on with a FP, but for the last several years, you can easily wait 20+ minutes in the FP line.

 

[jaklgreen]

It does if it's free.

This is very circumstantial. It very much depends on your group dynamic, where you are staying, and what room discounts there is. A family of 4 staying at a value hotel that gets free dining can absolutely get their money's worth. Especially if they did a majority of character meals. A couple that got a good room only deal that are not big eaters, it is much better to go with the room discount. Usually the more kids and character meals you do, the better. For me, I usually travel solo and I eat very little. One "normal" sized meal is at least 2 meals for me. I know exactly what I can eat and what I usually order at each restaurant so I am easily able to run the numbers and it always comes out a much better deal to not get the dining plan. If it works for some, great. I just can't consume those quantities of food.

 

[jaklgreen]

The only people that don’t seem to care for FP are the ones who don’t know how to work it.

That is not true at all. I, like many others on here, have been going to the parks on a regular basis for decades. Well before they introduced the original paper FP system. Since I don't live close, I would make my FP selections and used them as well as any others that I got during the day. The issue I have is that they seem to have increased the number of FP that they give away and it has made the FP line much too long, which then makes the stand by line so much longer. I know how to "work the system" but still feel that FP have ruined the lines. There should never be lines that are 3 hours long. I think that you would be surprised at how much shorter the lines would be if there was no FP, even at back to normal capacity.

 

[LittleBuford]

I used to think you could only get 3 FP per day, then I found out you can keep getting more after you use up those first 3 up. The Fast Pass system as it was, was very broken. I watched vids with people getting FP over and over all day long. No wonder all the lines seemed so much longer with the FP system. I hope it never returns, the people that love it are the ones abusing it.

They’re using the system, not abusing it. Disney itself tells you to get more FastPasses after you’re done with your initial three:

Once you redeem your initial set of FastPass+ selections (or the last arrival window has passed), you can make another FastPass+ selection for the same day at an in-park kiosk or using your mobile device, up to park closing. After you redeem the additional FastPass+ pick, you can make more selections (one at a time).​

Selecting More than One FASTPASS+ Attraction | Walt Disney World Resort

Learn if you can select more than one FastPass+ attraction time at Walt Disney World Resort in Florida.

disneyworld.disney.go.com

 

[G00fyDad]

If Fast Pass was around you would multiply those wait times, too many noobs dont know better.

The FP's do not make the lines longer. Done. End of story. If you refuse to see the facts then I cannot help you there. There have been actual studies done (like the TP one) that show that they do not increase the line to any significant amount.

 

[G00fyDad]

FP+ 100% makes standby lines longer. I know this because I’ve ridden rides that I did not want to ride in order to burn my 3rd FP and try for a fourth. Most noticeably in Epcot with the tiered fastpasses.

So yes, I personally have increased standby lines on rides I wouldn’t otherwise have ridden taking the spot on the ride of someone who actually wanted to ride and making them wait a little bit more.

The FP's do not make the lines longer. Done. End of story. If you refuse to see the facts then I cannot help you there. There have been actual studies done (like the TP one) that show that they do not increase the line to any significant amount.